Tirreno - Adriatico 2016 09/03/16 - 15/03/16 2.UWT

[veji11]

Re:

Yeah, now I'm gonna get unpopular...

So, they cancelled the stage a day before due to risk of snow, and then there wasn't any snow. Still seems better, to me, than having a risk of snow, still insisting on the stage being run, and then having to stop/people getting hurt.
I'd honestly rather have 10 races/stages getting cancelled each year, than having just one rider get injured from riding in bad weather.

But this is the way things have always been done in cycling and for a good reason : You can't know for sure the day before (except if there is already 1 meter of snow up there, it's minus 5 and 1 more meter is forecasted) that the snow is going to be there, so first of all you tell teams that the forecast isn't good and that we will have to see in the morning.

Then in the morning if the weather hasnt turned bad (and it hadn't) and it isn't sure it will (and it wasn't) you start the race.. if because of bad luck the weather turns bad and you have to stop it, well you do !!

This is how it has always been done and for a good reason because more often than not in the end you can still race it because the threat hasn't materialised...

If we do like RCS did, than it means that everytime the probability of a problem is deemed high enough you cancel the stage... This will mean many more cancelations !

 

[classicomano]

https://twitter.com/tonymartin85/status/709097150471389184

I hate you Etixx.

 

[Rollthedice]

https://twitter.com/tonymartin85/status/709097150471389184

Apparently riding for Lefevere tends to lower one's IQ.

 

[veji11]

https://twitter.com/tonymartin85/status/709097150471389184

Apparently riding for Lefevere tends to lower one's IQ.

Indeed this is just beyond stupid.

HOW CAN A RIDER BE HAPPY TO HAVE A STAGE CANCELLED BECAUSE OF NON EXISTING SNOW ????

 

[jaylew]

Re: Re:

So TJ has to drop from every race because the organisation cancelled a stage? I'm not sure how TJVG is responsible for this.

Peloton seems 50/50 about the decision. Better safe than sorry then.

TJ is not responsible, he is reaping the benefits and his team is overjoyed with this farce so I think I'm entitled to dislike him.

Yeah, it is not like that I wish him to crash out, I just want to see him dropped in every race after BMC's ridiculous reactions.

You should direct your thoughts elsewhere. TJ would have preferred to race.

Van Garderen rode on his time trial bike during BMC’s morning ride but preferred not to speak to the media.

“Tejay was not happy because he wanted to test his condition and make his effort on the climb,” van Avermaet explained. “I can understand him, he wanted to race, like everyone. But under the circumstances, I think they made the right decision before the stage instead of having to do it in the stage.

 

[Vroome.exe]

https://twitter.com/tonymartin85/status/709097150471389184

Apparently riding for Lefevere tends to lower one's IQ.

Indeed this is just beyond stupid.

HOW CAN A RIDER BE HAPPY TO HAVE A STAGE CANCELLED BECAUSE OF NON EXISTING SNOW ????

Where does he say he's happy because stage was cancelled? He just agrees that Nibali and Astana are overreacting just because it hurts their chances of this tirreno.

 

[veji11]

https://twitter.com/tonymartin85/status/709097150471389184

Apparently riding for Lefevere tends to lower one's IQ.

Indeed this is just beyond stupid.

HOW CAN A RIDER BE HAPPY TO HAVE A STAGE CANCELLED BECAUSE OF NON EXISTING SNOW ????

Where does he say he's happy because stage was cancelled? He just agrees that Nibali and Astana are overreacting just because it hurts their chances of this tirreno.

The one overreacting here is Brammaier calling Nibali a moron who should stop cycling don't you think ??

Nibali just pointing out the ridiculousness of the cancelation might be petty but he is eminently right isn't he... Other riders should just have let it go because the Org's decision is indefensible !

 

[rhubroma]

Vegni, Bugno, Lefevre, Martin, the unknown Irish cyclist should all have their heads examined. There was no ice and no snow on the ground. Last year they rode Terminillo in the snow! They didn't even verify the situation on the ground, but did put up a false image on la Gazzetta website to deliberately mislead the public. This waS purely an interest and power game and, as usual in these circumstances, cycling loses.

 

[RedheadDane]

Re: Re:

Yeah, now I'm gonna get unpopular...

So, they cancelled the stage a day before due to risk of snow, and then there wasn't any snow. Still seems better, to me, than having a risk of snow, still insisting on the stage being run, and then having to stop/people getting hurt.
I'd honestly rather have 10 races/stages getting cancelled each year, than having just one rider get injured from riding in bad weather.

But this is the way things have always been done in cycling and for a good reason : You can't know for sure the day before (except if there is already 1 meter of snow up there, it's minus 5 and 1 more meter is forecasted) that the snow is going to be there, so first of all you tell teams that the forecast isn't good and that we will have to see in the morning.

Then in the morning if the weather hasnt turned bad (and it hadn't) and it isn't sure it will (and it wasn't) you start the race.. if because of bad luck the weather turns bad and you have to stop it, well you do !!

This is how it has always been done and for a good reason because more often than not in the end you can still race it because the threat hasn't materialised...

If we do like RCS did, than it means that everytime the probability of a problem is deemed high enough you cancel the stage... This will mean many more cancelations !

These recent situations - here and in P-N - just goes to show that there is no perfect solution. There will always be someone who isn't happy.
Sometimes a race is cancelled when it wasn't necessary, sometimes it's run when it shouldn't have been. Sometimes you end up with silly situations like the random-line-in-the-snow from Catalunya (I think it was) a few years ago.
There wasn't a risk of snow yesterday, there was snow! How could they know the majority of it would melt? Everybody involved agreed to cancel.

Vegni explained that everyone supported the application of the UCI Extreme Weather Protocol, where stakeholders come together and make a combined decision to race, change the stage or even cancel it.

“We’ve followed the Extreme Weather Protocol that was put in place after a year ago by the UCI, with all the stakeholders involved: the head of the race, the chief judge, the police, the race doctor, team representatives and rider representatives to decide things,” Vegni said.

It might not have been the way things have always been, but "always been" just isn't always the best solution. Besides; it's not like it'll make much of a difference in the long-run. Sure, it seems some people around here think that this will mean that now races will be cancelled left and right, but I honestly don't think that's gonna happen.

 

[veji11]

Re:

Vegni, Bugno, Lefevre, Martin, the unknown Irish cyclist should all have their heads examined. There was no ice and no snow on the ground. Last year they rode Terminillo in the snow! They didn't even verify the situation on the ground, but did put up a false image on la Gazzetta website to deliberately mislead the public. This waS purely an interest and power game and, as usual in these circumstances, cycling loses.

I honestly think the org just screwed up : once the bad weather forecast was known there was big pressure from some to cancel, using the (what they thought was bad) Paris Nice precedent to ensure cancellation..

And now suddenly everybody realises that ASO did it the right way because you can't know for sure !! Funny isn't it ?

 

[rhubroma]

Re: Re:

Vegni, Bugno, Lefevre, Martin, the unknown Irish cyclist should all have their heads examined. There was no ice and no snow on the ground. Last year they rode Terminillo in the snow! They didn't even verify the situation on the ground, but did put up a false image on la Gazzetta website to deliberately mislead the public. This waS purely an interest and power game and, as usual in these circumstances, cycling loses.

I honestly think the org just screwed up : once the bad weather forecast was known there was big pressure from some to cancel, using the (what they thought was bad) Paris Nice precedent to ensure cancellation..

And now suddenly everybody realises that ASO did it the right way because you can't know for sure !! Funny isn't it ?

It is a question of leadership and not always pandering. It is a humiliating display of provincialism.

 

[Gigs_98]

https://twitter.com/tonymartin85/status/709097150471389184

Apparently riding for Lefevere tends to lower one's IQ.

Indeed this is just beyond stupid.

HOW CAN A RIDER BE HAPPY TO HAVE A STAGE CANCELLED BECAUSE OF NON EXISTING SNOW ????

Where does he say he's happy because stage was cancelled? He just agrees that Nibali and Astana are overreacting just because it hurts their chances of this tirreno.

But thats not why they complained. They complained because there was absolutely no reason to cancel the stage.
To be honest though Martin really didn't say he was happy that the stage was cancelled but with his tweet he supported a tweet which insulted nibali and thats just stupid.

 

[veji11]

Re: Re:

These recent situations - here and in P-N - just goes to show that there is no perfect solution. There will always be someone who isn't happy.
Sometimes a race is cancelled when it wasn't necessary, sometimes it's run when it shouldn't have been. Sometimes you end up with silly situations like the random-line-in-the-snow from Catalunya (I think it was) a few years ago.
There wasn't a risk of snow yesterday, there was snow! How could they know the majority of it would melt? Everybody involved agreed to cancel.

There is a right way to do it : it's the Paris Nice way. Is it comfortable for the riders ? no, because maybe they ride for naught and can catch a cold. Is it comfortable for the organisers ? no because they don't know and have to adapt on the spot.

Basically is it ideal ? No ! Because faced with weather risk there is no ideal way of doing it. It's a bit like the democracy quote from Churchill : the least bad solution.

RCS went for the easy, appeasing decision, to stay with british quotes, it went for the "peace in our time" solution, and it proved wrong.

Of course my quotes are in gest, but you get the point. shrieking away from difficult real times decisions for the easy security of deciding the day before on what was only a hypothesis, well it bit them in the ass, and rightfully so.

 

[cantpedal]

the economics of calling it a day early may make some sense. With the finances so tight for the organizers today having to pay for the equipment moves, setup, breakdown, etc. for a stage that appeared to be unlikely ......

 

[RedheadDane]

So... in Paris-Nice was it a perfect solution to basically have everything ready for the party and then having to send the guests home halfway through? Who was that solution right for? At least today we knew not to get our hopes up for a race, whereas in P-N TV literally got on just as the race was neutralised, and then cancelled; all we got to see was people getting into cars, and that random house.
In P-N starting and then running the risk of having to stop seemed like the right solution.
In T-A cancelling the stage even if the snow could potentially disappear overnight seemed like the right solution.
Neither solutions turned out to be perfect.

 

[trevim]

https://twitter.com/tonymartin85/status/709097150471389184

Apparently riding for Lefevere tends to lower one's IQ.

Indeed this is just beyond stupid.

HOW CAN A RIDER BE HAPPY TO HAVE A STAGE CANCELLED BECAUSE OF NON EXISTING SNOW ????

Where does he say he's happy because stage was cancelled? He just agrees that Nibali and Astana are overreacting just because it hurts their chances of this tirreno.

But thats not why they complained. They complained because there was absolutely no reason to cancel the stage.
To be honest though Martin really didn't say he was happy that the stage was cancelled but with his tweet he supported a tweet which insulted nibali and thats just stupid.

Precisely.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion and to think it was good or bad to cancel the stage. Supporting a tweet that offends the person (instead of disagreeing with him) it's just plain stupid and I really thought better of Martin.

 

[Mr.White]

https://twitter.com/tonymartin85/status/709097150471389184

Well, my respect for Tony Martin is gone...

 

[carolina]

paris-nice stage canceled after starting: vuillermoz crashed and was forced to abandon. fortunately, it was nothing to serious.

tirreno stage canceled the day before: no one gets hurt.

I'm not saying this was the right solution, because it clearly wasn't, but saying they did things right at paris-nice is a bit strange.

 

[hrotha]

Re:

paris-nice stage canceled after starting: vuillermoz crashed and was forced to abandon. fortunately, it was nothing to serious.

tirreno stage canceled the day before: no one gets hurt.

I'm not saying this was the right solution, because it clearly wasn't, but saying they did things right at paris-nice is a bit strange.

You know people still crash in great weather and that the only way to avoid that is not to race, ever.

 

[Gigs_98]

Re:

the economics of calling it a day early may make some sense. With the finances so tight for the organizers today having to pay for the equipment moves, setup, breakdown, etc. for a stage that appeared to be unlikely ......

That really must not be an excuse. If the weather forecast would have been good they would have had these costs as well so its not as if it these wer not planned costs.

 

[carolina]

Re: Re:

paris-nice stage canceled after starting: vuillermoz crashed and was forced to abandon. fortunately, it was nothing to serious.

tirreno stage canceled the day before: no one gets hurt.

I'm not saying this was the right solution, because it clearly wasn't, but saying they did things right at paris-nice is a bit strange.

You know people still crash in great weather and that the only way to avoid that is not to race, ever.

yes, I know, but with the weather conditions that day the probability for crashes was much higher.

I'm just saying that none of the two cases was perfect.

 

[veji11]

Re:

So... in Paris-Nice was it a perfect solution to basically have everything ready for the party and then having to send the guests home halfway through? Who was that solution right for? At least today we knew not to get our hopes up for a race, whereas in P-N TV literally got on just as the race was neutralised, and then cancelled; all we got to see was people getting into cars, and that random house.
In P-N starting and then running the risk of having to stop seemed like the right solution.
In T-A cancelling the stage even if the snow could potentially disappear overnight seemed like the right solution.
Neither solutions turned out to be perfect.

The Paris Nice solution was the right solution because road cycling takes place outside over great distances, because it happens in the wild, because roadcycling is not just a wattage contest, because takes place in the smeltering sun, in the rain, in the wind, because when you win on top of an MTF in the Giro under the snow, you are a goddamn champion, because when you win in PAris Roubaix in the mud and rain, you are a goddamn champion, because if you only race when the weather is sunny with light breeze and between 15 and 20 degres, than this is not road cycling, this is a wattage contest and this is what kills cycling.

Les forçats de la route, those heroes riding come what may, this champion crossing the line first because he withstood exhaustion more than the others, this is what is glorious about road cycling.. What we remember is the frigging face of Evans winning that Strade Bianche stage on the 2010 Giro, it's Pantani coming out of the fog and destroying a Jan Ulrich turning into a statue under the cold rain, it's the face of a Museeuw covered in mud in Roubaix, it's Nibali coming out of the snow to win in the 2013 Giro, etc...

This is how it's done, you ride it until it cannot be ridden anymore, that's how it is done, cycling suffers enough from it's reputation of being just a pharmaceutical wattage contest... Take away the "on the road come what may because that's what we do heroism" and all you have is formula one with calves and heart valves instead of engines. This is not what makes me dream for the last 25 years, this is not what made me cry when I saw Laurent Fignon defeated for 8 seconds.

That cancellation was a sham and a disgrace, they folded to the powers of money and influence, they crumpled instead of being the gardians of some sort of ethos. It might sound grandiloquent (and it is, I just had a drink) but god isn't it a shame to see what modern cycling has turned into sometimes.

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

paris-nice stage canceled after starting: vuillermoz crashed and was forced to abandon. fortunately, it was nothing to serious.

tirreno stage canceled the day before: no one gets hurt.

I'm not saying this was the right solution, because it clearly wasn't, but saying they did things right at paris-nice is a bit strange.

You know people still crash in great weather and that the only way to avoid that is not to race, ever.

1 million times this.

 

[Rollthedice]

Re: Re:

paris-nice stage canceled after starting: vuillermoz crashed and was forced to abandon. fortunately, it was nothing to serious.

tirreno stage canceled the day before: no one gets hurt.

I'm not saying this was the right solution, because it clearly wasn't, but saying they did things right at paris-nice is a bit strange.

You know people still crash in great weather and that the only way to avoid that is not to race, ever.

yes, I know, but with the weather conditions that day the probability for crashes was much higher.

I'm just saying that none of the two cases was perfect.

You understand that Nibali who disagreed with the decision was willing to face the probability for crashing? Why is that, because he's a "selfish moron" as that insignificant dude says on Twitter? Or because he is a real bike racer?

 

[veji11]

Re: Re:

paris-nice stage canceled after starting: vuillermoz crashed and was forced to abandon. fortunately, it was nothing to serious.

tirreno stage canceled the day before: no one gets hurt.

I'm not saying this was the right solution, because it clearly wasn't, but saying they did things right at paris-nice is a bit strange.

You know people still crash in great weather and that the only way to avoid that is not to race, ever.

yes, I know, but with the weather conditions that day the probability for crashes was much higher.

I'm just saying that none of the two cases was perfect.

Nothing is perfect but one is definitly worse than the other ! I mean come on, if we want to limit chances of falls to the max we just put the on home trainers and measure the watts. That's not cycling.