Tom Danielson

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Nov 8, 2012
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D-Queued said:
joe_papp said:
scottymontrose said:
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How can you be sure VDV was EVER clean? His father was a pro, knew what was necessary to race in Europe, and was able to open every door at USCF/USACycling for his boy from day 1. Was Chris Carmichael still natl. team coach when VDV came through the system?
Every dollar he has in the bank is dirty, and he just keeps cashing in. What a joke.
I can't speak to Danielson's issues, but I will go out on a limb and say that VdV was clean at least for the time in 1996 when we were roommates on nat'l team.

The only thing he 'doped' w/ then was the air-conditioning, which he would turn up so high that hypothermia seemed a genuine risk.

Thanks Joe,

Hi Scott,

I have my sources, but I thought that story was pretty much common knowledge. It has been discussed here before, in multiple threads. And, it can probably be confirmed through the Reasoned Decision.

Lance didn't like VdV, and wouldn't let him in on the white bag program. Then, unbeknownst to Lance or VdV, there was a practice TT at one of the Postie training camps in Solvang where an undoped VdV beat Lance. JB falsified VdV's time, however, allegedly because he didn't want Lance to find out.
Thus, once upon a time a non-charged VdV beat a charged Lance in a TT. But, that was then...

Dave.

Annnnd that's all anyone really needs to know about LA & JB .... and sums up the doping culture of cycling in general.
 
Jul 18, 2014
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Watch the documentary "Blood Sweat & Gears: Racing Clean to the Tour de France". It follows the Garmin team around in the 2008 season as they want to get invited to the Tour. VDV talks about that experience in it........... or a very similar one He says he has the best performance of anyone on the team in a particular test, but was told he was second. He was happy that he was second, behind only Lance. Later he found out that he actually had the best performance but the team didn't want Lance to not be first. VDV said he understood and wouldn't want the team leader not to be first.
 
Apr 20, 2012
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Enrico Gimondi said:
Watch the documentary "Blood Sweat & Gears: Racing Clean to the Tour de France". It follows the Garmin team around in the 2008 season as they want to get invited to the Tour. VDV talks about that experience in it........... or a very similar one He says he has the best performance of anyone on the team in a particular test, but was told he was second. He was happy that he was second, behind only Lance. Later he found out that he actually had the best performance but the team didn't want Lance to not be first. VDV said he understood and wouldn't want the team leader not to be first.
If I was VdV I would be pretty pissed off by my stolen GT wins.

LOve that American Cycling Scene, so much potential winners.

And, love all the opinions.
 
Dec 7, 2010
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Re: B test

D-Queued said:
pmcg76 said:
...

That is kinda irrelevant, as the question is would we have known their names in a clean sport. They faced the choice and chose to play the game. That applied to almost everyone from that era. Vandevelde was regarded as the most talented rider at Postal according to testimonies but had a moderate career. Zabriskie, likewise good enough for US junior teams etc so clearly talented. Ryder, I think most Canadians viewed him as a big talent from a young age. Only Danielson really bucks that trend. Very hard who to say from that era had the talent to make it.

Cooke is as much a hypocrite as the rest. He was on Navigators(considered the dirty team in the US) but does anybody remember him busting their balls at the time? buddies with Phil Z and all. Or team Exergy where he was team-mates with one of the few US riders from that era who escaped any punishment, Fred Rodriguez. Did he ever call him out? From what I hear, Cooke was desperate to get a European gig but only started producing results into his 30s so nobody was interested. Clearly the rejection stung so he had to find another way to become relevant. I don't ever recall him being vocal on doping before last year.

Don't disagree with your core points, but am questioning the snapshot history of some of the ex-posties.

Of all of them, we know that VdV was talented without dope. 'cuz he beat Lance in a TT when Lance wouldn't let him party with the team's secret sauce.

Ryder at a young age (U-23) was getting taught by Rasmussen how to do EPO. It is inescapable that he was doping in some form prior to that as it is difficult to believe that he just woke up one morning with an epiphany, 'hey the chicken knows about EPO maybe I should try it even though I have never done anything before'. Though, as we know, Ryder is the only athlete ever to have his performance suffer after using EPO. :rolleyes:

Danielson not talented? Maybe. But, according to none other than Lance he was the heir apparent. Looks like that was the last time Lance endorsed him, though. Who knows, that praise may have been the sign that Lance was going to block TD from getting any opportunity for results lest he start to steal the spotlight.

Dave.
Thus that is why someone we know started calling VDV "yardstick". This seems a bit funny now but once upon a time VDV was clean in the end they all follow the same path.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Enrico Gimondi said:
Watch the documentary "Blood Sweat & Gears: Racing Clean to the Tour de France". It follows the Garmin team around in the 2008 season as they want to get invited to the Tour. VDV talks about that experience in it........... or a very similar one He says he has the best performance of anyone on the team in a particular test, but was told he was second. He was happy that he was second, behind only Lance. Later he found out that he actually had the best performance but the team didn't want Lance to not be first. VDV said he understood and wouldn't want the team leader not to be first.

D-Queued and others, I believe the original "story" came out of JV's mouth (Jonathan Vaughters) and it was a pre-season camp with Bruyneel and the team in America, so it would be sometime around 1999 or 2000 January, it would have to be after the first year of Lance at USPS, so after that Vuelta 3rd on general classification in 1998, or was it fourth overall? I think it was third, and I think the Vuelta was already in September on the calendar. Would it be a training camp before the TTT disaster in 2000 or 2001 when they took the fall and Vande Velde was one of those to crash (I could be wrong on this memory). Cos no doubt Armstrong and Bruyneel would have held it against them. I am thinking it was probably before, it was probably in 1999 or 2000, before Armstrong was Armstrong. But, my attempt at triangulating when this story was from, if perhaps futile, since the story may well be confected...

so it is after cancer, post Cofidis.

The story is about a "lactic test". Simple blood *** measurement test of the lactic acid in the blood. This was JV's words around 2007/8 when JV was attempting to build the mythology around Slipstream and Christian VdV,

I cannot for once believe there is this dovetailing of two similar stories regarding Bruyneel falsifying test results.

what would not be surprising, is if Bruyneel falsified one result. And indeed, there is a dependent variable, notably, Bruyneel's propensity to lying and his fealty to truth (lack of). it would be nothing for Bruyneel to lie. Howver, these two "stories" are too similar, to believe they have not been confected. Now this is a quandary, is it possible to smear Bruyneel, when Bruyneel is an utterly incredulous individual to begin?

So, even if D-Q read it in a book from critical journalists like Wheelmen authers Albergotti and OConnell, and their stringent and rigorous fact-checking, JV, Vaughters has already managed to poison the well on this story for me.

It will go down under the file of one of these cycling myths. It could well be true, as I said, both elements could be true. It is probably zero question, the Vande Velde had a prodigious talent. Most in the pro ranks do.

But these are the reasons, why I cannot give my unstinting belief to this tale.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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blackcat said:
Enrico Gimondi said:
Watch the documentary "Blood Sweat & Gears: Racing Clean to the Tour de France". It follows the Garmin team around in the 2008 season as they want to get invited to the Tour. VDV talks about that experience in it........... or a very similar one He says he has the best performance of anyone on the team in a particular test, but was told he was second. He was happy that he was second, behind only Lance. Later he found out that he actually had the best performance but the team didn't want Lance to not be first. VDV said he understood and wouldn't want the team leader not to be first.

D-Queued and others, I believe the original "story" came out of JV's mouth (Jonathan Vaughters)
...

But these are the reasons, why I cannot give my unstinting belief to this tale.
This.
tbh, it sort of baffles me that some people still take such stories at face value and present them as facts.
Considering the PR climate of 'perception is reality' Garmin have created, the only logical thing to do is to take those stories with a bit of skepticism. NB: that doesn't mean outright dismissing or denying them; simply means approaching them with healthy skepticism instead of reproducing them as facts.
Reality bites.
 
Mar 27, 2015
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so Pate was silenced down by Sky ? really ?! are you sure ?!? are you sure like you are sure everyone is doping ?!?!?!

Danny Pate ‏@TheDPate 6m6 minutes ago
Top 10 @tomdanielson Excuses, Number 2. ITS NOT WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE!!! Especially in AZ
 
Jul 21, 2012
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CM4Ew0PUAAEIiay.jpg:large
 
May 22, 2011
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filipo said:
FHhNWJN.png


ESCAPE CLEANLINESS

That is brilliant. Let's not forget back in the days before his first positive test TD loved to break records on various hillclimb courses around the US (Mount Washington, Mount Evans, etc.) These tend to be very low budget affairs so drug testing was rare. I guess he knows that he won't be tested while under suspension so now he can go all out with the needle and "break" KOM's on Strava. Pathetic. :D
 
Sep 29, 2012
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arthurvandelay said:
filipo said:
FHhNWJN.png


ESCAPE CLEANLINESS

That is brilliant. Let's not forget back in the days before his first positive test TD loved to break records on various hillclimb courses around the US (Mount Washington, Mount Evans, etc.) These tend to be very low budget affairs so drug testing was rare. I guess he knows that he won't be tested while under suspension so now he can go all out with the needle and "break" KOM's on Strava. Pathetic. :D

He would still be in the pool, so it is possible he gets tested.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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DirtyWorks said:
I've been too busy. Was TD's announcement ever made official by the UCI? Maybe he didn't get the memo he could encourage the positive to go away with a little money.
I too find it strange there is no USADA press release for Danielson. I also find it sad that, apparently, no one in the cycling media has thought to ask for one.
 
Aug 15, 2012
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Rogers apparently conducted an interview with him the day before he was notified, and stated he still planned on releasing it, but I've seen hide nor hair of it.
 
May 26, 2010
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HelmutRoole said:
DirtyWorks said:
I've been too busy. Was TD's announcement ever made official by the UCI? Maybe he didn't get the memo he could encourage the positive to go away with a little money.
I too find it strange there is no USADA press release for Danielson. I also find it sad that, apparently, no one in the cycling media has thought to ask for one.

When did the cycling media(or any sporting media* ) ever do it's job? These guys cant even be called journalists, paste and copy monkeys.

*there are exceptions but few and far between the fans with laptops.
 
Apr 3, 2011
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arthurvandelay said:
filipo said:
FHhNWJN.png


ESCAPE CLEANLINESS

That is brilliant. Let's not forget back in the days before his first positive test TD loved to break records on various hillclimb courses around the US (Mount Washington, Mount Evans, etc.) These tend to be very low budget affairs so drug testing was rare. I guess he knows that he won't be tested while under suspension so now he can go all out with the needle and "break" KOM's on Strava. Pathetic. :D

what's next - Alpe and Ventoux?