Thor has "never seen doping"

[Tubeless]

Oi!

All I can state in response to this is: Seriously?

As someone who has spent the cumulative of a decade on the continent of Africa, I can assure you that there is simply no way this will ever happen. Of all the draws to Western culture sports, football, track and field, and even basketball are all monumentally higher on the prestige scale above cycling or "winter" endurance sports... Apart from the logistical impossibility of having Congolese speed skaters, or Nigerian skate-skiers, as there is no ice or environments for these aptitudes to develop, there is a scoff about some of these sports as simply below the culturally significant ones mentioned afore.

Can they develop into formidable athletes in these disciplines? Sure. Will they? Never.

One decent Kenyan runner, Philip Boit (his 800m record is 1:46:06) decided in the late 1990's to give it a go in cross-country skiing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Boit

He trained full time, spending winter months in Finland, and had plenty of coaching & technique help. Philip was on a Nike retainer plus had financial support from the Kenyan Olympic committee.

He participated in two Olympics (2002 and 2006) and failed to qualify for 2010. The qualifying standard for Vancouver Olympics was 300 FIS points - this 15km freestyle (skate-ski) event from the Olympics demonstrates that even at the 300 point level, Philip would have lost approximately 12 mins to the winner on a 33 minute "individual time trial".

http://www.fis-ski.com/uk/604/610.html?sector=CC&raceid=16235

His biggest problem? Not VO2 max, but downhills ! He'd lose major time to the top guys navigating even simple downhills - including crashing occasionally...

Cross-country skiing is a technique sport, it's tough to learn it later in life...

 

[Anonymous]

One decent Kenyan runner, Philip Boit (his 800m record is 1:46:06) decided in the late 1990's to give it a go in cross-country skiing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Boit

He trained full time, spending winter months in Finland, and had plenty of coaching & technique help. Philip was on a Nike retainer plus had financial support from the Kenyan Olympic committee.

He participated in two Olympics (2002 and 2006) and failed to qualify for 2010. The qualifying standard for Vancouver Olympics was 300 FIS points - this 15km freestyle (skate-ski) event from the Olympics demonstrates that even at the 300 point level, Philip would have lost approximately 12 mins to the winner on a 33 minute "individual time trial".

http://www.fis-ski.com/uk/604/610.html?sector=CC&raceid=16235

His biggest problem? Not VO2 max, but downhills ! He'd lose major time to the top guys navigating even simple downhills - including crashing occasionally...

Cross-country skiing is a technique sport, it's tough to learn it later in life...

Start them young!

 

[Race Radio]

Actually ... I think you are missing your attempt at making a point at all.

You claimed that Marathon runners did not have a VO2 max comparable to that of XC skiers and cyclists. Well I just illustrated with documentation from a peer reviewed scientific journal that they in fact do (feel free to Google 'peer reviewed' if you didn't quite make it to grad school).

I digress ....

"Recent studies reveal that Kenyan and Scandinavian runners actually possess similar VO2 max values, yet Kenyan runners dominate all running events over 5 km compared to their Scandinavian competitors."

Hmm ... isn't Scandinavia the place where all those 'present day' XC skiing champions are made? Oh, oh ... not so, once the African nations take up the sport. In other words ... the African athletes possess the same VO2 max thresholds and yet are physiologically superior in other measures.

You still missing the point.

My point was that Vo2 is not as critical a measurement for running a marathon as it is in cycling and Sking. There are plenty of Marathon champions who did not have 80 + Vo2 but few Tour winners.

You provided a study that showed that Kenyans in fact did not have higher Vo2 max scores then Scandinavians and made the unsupported assumption that Kenyans would dominate because of unspecified "Other Measures"

Running is the national sport in Kenyan and Ethiopia. Skiing shares the same importance in Scandinavia. It is no surprise they excel in these events.

 

[Anonymous]

Off the top of my head... New York City Marathon in 2008 and 2007 (and the NYC half in 2009), London and Helsinki (World Championships) in 2005 and at least half a dozen other major marathon victories in the last decade.

Oh please ... Paula (Doper) Radcliffe is the best you can come up with?! She has washroom breaks during the event to eliminate evidence.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6I2-YP42rs&feature=related

Sorry ... but I am only considering the fastest performances over a said distance.

NYC marathon:

1997 John Kagwe (Kenya) 2:08:12
1998 John Kagwe (Kenya) 2:08:45
1999 Joseph Chebet (Kenya) 2:09:14
2000 Abdelkader El Mouaziz (Morocco) 2:10:09
2001 Tesfaye Jifar (Ethiopia) 2:07:43
2002 Rodgers Rop (Kenya) 2:08:07
2003 Martin Lel (Kenya) 2:10:30
2004 Hendrick Ramaalla (South Africa) 2:09:28
2005 Paul Tergat (Kenya) 2:09:30
2006 Marílson Gomes dos Santos (Brazil) 2:09:58
2007 Martin Lel (Kenya) 2:09:04 2nd Victory
2008 Marílson Gomes dos Santos (Brazil) 2:08:43
2009 Meb Keflezighi (USA) 2:09:15 BORN IN ERITREA

London Marathon:

1999 Abdelkader El Mouaziz (Morocco) 2:07:57
2000 António Pinto (Portugal) 2:06:36
2001 Abdelkader El Mouaziz (Morocco) 2:07:09
2002 Khalid Khannouchi (United States) 2:05:38 BORN IN MOROCCO
2003 Gezahegne Abera (Ethiopia) 2:07:56
2004 Evans Rutto (Kenya) 2:06:18
2005 Martin Lel (Kenya) 2:07:35
2006 Felix Limo (Kenya) 2:06:39
2007 Martin Lel (Kenya ) 2:07:41
2008 Martin Lel (Kenya) 2:05:15
2009 Samuel Wanjiru (Kenya) 2:05:10
2010 Tsegaye Kebede (Ethiopia) 2:05:19

World Championships:

2001 Gezahegne Abera (Ethiopia) 2:12:42
2003 Jaouad Gharib (Morocco) 2:08:31
2005 Jaouad Gharib (Morocco) 2:10:10
2007 Luke Kibet (Kenya) 2:15:59
2009 Abel Kirui (Kenya) 2:06:54

Looks like you need to come up with some more examples.

 

[stephens]

Sounds like you needed to ask your question more carefully if you didn't intend Paula's results to answer it.

If your point is simply that Africans have dominated the marathon, well...duh! Sammy's race this weekend in Chicago might possibly be the best marathon ever run, considering the conditions and the battle. Amazing.

 

[Anonymous]

Sounds like you needed to ask your question more carefully if you didn't intend Paula's results to answer it.

If your point is simply that Africans have dominated the marathon, well...duh! Sammy's race this weekend in Chicago might possibly be the best marathon ever run, considering the conditions and the battle. Amazing.

No ... I simply was stating that there are no-longer any formidable distance runners from Great Britain. Period. Unless you are holding out for the 'the great white hope'.

Oh ... and I just love how you Americans try to place the Stars and Stripes on everything you are exposed to. Just so you know ... Samuel or 'Sammy' as you refer to your good buddy ol' pal ... is actually Samues Kamau Wanjiru. But then ... you would remember his last name would you?

 

[Anonymous]

You still missing the point.

My point was that Vo2 is not as critical a measurement for running a marathon as it is in cycling and Sking. There are plenty of Marathon champions who did not have 80 + Vo2 but few Tour winners.

You provided a study that showed that Kenyans in fact did not have higher Vo2 max scores then Scandinavians and made the unsupported assumption that Kenyans would dominate because of unspecified "Other Measures"

Running is the national sport in Kenyan and Ethiopia. Skiing shares the same importance in Scandinavia. It is no surprise they excel in these events.

Actually ... here was your quote:

Vo2 is not the critical measurement in the marathon like it is in Cycling and X-Country skiing. It is possible to win major marathons and even set world records with a Vo2 that most GT contenders or Skier would laugh at.

Why would they laugh? Are you saying that the physiological make-up of an athlete from an African nation could not compete in the sports of cycling or XC skiing at an elite level?

Your point that it is possible for an individual to win a marathon with a low VO2 max is mute. Who cares? I am applying the theory (in response to your 'laugh at' comment) that one has to have a high VO2 max in order to compete in the sports of cycling and XC skiing. It has been demonstrated that the runners from the African nations (and you can add your little Amercan hero Prefontaine to the list) do possess these incredibly high VO2 thresholds necessary to compete in high level cycling/XC skiing. This same research group demon-strated that a sample group of African runners purposefully selected with a significantly lower VO2max (61 ml/min/kg) than a group of Caucasian runners (80 ml/min/kg) were able to achieve the same performances over 10 km due to the ability to sustain a higher percentage of their VO2max throughout the event (tolerate higher fractional utilization of maximal oxygen uptake [VO.sub.2max]) (Weston et al., 2000).

So now that the debate of VO2max has concluded. How is it an "assumption that Kenyans would dominate because of unspecified measures"? They kick the scandinavians at every endurance event to which they have been directly compared. I am pretty sure that the African nations could learn the techniques of skiing if trained at a young age. I however do not think you could increase the biological aerobic capacity of a Scandinavian (albeit without the use of EPO or blood doping) to match the performances of their neighbours in continental Africa.

Just face the fact that white men can't jump ... er run ... er ski ... er bike.

 

[stephens]

Oh ... and I just love how you Americans try to place the Stars and Stripes on everything you are exposed to. Just so you know ... Samuel or 'Sammy' as you refer to your good buddy ol' pal ... is actually Samues Kamau Wanjiru. But then ... you would remember his last name would you?

Who's claiming what? I've followed Wanjiru's career since his student days in Japan, although I had already moved to California before he arrived there, I still watch the Ekidens and keep up on the reports via the internet. I was very impressed with his performance in Chicago, especially since everyone says he's been partying a bit much back home and didn't have the greatest training over the last year. He's still really young and he may have the record in him on a cool day...

 

[sadfitty]

Every time Vaughters or one of his riders speak about doping, my opinion of Garmin goes down another notch. It looks more and more like the Hog mocking the anti-doping teams for insincerity was not done just out of spite.

Thor will fit right in with Saint Millar and his ridiculous comments about Landis and others.

It should probably be pointed out that Thor has hated FL since stage 17 in the 2006 Tour. Thor believes that his teammate Patrice Halgand (I think) was robbed for a stage win by Landis (and Sinkewitz) that day

 

[Tyler'sTwin]

Doping or not is irrelevant really. Current nations will cease to dominate as soon as the African nations (Kenya, Ethiopia and Morocco etc ...) develop programs to train their athletes in xc/biathlon. When is the last time you ever saw an Brit win the miracle mile or a marathon?

Kenyans and Ethiopians dominate running because of their superior stride, running economy and build. Some of the factors that make them more economical would probably translate to other endurance events while others wouldn't and some would even be detrimental. Particularly in a sport like XC skiing where both upper body and leg strength are important factors and the ideal athlete is pretty tall and mesomorphic.

So now that the debate of VO2max has concluded. How is it an "assumption that Kenyans would dominate because of unspecified measures"? They kick the scandinavians at every endurance event to which they have been directly compared. I am pretty sure that the African nations could learn the techniques of skiing if trained at a young age. I however do not think you could increase the biological aerobic capacity of a Scandinavian (albeit without the use of EPO or blood doping) to match the performances of their neighbours in continental Africa.

Just face the fact that white men can't jump ... er run ... er ski ... er bike.

You clearly have never seen XC skiers run against each other. Trying to decipher who is the superior skier based on their running performances is absolutely hopeless. For example, Johan Kjolstad destroys Petter Northug by 30 seconds in a 3k race, probably due to "unspecified measures", but shockingly those measures do not make him the better skier.

You mean the one endurance event to which they have been directly compared. One that differs the most from every other endurance event because of all the running specific factors deciding speed and efficiency and one that evidently says little about your ability as a skier.

 

[Race Radio]

Actually ... here was your quote:

Vo2 is not the critical measurement in the marathon like it is in Cycling and X-Country skiing. It is possible to win major marathons and even set world records with a Vo2 that most GT contenders or Skier would laugh at.

Why would they laugh? Are you saying that the physiological make-up of an athlete from an African nation could not compete in the sports of cycling or XC skiing at an elite level?

Your point that it is possible for an individual to win a marathon with a low VO2 max is mute. Who cares? I am applying the theory (in response to your 'laugh at' comment) that one has to have a high VO2 max in order to compete in the sports of cycling and XC skiing. It has been demonstrated that the runners from the African nations (and you can add your little Amercan hero Prefontaine to the list) do possess these incredibly high VO2 thresholds necessary to compete in high level cycling/XC skiing. This same research group demon-strated that a sample group of African runners purposefully selected with a significantly lower VO2max (61 ml/min/kg) than a group of Caucasian runners (80 ml/min/kg) were able to achieve the same performances over 10 km due to the ability to sustain a higher percentage of their VO2max throughout the event (tolerate higher fractional utilization of maximal oxygen uptake [VO.sub.2max]) (Weston et al., 2000).

So now that the debate of VO2max has concluded. How is it an "assumption that Kenyans would dominate because of unspecified measures"? They kick the scandinavians at every endurance event to which they have been directly compared. I am pretty sure that the African nations could learn the techniques of skiing if trained at a young age. I however do not think you could increase the biological aerobic capacity of a Scandinavian (albeit without the use of EPO or blood doping) to match the performances of their neighbours in continental Africa.

Just face the fact that white men can't jump ... er run ... er ski ... er bike.

You have yet to show any evidence of Africans supposed genetic superiority, in fact quite the opposite. You have show that they are the same.

The national sport in Kenya is running. Every kid does it from an early age. The same is true for Skiing in Scandinavia, Baseball in America and Football in Brazil.

 

[Dalakhani]

So basically, Thor was asked if he had seen doping in cycling, and he answered no? The other option being to say yes and list all the riders he's seen dope?

Exactly. It's a non-answer and means nothing. They may have well asked him if he'd masturbated in the shower that morning.

Or course he's going to say no.

Steve

 

[flyor64]

snip...x7

Hmm, let's see. You've made 7 posts, which in and of itself is no problem. BUT all 7 of them have something to do with the merits of Africans in endurance sports, with some weird tilt at XC skiing as compared to marathon running...which I'd agree could be a valid and interesting topic and may even be worthy of it's own thread.

BUT you've chosen to bring all 7 of these posts up in a thread about the newly crowned Norwegian World Champion in cycling and whether or not he has ever seen doping in cycling...or the nightlife in Norway.

Bit of a stretch really.

You throw in some silly shot at Americans and their pride and flag waving...because Samuel Wanjiru, a Kenyan, won an exciting maration against another African in the US last weekend and someone here thought that was pretty awesome...how does that relate? To anything? This thread?

Again, all of this in 7 posts about marathoners/runners from the continent of Africa becoming dominant cyclists and/or XC skiiers and/or Biathletes...in a thread about Thor Hushovd and his apparent lack of doping awareness...

Some more stretching...dontcha think?

 

[Anonymous]

You have yet to show any evidence of Africans supposed genetic superiority, in fact quite the opposite. You have show that they are the same.

The national sport in Kenya is running. Every kid does it from an early age. The same is true for Skiing in Scandinavia, Baseball in America and Football in Brazil.

Hmm ... MLB? Now you are just making yourself sound silly. You forgot to mention other american favourites such as the NFL and NBA. Who dominates in these sports? Or are you waiting for 'the great white hope' as well?

I guess the scientific literature is a little too advanced for you to understand. Apologies. Just look at the fact that every running distance from the mile up to the marathon has been set by an individual deriving from an african nation.

100 metres - 9.58 - Usain Bolt (Jamaica), west African decent
200 metres - 19.19 - Usain Bolt (Jamaica), west African decent
400 metres - 43.18 - Michael Johnson (USA), west African decent
800 metres - 1:41.01 - David Rudisha (Kenya), east Africa
1000 metres - 2:11.96 - Noah Ngeny (Kenya), east Africa
1500 metres - 3:26.0 - Hicham El Guerrouj (Morocco), north Africa
Mile - 3:43.13 - Hicham El Guerrouj (Morocco), north Africa
2000 metres - 4:44.79 - Hicham El Guerrouj (Morocco), north Africa
3000 m - 7:20.67 - Daniel Komen (Kenya), east Africa
5000 metres - 12:37.35 - Kenenisa Bekele (Ethiopia), east Africa
10,000 metres - 26:17.53 - Kenenisa Bekele (Ethiopia), east Africa
10 km (road) - 26:44 - Leonard Komon (Kenya), east Africa
Half marathon - 58:23 Zersenay Tadese (Eritrea), north Africa
Marathon - 2:03.59 - Haile Gebrselassie (Ethiopia) east Africa

Enough proof of genetic superiority? Or is it just that caucasians are lazy and thus don't like to train?

 

[indurain666]

BS, you start seeing (not necessarily using) juice when you are a junior. Thor's statement is a good PR move targeted to cycling fans with no racing experience which makes sense after winning rainbow. But he is not fooling anyone with some racing experience. He has seen it, and likely use it. Couldn't care less, he is a great champion

 

[meandmygitane]

Hmm ... MLB? Now you are just making yourself sound silly. You forgot to mention other american favourites such as the NFL and NBA. Who dominates in these sports? Or are you waiting for 'the great white hope' as well?

I guess the scientific literature is a little too advanced for you to understand. Apologies. Just look at the fact that every running distance from the mile up to the marathon has been set by an individual deriving from an african nation.

100 metres - 9.58 - Usain Bolt (Jamaica), west African decent
200 metres - 19.19 - Usain Bolt (Jamaica), west African decent
400 metres - 43.18 - Michael Johnson (USA), west African decent
800 metres - 1:41.01 - David Rudisha (Kenya), east Africa
1000 metres - 2:11.96 - Noah Ngeny (Kenya), east Africa
1500 metres - 3:26.0 - Hicham El Guerrouj (Morocco), north Africa
Mile - 3:43.13 - Hicham El Guerrouj (Morocco), north Africa
2000 metres - 4:44.79 - Hicham El Guerrouj (Morocco), north Africa
3000 m - 7:20.67 - Daniel Komen (Kenya), east Africa
5000 metres - 12:37.35 - Kenenisa Bekele (Ethiopia), east Africa
10,000 metres - 26:17.53 - Kenenisa Bekele (Ethiopia), east Africa
10 km (road) - 26:44 - Leonard Komon (Kenya), east Africa
Half marathon - 58:23 Zersenay Tadese (Eritrea), north Africa
Marathon - 2:03.59 - Haile Gebrselassie (Ethiopia) east Africa

Enough proof of genetic superiority? Or is it just that caucasians are lazy and thus don't like to train?

Why aren't there any south africans? Why are there north africans?
I think the common denominator here is "poor", "running economy" and maybe the "d-word".
So maybe they have a more specialized build for their respective running distances.

XC-skiing has a lot of muscle utilisation in the upper body, XC-skiing has natural intervals, XC-skiing relies heavliy on VO2-max.
A 50-kg kenyan can't win a distance event in XC-skiing for those reasons.

 

[Anonymous]

Hmm, let's see. You've made 7 posts, which in and of itself is no problem. BUT all 7 of them have something to do with the merits of Africans in endurance sports, with some weird tilt at XC skiing as compared to marathon running...which I'd agree could be a valid and interesting topic and may even be worthy of it's own thread.

BUT you've chosen to bring all 7 of these posts up in a thread about the newly crowned Norwegian World Champion in cycling and whether or not he has ever seen doping in cycling...or the nightlife in Norway.

Bit of a stretch really.

You throw in some silly shot at Americans and their pride and flag waving...because Samuel Wanjiru, a Kenyan, won an exciting maration against another African in the US last weekend and someone here thought that was pretty awesome...how does that relate? To anything? This thread?

Again, all of this in 7 posts about marathoners/runners from the continent of Africa becoming dominant cyclists and/or XC skiiers and/or Biathletes...in a thread about Thor Hushovd and his apparent lack of doping awareness...

Some more stretching...dontcha think?

I digress ... apologies for bursting the bubbles of caucasians everywhere. You can continue to live in your dreamworld and I will take my debate elsewhere.

 

[flyor64]

I digress ... apologies for bursting the bubbles of caucasians everywhere. You can continue to live in your dreamworld and I will take my debate elsewhere.

You´ve hardly bursted anything...you´ve missed my point, which you ably prove by quoting my thread in order to take another shot at caucasians. It´s comical really...

You obviously have an agenda (although for the life of me I can not understand why you chose this thread as your segue) and are hardly going to bother yourself reading/comprehending my or anyone else´s post. Good luck with that

I´ll not attempt to get in the way of your "reality" again.

 

[Anonymous]

Why aren't there any south africans? Why are there north africans?
I think the common denominator here is "poor", "running economy" and maybe the "d-word".
So maybe they have a more specialized build for their respective running distances.

XC-skiing has a lot of muscle utilisation in the upper body, XC-skiing has natural intervals, XC-skiing relies heavliy on VO2-max.
A 50-kg kenyan can't win a distance event in XC-skiing for those reasons.

The 'd-word'? Please elaborate.

Uhm ... what makes you think that all Kenyans are 50-kg? Btw ... Pietro Piller Cottrer of Italy (XC skier) is only 72 kg (159 lbs), identical to that of David Rudisha of Kenya (runner).

Also ... if you were to refer to my earlier posts you will note that the debate over VO2 max is mute, as those athletes from African nations can and do possess high VO2 thresholds.

Alright then ... next topic. Please and thank you.

 

[Anonymous]

You´ve hardly bursted anything...you´ve missed my point, which you ably prove by quoting my thread in order to take another shot at caucasians. It´s comical really...

You obviously have an agenda (although for the life of me I can not understand why you chose this thread as your segue) and are hardly going to bother yourself reading/comprehending my or anyone else´s post. Good luck with that

I´ll not attempt to get in the way of your "reality" again.

Tsk tsk ... so sensitive.

Just remember to wear plenty of SPF 50 otherwise you may actually get burned while wandering outside of this forum as well.

 

[workingclasshero]

When is the last time you ever saw an Brit win the miracle mile or a marathon?

feel free to Google 'peer reviewed' if you didn't quite make it to grad school

that's a bit rich for someone who calls it 'the miracle mile' and 'an' brit

No ... I simply was stating that there are no-longer any formidable distance runners from Great Britain. Period. Unless you are holding out for the 'the great white hope'.

re: the great white hope, are you talking about chris solinsky, who is a yank? or are you now again accepting paula radcliffe, the british WR holder in the marathon? You do know that brits and yanks are not the same people, not from the same country, not even the same part of the world?

look mr. monopoly, i don't know you.



and i'm glad i don't.

I guess both your parents have pulled their hair out and your friends don't tend to stay around for long do they. There's something about people who have to be right all the time. even when they're not.

 

[Anonymous]

that's a bit rich for someone who calls it 'the miracle mile' and 'an' brit



re: the great white hope, are you talking about chris solinsky, who is a yank? or are you now again accepting paula radcliffe, the british WR holder in the marathon? You do know that brits and yanks are not the same people, not from the same country, not even the same part of the world?

look mr. monopoly, i don't know you.

and i'm glad i don't.

I guess both your parents have pulled their hair out and your friends don't tend to stay around for long do they. There's something about people who have to be right all the time. even when they're not.

I truly sympathize with your low SES Mr. Workingclasshero. However, it is never too late to pursue an education. It is within your power.

As far as the phrase the 'great white hope', I was merely utilizing it as a metaphor, but of course I wouldn't expect you to comprehend that. Almost everyone knows what the phrase 'great white hope' is associated with racism which derived in the early 1900s when white Americans with racist attitudes wanted to find a boxer to defeat the heavyweight boxing champion Jack Johnson (who was black).

Again not your fault. I will be sure to type my points bullet form for you next time. Just be sure to have a dictionary, encyclopedia and a life line at hand. Perhaps you could 'phone a friend'?

 

[Barrus]

How did we in heavens name end up here?

 

[Archibald]

How did we in heavens name end up here?

something about feeding trolls...

 

[buckwheat]

Hmm ... MLB? Now you are just making yourself sound silly. You forgot to mention other american favourites such as the NFL and NBA. Who dominates in these sports? Or are you waiting for 'the great white hope' as well?

I guess the scientific literature is a little too advanced for you to understand. Apologies. Just look at the fact that every running distance from the mile up to the marathon has been set by an individual deriving from an african nation.

100 metres - 9.58 - Usain Bolt (Jamaica), west African decent
200 metres - 19.19 - Usain Bolt (Jamaica), west African decent
400 metres - 43.18 - Michael Johnson (USA), west African decent
800 metres - 1:41.01 - David Rudisha (Kenya), east Africa
1000 metres - 2:11.96 - Noah Ngeny (Kenya), east Africa
1500 metres - 3:26.0 - Hicham El Guerrouj (Morocco), north Africa
Mile - 3:43.13 - Hicham El Guerrouj (Morocco), north Africa
2000 metres - 4:44.79 - Hicham El Guerrouj (Morocco), north Africa
3000 m - 7:20.67 - Daniel Komen (Kenya), east Africa
5000 metres - 12:37.35 - Kenenisa Bekele (Ethiopia), east Africa
10,000 metres - 26:17.53 - Kenenisa Bekele (Ethiopia), east Africa
10 km (road) - 26:44 - Leonard Komon (Kenya), east Africa
Half marathon - 58:23 Zersenay Tadese (Eritrea), north Africa
Marathon - 2:03.59 - Haile Gebrselassie (Ethiopia) east Africa

Enough proof of genetic superiority? Or is it just that caucasians are lazy and thus don't like to train?

Genetic superiority?

Their superiority also comes out of an ampule. Doesn't Jos Hermens manage a couple of them? Didn't Bekele's fiance drop dead all of a sudden for no apparent reason?

How do you explain, Jim Ryan, Seb Coe, Steve Scott, Frank Shorter, Bill Rodgers? Waitz, Samuelson, Kristiansen?