Tom Danielson

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

Danny Pate enjoying himself! Really going to town on Tommy. Mid way through a Letterman style Top 10 Danielson excuses.

https://twitter.com/thedpate

Curious, does this mean Pate was clean?

Pate? The world u23 TT champion from, eh, 2001?

I suppose he could be clean.

Ever wonder why a World U-23 Champion would stay riding in the US rather than go to the top league? Would seem unlikely that nobody would want him.

Pate rode with Saceo as a stagiare in 2000 and the experience seemed to have put the scares on him. Stories of house/team-mates walking around attahced to drips etc. He rode in the US for Prime Alliance and uber-ometra breaker team-mate Matt DeCanio listed Pate as one of his inspirations to stay clean.

Again, the story was JV had to convince him to give Europe a go with Slipstream and that he was pissed when they signed the Postal guys. Of course, these are all stories through the grapevine but they do accumulate to paint a picture.

Pate must be so happy riding on the team that hired ex USPS, Mick Barry, Sean Yates and Telekom's Mick Rodgers

Bet he jumped for joy when they hired doping Doc Geert Leinders

 

[the delgados]

@HelmutRoole:
JV is smart enough to know how to avoid someone pulling a Floyd. No way he would he leave himself open to whistle blowers after preaching the gospel all these years.
No doubt he knows TD dopes, but I'd be shocked if he knew of doping practices.
There will be no whispers in the ear and pats on the back.
He will become a pariah.

 

[HelmutRoole]

Don't you hate it when these cheats always say: "Let's wait for the B test."

What they should be doing is admitting their guilt, but in reality they are just hoping against hope for some kind of loophole that will get them off.

1998 world rr champion Oscar Camenzind: one positive, one no comment, one retirement. If that don't say, it is what it is, I don't know what does.

 

[HelmutRoole]

Re:

@HelmutRoole:
JV is smart enough to know how to avoid someone pulling a Floyd. No way he would he leave himself open to whistle blowers after preaching the gospel all these years.
No doubt he knows TD dopes, but I'd be shocked if he knew of doping practices.
There will be no whispers in the ear and pats on the back.
He will become a pariah.

I think you are right.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Don't you hate it when these cheats always say: "Let's wait for the B test."

What they should be doing is admitting their guilt, but in reality they are just hoping against hope for some kind of loophole that will get them off.

1998 world rr champion Oscar Camenzind: one positive, one no comment, one retirement. If that don't say, it is what it is, I don't know what does.

People who can rattle names and places and events off the top of their heads get mad respect from me. I am lucky if I can remember my own name.

Appreciate the example -- perfect.

 

[hrotha]

Story goes he told the testers he had just injected some EPO right before they knocked so he was totes going to test positive. I wonder why he didn't just pretend he wasn't home, though.

 

[Benotti69]

Re:

Story goes he told the testers he had just injected some EPO right before they knocked so he was totes going to test positive. I wonder why he didn't just pretend he wasn't home, though.

Danielson?

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Don't you hate it when these cheats always say: "Let's wait for the B test."

What they should be doing is admitting their guilt, but in reality they are just hoping against hope for some kind of loophole that will get them off.

1998 world rr champion Oscar Camenzind: one positive, one no comment, one retirement. If that don't say, it is what it is, I don't know what does.

Lithuanian biathlete Karolis Zlatkauskas, paraphrased: "yes, I did it. I wanted to qualify for the Olympics. Don't bother with the B sample, it'll just be the same."

 

[the delgados]

Re:

Story goes he told the testers he had just injected some EPO right before they knocked so he was totes going to test positive. I wonder why he didn't just pretend he wasn't home, though.

My guess he was high and so eager to meet the pizza delivery person that he just didn't give a *** when the dope testers arrived.
Prolly too hungry to pretend anymore.

 

[MacRoadie]

Re: Re:

Story goes he told the testers he had just injected some EPO right before they knocked so he was totes going to test positive. I wonder why he didn't just pretend he wasn't home, though.

My guess he was high and so eager to meet the pizza delivery person that he just didn't give a **** when the dope testers arrived.
Prolly too hungry to pretend anymore.

Was that EPO, or THC?

 

[Irondan]

Re: Re:

Story goes he told the testers he had just injected some EPO right before they knocked so he was totes going to test positive. I wonder why he didn't just pretend he wasn't home, though.

Danielson?

Camenzind.

 

[joe_papp]

Re:

JV's treatment of riders is poor at best. Tommy ain't getting any love now.

Oh man - c'monnnnnn!!!

JV continued to employ Danielson & others even AFTER they pleaded-out to serious, unambiguously-willful doping. In America we often give second chances, especially to favored sons and other higher-profile folks. But third chances? Not so much...

Barring some massively unlikely false positive, Danielson has no grounds to expect "any love now". Maybe if he'd been somewhat more cagey and suggested that the positive was due not to supplement contamination, but rather, contact-transference of transdermal Testosterone during love-making with a partner (M or F) who had recently applied a significant dose of Androgel™, then he'd have a plausible, but improbable excuse and some reason to expect more lovin'...

 

[Catwhoorg]

In quite a lot of the recent cases in UKAD the subject has waived their right to the B sample test.
It seems that people have realised that there is little to no chance of a B sample being messed up with more modern handling methods and chain of custody.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Re: Re:

JV's treatment of riders is poor at best. Tommy ain't getting any love now.

Oh man - c'monnnnnn!!!

JV continued to employ Danielson & others even AFTER they pleaded-out to serious, unambiguously-willful doping. In America we often give second chances, especially to favored sons and other higher-profile folks. But third chances? Not so much...

I think the meaning behind my post may have been unclear.

Colour me cynical but I saw it more as a chance to hire proven riders on the cheap, who mostly already knew how to dope without getting caught. Similar to the Ramunas "doping suspicion" hiring.

I don't expect JV to give Tommy love now, but also don't think he gave him any before - on balance it would have been in JV's favour.

 

[arthurvandelay]

Re: B test

In quite a lot of the recent cases in UKAD the subject has waived their right to the B sample test.
It seems that people have realised that there is little to no chance of a B sample being messed up with more modern handling methods and chain of custody.

I kind of like this. Don't get me wrong, I don't like dopers. But I give respect to anyone who does something really stupid then immediately takes responsibility rather than trying the usual pitiful obfuscation route.

I wonder if Tom Brady or Tom Danielson would consider doing this the next time they get caught cheating? Probably not.....

 

[WildspokeJoe]

Re: Re:

Danny Pate enjoying himself! Really going to town on Tommy. Mid way through a Letterman style Top 10 Danielson excuses.

https://twitter.com/thedpate

Curious, does this mean Pate was clean?

Pate? The world u23 TT champion from, eh, 2001?

I suppose he could be clean.

it is how you define clean.

recovery therapy?

doped a few times?

never show up in the urine?

has not flagged the bio passport?

never O2 vector technique?

Reference Pate: doped a few times with top shelf substances. <~~ A guess based on his performances and team associations. If true it makes his treatment of Danielson hypocritical... and stupid, if Danielson writes a tell-all.

Just looked on Pate's twitter page. Under his photo it says: One of the Handful. Which implies (at least to me) that he's one of the few that doesn't dope.

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

Just looked on Pate's twitter page. Under his photo it says: One of the Handful. Which implies (at least to me) that he's one of the few that doesn't dope.

Helmut wants to know about the u23 tt Worlds. And the breakaway at the Tour with the Spanish Disco rider and Simon Gerrans on the lumpy stage.

so, the question about doping definition. previously doped a few times, but gave up. What about that stage at the Tour? The pre TdF training camp in St Moritz. remember Millar and Van de Velde were target tested in the first week at the Tour, and Van de Velde was around 8th on GC on the final stage... so, cleans?

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

I can answer that... I think..

Clean is everything else than getting busted by anti-doping authorities...

Plenty of maneruing space inside that..

Clean is the new mean.....

this is what i meant.

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

Ever wonder why a World U-23 Champion would stay riding in the US rather than go to the top league? Would seem unlikely that nobody would want him.

Pate rode with Saceo as a stagiare in 2000 and the experience seemed to have put the scares on him. Stories of house/team-mates walking around attahced to drips etc. He rode in the US for Prime Alliance and uber-ometra breaker team-mate Matt DeCanio listed Pate as one of his inspirations to stay clean.

Again, the story was JV had to convince him to give Europe a go with Slipstream and that he was pissed when they signed the Postal guys. Of course, these are all stories through the grapevine but they do accumulate to paint a picture.

like Michael Barry? oh, whoops, bad example

 

[Dazed and Confused]

So the eskimo is still juicing. We are in the death and tax category.

 

[blackcat]

Re: B test

I kind of like this. Don't get me wrong, I don't like dopers. But I give respect to anyone who does something really stupid then immediately takes responsibility rather than trying the usual pitiful obfuscation route.

I wonder if Tom Brady or Tom Danielson would consider doing this the next time they get caught cheating? Probably not.....

i dont like dopers i dont dislike dopers

i dont like the use of the term doper as epithet

and who said they made bad decisions? or do you mean testing positive, not the actual doping.

like Matt Cooke said, we would not even know their names, they would not even be pros on the continent without the dope. as far as i see it, if cycling is an existential pursuit, and for most pros it is, then it is a pretty good decision to dope. and it is a pretty simple decision to justify

 

[IzzyStradlin]

Re: Re:

Reference Pate: doped a few times with top shelf substances. <~~ A guess based on his performances and team associations. If true it makes his treatment of Danielson hypocritical... and stupid, if Danielson writes a tell-all.

I have never heard any suspicion around Pate regarding doping. I have heard many other opinions about him which seem to be pretty consistent. They include:
Bad attitude
Doesn't take cycling seriously
doesnt like training
doesnt like cycling
just there for an easy paycheck
doesnt take anything seriously
very on/off personaliy, he either likes you or he doesnt and is very vocal about it

Guys that raced against him way back are still amazed by his motor, he could have been one of the best, but he is just beyond jaded. It's funny cuz he is like the anti-Sky rider, too heavy and little interest in gains, marginal or otherwise.

I am definitely confused by his twitter defense of froome over the past couple years. Froome is the type of rider that would have driven him crazy 10 years ago. But hey, a big paycheck and Sky lets him do his work and then f--- off. so????

 

[Irondan]

This has turned into a general doping discussion in which I guess that I'm complicit.

This thread needs to get back on topic and discuss Tom Danielson and his clinic material.

Please continue any general/Danny Pate doping talk in the proper thread.

 

[Alpe73]

Re: B test

... as far as i see it, if cycling is an existential pursuit, and for most pros it is, then it is a pretty good decision to dope. and it is a pretty simple decision to justify

Every once in awhile .... on the Clinic .... clarity.

 

[joe_papp]

Re: Re:

JV's treatment of riders is poor at best. Tommy ain't getting any love now.

Oh man - c'monnnnnn!!!

JV continued to employ Danielson & others even AFTER they pleaded-out to serious, unambiguously-willful doping. In America we often give second chances, especially to favored sons and other higher-profile folks. But third chances? Not so much...

I think the meaning behind my post may have been unclear.

Colour me cynical but I saw it more as a chance to hire proven riders on the cheap, who mostly already knew how to dope without getting caught. Similar to the Ramunas "doping suspicion" hiring.

I don't expect JV to give Tommy love now, but also don't think he gave him any before - on balance it would have been in JV's favour.

Fair enough - thanks for clarifying.

I don't think it's unreasonable for JV to take advantage of a rider's diminished market value when contracting them. After all - he is still willing to give them a contract.

Look to Leipheimer for example of a rider who did not enjoy such support from his team after he belatedly admitted to being a dope cheat.

I'm very glad that Dombrowski shined in Utah today. His performance undermines Danielson's relevance/significance to the team now even more.