The Sports Illustrated Article

[Alpe d'Huez]

I had a friend who was on the team with Lance. ... I don't remember if he actually said, "don't ever ask me about it again" but that was the obvious implication.

Sounds like he was just another bitter hater who was jealous of Lance.

Seriously, I was like you. I wasn't naive to doping, but hoped in 1999 he was clean in a post-Festina world. By 2001 watching the Postal train smoke everyone at record speeds, and then when the Ferrari allegations came out, I no longer believed.

 

[redtreviso]

Absolutely true. It amazes me when if nothing else you try to be openminded and look at the issue from both sides you suddenly have become a lifelong hater.

For the record i would prefer LA to be as clean as the driven snow. I take no delight in his downfall other than an example being set to future riders that is you cheat you might get away for awhile but eventually the deception will be revealed and you would be better served to play by the rules than give in to the temptation of fame & fortune.

On a personal note, i truly believed LA in his comeback was clean. What opened my eyes that i was naive occurred soon after one of his early TDF wins. I had a friend who was on the team with Lance. A very affable guy and someone who always has a smile on his face and would make Bobke look depressed. I asked him"Boy that must have been great, winning the Tour with Lance?"
that comment immediately wiped the smile off his face and replaced it with a expression that really took me by surprise."Evil eye" would be the closest explanation i can think of. I don't remember if he actually said
"don't ever ask me about it again" but that was the obvious implication.
It went far beyond someone being a pain in the *** or playing their music too loud etc etc. I had just mentioned something that threatened this man's career if he discussed it. I have know this guy for twenty years and never seen him act this way before or since. It took all of five seconds for me to figure out what this person was telling me without speaking, Lance was dirty. It felt not unlike being broadsided by a car, i kind of made it through the next few hours in a daze wondering wtf had just hit me.

I would prefer if this never happened but i can't turn back the clock and pretend it didn't. I guess in some people eyes that makes me a hater, and of course there is no way to convince them otherwise. So be it.
And to the apologists who even now are saying its OK, everyone does it Christopher Bassons never had the stones to be a winner etc etc it reminds me of a friend of mine from England.
When we were riding the train from Milan to Lugano he said
"Say what you will about Mussolini but at least he kept the trains running on time"
personally if i had my druthers i would most definitely prefer to suffer British rail if it meant living under Churchill...

Besides being dirty Lance was always the wear sharp steel cleats to the church softball game and use them on somebody type.

 

[Oldman]

Sounds like he was just another bitter hater who was jealous of Lance.

Seriously, I was like you. I wasn't naive to doping, but hoped in 1999 he was clean in a post-Festina world. By 2001 watching the Postal train smoke everyone at record speeds, and then when the Ferrari allegations came out, I no longer believed.

Horner doesn't talk about the team much now, either.

 

[Nick777]

It is great to hate Lance and stomp on him for the whole day, isn't it. You can only win and built up your (internet) ego or get highly accepted even if you have nothing to deliver.
A win-win situation.
Congrats. You are a true hero who has done an enormous amount for mankind !
Member of a pack of hyenas waiting in great distance for the old brave lion to die and then eat him. Real braveness.

What would you do without Lance, movieboy ? You were totally lost in movies and no one would listen to you. So praise him.
As I once said: If Lance wasn't there he should be invented.
Not for the fanboys or cycling, but for the haters to survive.

The internet-haters - a special breed I study for many years now.
And I found out that all these proud Armstronghaters don't really differ the German Ullrichhaters.
Haters need victims to exist and survive. Targets are exchangeable.

So... you claim that you are not a particularly big Armstrong fan. I'd love to see your posts if you were.

 

[Topangarider]

http://www.myfoxdc.com/dpp/sports/t...t-celebrity-endorsements-of-2010-ncxdc-011811

http://www.businesswire.com/news/ho...strong’s-“Secret-Weapon”-Revealed-FRS-Healthy

Too funny - FRS' “Lance Armstrong Has a Secret” ad campaign captures Armstrong’s passion for training...

Businesswire.com uses this headline: Lance Armstrong’s “Secret Weapon” Revealed in New FRS Healthy Energy Advertising Campaign




Bad timing for FRS

 

[Blakeslee]

I read the article earlier tonight and had two reactions to it: First Armstrong does not come off well in his behavior towards people he perceives as either slighting him or working against him in some way. I find myself really disliking this apparent side of Armstrong's personality which came up in the article as well as in some of the stories in Daniel Coyle's book.

Second I'm starting to feel the likely fallout from this investigation is going to place disproportionate blame on Armstrong for the doping problems in cycling. Armstrong of course in part has himself to blame for this for not being honest about what happened in the past and the aggressive nature with which he has gone after his accusers. That being said the doping problem in cycling is much bigger than Armstrong. Doping was (and unfortunately probably still is) an endemic part of cycling which everyone including the riders, team managers, sponsors, and the governing bodies of the sport should all share a responsibility.

 

[BikeCentric]

Second I'm starting to feel the likely fallout from this investigation is going to place disproportionate blame on Armstrong for the doping problems in cycling. Armstrong of course in part has himself to blame for this for not being honest about what happened in the past and the aggressive nature with which he has gone after his accusers. That being said the doping problem in cycling is much bigger than Armstrong. Doping was (and unfortunately probably still is) an endemic part of cycling which everyone including the riders, team managers, sponsors, and the governing bodies of the sport should all share a responsibility.

I totally agree with you but we all must remember that Armstrong is the one who consciously made himself bigger than the sport. You live by the sword you die by the sword and he's going to reap what he's sown. He's going to take a huge fall, will be scapegoated, and then sadly I think the UCI clown show will go on because I don't think the FDA has the jurisdiction to go after them. I do think that Novitsky will point the finger at them however and maybe it will spark some sort of European investigation of them.

But yeah, untill the UCI is dissolved the WWF cycling show will go on.

 

[Berzin]

Anyone check out the "Outside The Lines" episode today? I only saw a three minute clip from the ESPN website, but I'd like to know what the rest of the program covered as it relates to Sir Lancealot.

 

[compete_clean]

Anyone check out the "Outside The Lines" episode today? I only saw a three minute clip from the ESPN website, but I'd like to know what the rest of the program covered as it relates to Sir Lancealot.

That show is one of the best sports related programs you will see. They do an excellent job. Interested to see it.

 

[Cobblestoned]

lol
The sheit hit the black fan....so what !

Lance Armstrong Does Drugs...SO WHAT! HE's AMERICAN THO!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmu1CZEN6Yk

 

[veganrob]

lol
The sheit hit the black fan....so what !

Lance Armstrong Does Drugs...SO WHAT! HE's AMERICAN THO!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmu1CZEN6Yk

That is hilarious. Says it all.

 

[theswordsman]

Rupert Guinness wrote that Bill Stapleton arrived at the Tour Down Under yesterday. The possibility of Federal wiretaps CAN be a pain, I guess. Do you think they have people sweep their offices for "bugs"?

http://www.theage.com.au/sport/cycl...n-armstrong-doping-claims-20110120-19y1y.html

 

[armstrong]

I haven't had a chance to check the whole thread - but a good article over at the Toronto Star:

http://www.thestar.com/article/924395--kelly-same-old-lance-armstrong-story

Excerpt:

Maybe Lance Armstrong was just born at the wrong time.

If he’d born in, say, 450 B.C., he could’ve spent his time hanging around Athens, denying things exist, and picking up a lot of tutoring work.

“Prove to me that’s a rock,” Athenian Armstrong would tell people.

“Well, I’m holding it. It’s heavy. It’s made of stone. When I smack it into my forehead, it hurts. Yeah, I’m pretty sure it’s a rock, Armstrong.”

“Well, I’m not convinced at all,” Armstrong could say. “What makes you a reliable source on rocks? Have you tested how heavy it is? And where are these tests now? Whose lab did the test? Aristotle’s?! Nobody believes anything that guy says. And besides, he’s had a bone to pick with me for years – he’s European!”

 

[armstrong]

Second I'm starting to feel the likely fallout from this investigation is going to place disproportionate blame on Armstrong for the doping problems in cycling.

I can't see this happening. Armstrong is too much of a deity for this to all be pinned on him. Without a positive test, there will be much of the American public who will still give him the benefit of the doubt.

Even WITH a positive test, folks would still think it was an error or an isolated incident.

Some people still give Rafael Palmeiro the benefit of the doubt. Maybe it really was a tainted B12 injection, and he was clean during his monster baseball years. Sure he didn't get much HOF support, but in the days after his positive test, folks were still wondering if he had doped during his prime years.

I think Armstrong will still have a considerable legion of strong/vocal supporters, even if he's found guilty in the Nowitzky investigation. They'll basically argue it's a witch-hunt guided by money/jealously/ego/whatever-you-want-to-insert-here, and that Armstrong was the victim.

 

[Tim_sleepless]

I totally agree with you but we all must remember that Armstrong is the one who consciously made himself bigger than the sport. You live by the sword you die by the sword and he's going to reap what he's sown. He's going to take a huge fall, will be scapegoated, and then sadly I think the UCI clown show will go on because I don't think the FDA has the jurisdiction to go after them. I do think that Novitsky will point the finger at them however and maybe it will spark some sort of European investigation of them.

Are you paid by the metaphor?

 

[Hawkwood]

Are you paid by the metaphor?

Live by the metaphor, die by the metaphor...

 

[Cobblestoned]

I can't see this happening. Armstrong is too much of a deity for this to all be pinned on him. Without a positive test, there will be much of the American public who will still give him the benefit of the doubt.

Even WITH a positive test, folks would still think it was an error or an isolated incident.

Some people still give Rafael Palmeiro the benefit of the doubt. Maybe it really was a tainted B12 injection, and he was clean during his monster baseball years. Sure he didn't get much HOF support, but in the days after his positive test, folks were still wondering if he had doped during his prime years.

I think Armstrong will still have a considerable legion of strong/vocal supporters, even if he's found guilty in the Nowitzky investigation. They'll basically argue it's a witch-hunt guided by money/jealously/ego/whatever-you-want-to-insert-here, and that Armstrong was the victim.

So you seem to know that he is definately the target.

Any official confirmation or just another wish ?

 

[Cobblestoned]

Live by the metaphor, die by the metaphor...

The metaphor is dead. Long live the metaphor.

 

[fatandfast]

I totally agree with you but we all must remember that Armstrong is the one who consciously made himself bigger than the sport. You live by the sword you die by the sword and he's going to reap what he's sown. He's going to take a huge fall, will be scapegoated, and then sadly I think the UCI clown show will go on because I don't think the FDA has the jurisdiction to go after them. I do think that Novitsky will point the finger at them however and maybe it will spark some sort of European investigation of them.

But yeah, untill the UCI is dissolved the WWF cycling show will go on.

sbs.com.au had some parts of an Armstrong interview. He comes off as scattered and off balance. He got the start money so he has to do the press conf. but his reactions to people asking him about the SI article is dumb..After the 1st question he should have made an all in one statement..instead he calls a guy stupid and comes off like a real putz. The fact that the UCI and the TDU promoters don't have a format that will allow people to get interviewed about cycling instead of doping. If a guy badgered any rider I would pull the press pass off of their neck

 

[Grand Tourist]

I buy the HemAssist & Testosterone stories but I have my doubts about the St Moritz 2003 airport anecdote. Would Armstrong have been daft enough to bring 'gear' through Swiss Customs? The Swiss are notorious for being anal about this kind of thing & surely Armstrong would have assigned this task to a lackey?

Where is all this going to end? I haven't a clue. I don't particularly want to see Armstrong locked up but I do want him run out of pro cycling permamently.

 

[BotanyBay]

Would Armstrong have been daft enough to bring 'gear' through Swiss Customs? The Swiss are notorious for being anal about this kind of thing & surely Armstrong would have assigned this task to a lackey?

Lackeys don't have private jets. Armstrong also liked to keep a tight circle. Even his personal assistant didn't know until he found stuff while cleaning a bathroom. And medical supplies don't exactly jump-out at a customs guy who's been trained to look for bricks of cocaine and little bags of heroin. When they see IV bags and hypodermic needles, they instantly see "legitimate medicine". I'm sure it was easy to snow these guys.

But cops are famous for documenting everything, and I'll bet that a search of the reports for that day will show some mention of the incident. I'm sure that the European media has already requested the documents.

 

[thehog]

I buy the HemAssist & Testosterone stories but I have my doubts about the St Moritz 2003 airport anecdote. Would Armstrong have been daft enough to bring 'gear' through Swiss Customs? The Swiss are notorious for being anal about this kind of thing & surely Armstrong would have assigned this task to a lackey?

Where is all this going to end? I haven't a clue. I don't particularly want to see Armstrong locked up but I do want him run out of pro cycling permamently.

The Swiss anal about drugs? Your kidding me? You can go there and shoot up in a registered "shooting gallery". You can even get yourself killed if you shall choose. Switzerland is free from International law.

Armstrong never ever mentions his apartment in St. Moritz ever. But he went there a lot and brought his drugs through the border before taking them off to France by other means.

Ferrari would visit, the team would assemble there. It was a popular meeting place.

For a long time sporting/UCI drug testing was outlawed. They weren't allowed to perform it. There was certainly zero out of competitiion tests in Switzerland. The Tour de Suisse didn't start drug testing until about 2002.

 

[Grand Tourist]

Lackeys don't have private jets. Armstrong also liked to keep a tight circle. Even his personal assistant didn't know until he found stuff while cleaning a bathroom. And medical supplies don't exactly jump-out at a customs guy who's been trained to look for bricks of cocaine and little bags of heroin. When they see IV bags and hypodermic needles, they instantly see "legitimate medicine". I'm sure it was easy to snow these guys.

But cops are famous for documenting everything, and I'll bet that a search of the reports for that day will show some mention of the incident. I'm sure that the European media has already requested the documents.

Fair point but couldn't he have just got the likes of Emma O'Reilly to drive it over the border?

The Swiss anal about drugs? Your kidding me? You can go there and shoot up in a registered "shooting gallery". You can even get yourself killed if you shall choose. Switzerland is free from International law.

Armstrong never ever mentions his apartment in St. Moritz ever. But he went there a lot and brought his drugs through the border before taking them off to France by other means.

Ferrari would visit, the team would assemble there. It was a popular meeting place.

For a long time sporting/UCI drug testing was outlawed. They weren't allowed to perform it. There was certainly zero out of competitiion tests in Switzerland. The Tour de Suisse didn't start drug testing until about 2002.

TBH I never knew he had a flat in Switzerland.

 

[thehog]

Fair point but couldn't he have just got the likes of Emma O'Reilly to drive it over the border?



TBH I never knew he had a flat in Switzerland.

Neither did the IRS.

 

[Cobblestoned]

Suisse anti doping doesn't have the money for bloodtests. This is why so many cyclists moved to there.

Cadel Evans for example.