The Tour de France...the Armstrong vs. Contador show

[Publicus]

No worries

He lost 2 kilos between Tour of California and Giro and 2 more since Giro for a total of 4 (8.8 pounds) since end of Tour of California. My bad . . .

No worries. You've just been posting the same thing over and over again. If you find it dispositive that his form has improved from his crappy form at Giro (as demonstrated by the numbers you quote and his crit win) such that he's going to crush Contador, then be my guest. This squad is not solely dedicated to Lance and frankly I think he NEEDS that to win. This is Contador's team until he demonstrates that he's not the strongest on his team. If Lance approaches it otherwise (i.e., trying to beat him), then he's sh**ting on all of the folks that sacrificed their personal glory for him during 7 Tours.

 

[Amsterhammer]

How many threads are you going to post this same cut and paste crap to?

Hopefully in as many threads as you post your vindictive, hateful crap in.

 

[Dedelou]

Hard to judge based on his giro results. I highly doubt that he showed his cards in that final TT stage. (With the rain, and tricky nature of the parcours).

By no means am I a LA fanboy, but I am expecting him to be completely primed for the TDF (with some extra-boost perhaps, as BigBoat would say). I really want Contador to do well - seeing as the rest of his career would become a joke if he were to lose to an Armstrong who "should" be have already slipped out of his prime.

However, I wouldn't be surprised if LA does end up achieving his 8th.. And a subsequent Disney movie is made about him where everyone lives happily ever after. (Except Alberto )

Gonna be a great Tour regardless. The more drama, the better! (In fact, perhaps the Astana intra-squad drama will open the door for a Schlecklet surprise.)

The first time trial may not decide the ultimate outcome but it will set the stage for the Astana's strategy. I am was amazed to see at the Giro, how half of the team has to often work at the back to support Lance who should have better benefitted from working as a domestic , and i don't mean for carrying water for 5 minutes when the television was filmming. It seems on several occasions this past spring, Astana had lost Races they had the power on paper to win. Not being an insider, I do not really have to capacity to judge, but in my opinion they could again loose a race (TDF) for which they have the biggest guns.

 

[byu123]

he's going to crush Contador,

Never said that. On paper to date Contador is the best. How many "on paper" pre-competition sports favorits have flamed out when the heat was on???? I'm not saying that is going to happen. But to believe that Armstrong with 7 consecutive wins and clearly peaking now and in substantially better condition than the Giro, should just dutifully become Contador's domestique is idiocy. Contador will get a chance to "prove" he is better by stage 8 via the opening TT and the first few stages in the mountains. I sense that the LAhaters seeing that Armstrong may indeed contend for the top GC contender for Astana and they are trying to insist, before the racing even begins, that he should even aspire to such. If Contador is dominant by stage 8 there will be plenty of TDF for him to cruise on to victory. Armstrong has every right and Bruyneel should totally support his efforts to "prove" that he, not Contador, is the best GC contender. Like they all have said . . . let the race decide. Armstrong coming out swinging in the opening TT and the first two mountain stages is not going to somehow destroy Contador's chances of winning if he is indeed the best.

 

[BroDeal]

I sense that the LAhaters seeing that Armstrong may indeed contend for the top GC contender for Astana ..

Of course he has a chance of contending. He is a proven doper, and it is obvious that he intends to go right back to what he was doing before he retired.

 

[byu123]

Of course he has a chance of contending. He is a proven doper, and it is obvious that he intends to go right back to what he was doing before he retired.

More unfounded drivel from the resident "I can't stand it that Armstrong is such a great champion" whiner. Please post the link to the positive drug test which Armstrong has failed . . . . I won't hold my breath because everyone one knows that he has never failed a drug test period.

Spare me the bias, unproven, house of cards (1999 sample blah, blah, blah) erected by the French media who can't stand it that Armstrong has won the TDF in their crib so many times.

 

[Publicus]

Hater Indeed.

Never said that. On paper to date Contador is the best. How many "on paper" pre-competition sports favorits have flamed out when the heat was on???? I'm not saying that is going to happen. But to believe that Armstrong with 7 consecutive wins and clearly peaking now and in substantially better condition than the Giro, should just dutifully become Contador's domestique is idiocy. Contador will get a chance to "prove" he is better by stage 8 via the opening TT and the first few stages in the mountains. I sense that the LAhaters seeing that Armstrong may indeed contend for the top GC contender for Astana and they are trying to insist, before the racing even begins, that he should even aspire to such. If Contador is dominant by stage 8 there will be plenty of TDF for him to cruise on to victory. Armstrong has every right and Bruyneel should totally support his efforts to "prove" that he, not Contador, is the best GC contender. Like they all have said . . . let the race decide. Armstrong coming out swinging in the opening TT and the first two mountain stages is not going to somehow destroy Contador's chances of winning if he is indeed the best.

Once the rubber hits the road, the paper is meaningless. So are previous Tour results 4 years removed. Lance is definitely in better shape. But he doesn't come into this Tour with the same advantages he had in previous Tours--namely the squad is not riding for him. He's not the man. There is no conditional leadership now, just like there was no conditional leadership when Lance was winning his 7 titles. So I expect Lance to lead Contador out during the mountain stages, just like Levi did for Lance and has done for Contador. Every dog has his day. Lance's were three years ago. Contador's is now--if he doesn't show and prove, then Lance or Levi or Kloden can step up.

 

[BroDeal]

More unfounded drivel from the resident "I can't stand it that Armstrong is such a great champion" whiner. Please post the link to the positive drug test which Armstrong has failed . . . . I won't hold my breath because everyone one knows that he has never failed a drug test period.

He tested positive for EPO six times. Both scientists who developed the test for EPO have said that those tests show conclusively that Armstrong doped. Armstrong is a doper. Period.

 

[byu123]

if he doesn't show and prove [Contador], then Lance or Levi or Kloden can step up.

Amen. That's all I have even said. IF . . . Contador "proves" he is better than Armstrong then Armstrong should support Contador for the win. Never said otherwise. It will be interesting to see if he can indeed "prove" he is better than Armstrong by stage 7-8. Again . . . it will be a very interesting TDF.

I fully expect and believe that if Contador is dominant and Armstrong doesn't have it (i.e. Giro) then Armstrong will support Contador. I just sense there is a very real chance (emphasis on "chance) given his training and progress that Armstrong is going to come out and "prove" he is better than even Contador.

I also fully expect Contador to then become the super domestique that he should become IF . . . that happens. That is where I differ from the Armstrong haters. I believe they should let the race decide who is the leader. The Armstrong haters want him to lay down, capitulate, and "just shut up . . . support Contador no questions asked . . . and give us the satisfaction of you not winning an 8th TDF" if he has it in him to do so.

 

[byu123]

He tested positive for EPO six times. Both scientists who developed the test for EPO have said that those tests show conclusively that Armstrong doped. Armstrong is a doper. Period.

OK genius post the link showing that Armstrong has tested postive in violation of any WADA, AFP, UCI, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. testing regime.

Don't quote me some BS about a bunch of bias speculators.

"The sky is not blue. Period." Gee are you convinced now? Such sound debate.

 

[Publicus]

So close, but so far away.

IF . . . Contador "proves" he is better than Armstrong then Armstrong should support Contador for the win.

Contador doesn't have to prove he is better than Armstrong. He's the team leader. Until he falters, Lance rides in support of him. Just like every US Postal and Discovery Channel team did with Lance. It comes with the territory of being a super-domestique. Subvert his goals for the team leader's success until the team leader proves that he can't compete with the other contenders.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

I think the opening TT will be crucial in that regard, as well as the first mountain stage.

The TT, yes, and if Astana can win the TTT and put one of them in the Maillot Jaune it will put pressure on the other.

I don't know about Stage 7 making a real difference. The reason why is that while the climb to Arcalis is high, it will come after two lesser climbs and we're likely to see some 50 riders bunched up with 20km to go with a long grinde to the top. There will be attacks, but the gradient is only fair (7%), with the last 2k about 5%, which will shrink time gaps. When I look at the stage I see a bundle of riders within a minute of each other at the finish. On that climb I can see Contador pushing it, and maybe Lance getting dropped, but the only way Lance will win is if an Astana/Postal train can drop everyone and launch him to the stage win (2001-2004 style), and this shouldn't drop Contador unless he bonks like he did in P-N, which was an aberration.

Stages 8 and 9 through the mountains have the final climbs so very far away from the finish, it's going to be really hard for someone on GC to get any gap at all. The entire foray to the Pyranees in this year's Tour are a big disappointment to me.

Stage 13 without radios may be the first real day of serious attacks. 14 is almost flat, 15 goes to Verbier, which is a gradual ascent. 16 and 17 are tough mountain stages, but both end on descents.

My point is this, we could get through 17 stages leading to the ITT in Annecy, and still have numerous riders clustered within a minute of the lead, and two of those riders could very well be AC and LA. And it could also be an instance where if one of them takes the lead at the TTT or Stage 7, they could be worn out some from defending it.

People keep talking about "the mountains" deciding this Tour. But if you look at the route, you'll see that very few stages have climbing that will really decide things. We may well have several riders within two minutes of each other leading into the Ventoux.

People keep saying "Lance vs. Contador", but the course favors Cadel Evans possibly more than anyone else (except perhaps Ventoux). The TT's and climbs are almost perfect for him. And with all the sabre rattling of others, I can possible see Carlos Sastre finishing 2nd to 5th on all the tough stages leading to the Ventoux, where he's well rested from riding under the radar, then winning the stage, and the Tour.

 

[BroDeal]

OK genius post the link showing that Armstrong has tested postive

This says it all, genius.

http://velocitynation.com/content/interviews/2009/michael-ashenden

Explain how artificial EPO got into the Armstrong's urine. While you are at it explain why Mike Anderson found steroids in Armstrong's bathroom, and how multiple people say that Armstrong admitted in a hospital room that he had used a huge variety of PEDs.

 

[39*23t]

The TT, yes, and if Astana can win the TTT and put one of them in the Maillot Jaune it will put pressure on the other.

might be a bit of a dumb question but if either lance or contador puncture in the TTT with say 5 km to go will the one wait for the other.

 

[byu123]

This says it all, genius.

Come on. You post some unfounded quotes from a "hired gun" in a lawsuit. Yea . . . the expert witness I hire for court will contradict the expert witness you hire for court . . . yada yada yada. I said post the link showing a positive test result. Your inability to do so is a tacit admission of what is well known and obvious, Armstrong has never test positive for doping.

If you want to delve into such childish and baseless innuendo lets go down the road that Contador is a doper too (something I don't believe but illustrates the asinine logic in your line of thinking). Why not, yea Contador is a big doper. He doped, he's a fraud, he can't win on his own abilities

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/20044184/

It's all right there isn't it. Contador is a doper and cheated when he won the TDF in 2007 right???? (again not something I believe but it exposes the clownish logic displayed in this thread)

Armstrong never fails a test, but Australian Dr. with a bias says he did, therefore he doped. Contador never fails a test, yet German Dr. says he did, therefore he doped.

I know is hard for a weak mind to look beyond the rhetoric and rumor and actually intelligently think these things through, but try.

This is the reason they have standards in testing. Two samples, strict procedures, etc. Its very convenient and easy for people raise all kinds of BS allegations a la this Ashenden who has an obvious bias paid for by money.

Of the hundreds/thousands of test Armstrong has taken not a single one has ever produced a positive result for a banned substance.

 

[Anonymous]

Of the hundreds/thousands of test Armstrong has taken not a single one has ever produced a positive result for a banned substance.

Except for the 6 that clearly had synthetic EPO.

I still find it funny that the guy who got all sue happy about books and stuff called off the dogs after those tests. I am pretty sure that he doesn't ever want them entered into evidence in a court. I guess the fact that it is impossible to fake those results with any known technology is just a bit too much for you to swallow?

 

[neil69cyclist]

We haven't factored into the equation that LA has come back from retirement at the age of what 37 and Contador is 26 and hasn't had the time out and we are pretty much saying that LA will finish in the top 3 or 4 maybe even win.

If Contador beats him I can just imagine the amount of glee on here but then I would expect a 26 year old rider of Contadors calibre to beat a guy that has just come out of 3 yr retirement and trained for about 6-8 months, but if he beats Contador it will be down to the blood doping which he has started again, or maybe never stopped.

Roll on July 4th

I again say I am not a Fan but what I am is a hater of the haters, because it takes a shed load of sad bitterness to have that much hate for someone, if your english save that hatred for the BNP and if you are American save it for right wing extremist or maybe even the NRA

 

[byu123]

if he beats Contador it will be down to the blood doping which he has started again,

If Contador beats Armstrong it will be down to the steroids he is doping. Clearly the only reason Contador is any good at all is because he is a doper. http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/20044184/ If he hadn't doped he never would have won the 2007 TDF and he would be just another rider in the Peloton (sarcasm off).

I don't believe Contador doped.

But the emptry drivel the sniveling whiners/LAhaters post here is nothing more than an expression of the childish jealousy they harbor because Armstrong as a great American cyclist destroyed the rest of the world for 7 years. Its not because they have some sort of genuine affinity for Contador its that they can't stand the fact that an American from Texas showed the world what exceptional dedication and excellence means in cycling.

Still waiting for the post linking to a postive drug test for Armstrong.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Armstrong never fails a test, but Australian Dr. with a bias says he did, therefore he doped.

You're making yourself look like an absolute, total idiot. Do you honestly believe that Michael Ashenden is a biased doctor whose work is not credible? Did you even bother reading the interview with him or looking at his reports?

 

[Anonymous]

Still waiting for the post linking to a postive drug test for Armstrong.

http://nyvelocity.com/content/interviews/2009/michael-ashenden

Would you like fries with that?

Tell you what, read it and refute the actual science involved with the test and the fact that it would be impossible to "spike" a sample. See, you can't just pour in some synthetic EPO and have it come up like a positive.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

According to Johnny Come Lately, byu123, Michael Ashenden isn't credible, and magically spiked the test because he's a Lance hater, along with anyone else that believes the results.

 

[byu123]

You're making yourself look like an absolute, total idiot. Do you honestly believe that Michael Ashenden is a biased doctor whose work is not credible? Did you even bother reading the interview with him or looking at his reports?

Alpe d'Huez . . . You're making yourself look like an absolute, total idiot. Do you honestly believe that [Werner Franke] is a biased doctor whose work is not credible? Did you even bother reading the [NBC Sports article]. http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/20044184/

So you agree Contador is a doper too right?

 

[byu123]

spiked the test

Yes, exactly. Maybe not Ashenden but I strongly suspect there those who would do exactly that.

THIS IS WHY YOU HAVE TWO SAMPLES TO BE TESTED. Even this "Johnny Come Lately" gets the reason for the two samples. It drastically reduces the threat of tampering or contamination of the sample. If you are going to destroy a persons reputation and livelihood it needs to be done under strict controls. Why else do they have two samples? Hmmm . . . .?

Ashenden taking 7 year old samples which may or may not be Armstrongs, may or may not have been tampered with, may or may not have been contaminated and voila! producing some bias result doesn't prove a damn thing.

 

[RightWingNutJob]

Didn't Michael Ashenden testify on SCA's behalf during the arbitration case? So why didn't they win?

 

[BroDeal]

Didn't Michael Ashenden testify on SCA's behalf during the arbitration case? So why didn't they win?

Maybe because Armstrong argued that it did not matter if he doped because the contract did not forbid it. The arbitrator agreed.

Armstrong's argument sounds just like the type of argument that Valverde would make.