Teams & Riders Tom Dumoulin discussion thread

[Ripper]

It's a much better performance than Yates' sub-three hour marathon from last week, I would say.

Three hours is a realistic target for most male runners who train seriously. 32.5 on a 10 k isn't.

Yes. They're pretty different races in so many ways, so not super comparable, but for a bigger guy who is not a world class runner, that 10k was quite respectable.

 

[BlueRoads]

Aren't pretty much all top pro cyclists great runners? I mean, obviously you won't hear from many cases where they weren't great, but still, you hear quite often from them delivering really good times.

 

[tobydawq]

Aren't pretty much all top pro cyclists great runners? I mean, obviously you won't hear from many cases where they weren't great, but still, you hear quite often from them delivering really good times.

Not necessarily.

 

[Skijumper Roglic fan]

Not necessarily.

Pro cyclists‘ coaches actually advise them not to run. If they run, it‘s only in the off season (October/November).

Yates‘ marathon and Dumoulin‘s 10 kms both are super strong performances. I however was a bit shocked Yates and Dumoulin (and maybe others we don‘t know about) were allowed to run 10/42 kms, by their teams/coaches. 10 kms in 32 minutes and 42 kms in less than three hours could prove a problem for a pro cyclist‘s legs, after merely three or four weeks of running training.

 

[saunaking]

Pro cyclists‘ coaches actually advise them not to run. If they run, it‘s only in the off season (October/November).

Yates‘ marathon and Dumoulin‘s 10 kms both are super strong performances. I however was a bit shocked Yates and Dumoulin (and maybe others we don‘t know about) were allowed to run 10/42 kms, by their teams/coaches. 10 kms in 32 minutes and 42 kms in less than three hours could prove a problem for a pro cyclist‘s legs, after merely three or four weeks of running training.

I wouldnt say they are both super strong performances
Dumolin's 10k is by far more impressive, in fact if you enter his 10k time in most running race calculators its the equivalent of a 2:31 marathon

 

[Leinster]

Not necessarily.

I wouldn’t expect any of them to have the legs of a pro runner, but they’ve got the aerobic capacity which automatically puts them at a significant advantage over your average local ParkRun entrant.

 

[TourOfSardinia]

Wout would beat him
with a cross-bike on his shoulder
knee deep in mud
any day.

 

[Monte Serra]

Wout would beat him
with a cross-bike on his shoulder
knee deep in mud
any day.

Not so sure about that. Van Aert recently had a decent time over 10 miles (approx. 16 k). But his pace (4:24/km) didn't come close to Dumoulin's (3:19/km).

https://sporza.be/nl/2021/10/10/van...m-dacht-ik-is-dit-wel-vakantie~1633873417030/

 

[Red Rick]

Time to find the 60 riders that are better runners than Wout van Aert. It does make sense considering running is much more akin W/kg than putting out W/CdA. I would expect an Adam Yates to be a better runner than a Filippo Ganna

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

A decent runner runs 1 km in about 4-5 minutes. Above average exerciser.

This guy ran way below 4 minutes closer to 3 minutes. Thats close to elite level. They run about 2:40-50.

my sister is a decent runner and does 4.15 pace on km. Toms pace was a minute faster. That's quick...

 

[saunaking]

Tom can win Ironman

 

[Red Rick]

Tom Dumoulin sluit deelname aan een grote ronde in 2022 niet uit

Medio december gaat Jumbo-Visma naar Girona voor een eerste trainingskamp richting het seizoen 2022. Daar worden ook de seizoensindelingen van alle renners met de ploegleiders en coaches besproken. In een interview met Helden Magazine, dat vanaf vandaag in de winkels verkrijgbaar is, geeft Tom...

www.wielerflits.nl

Dumoulin saying he wants to go 100% for whatever he targets next year, basically saying he won't go to a GT if he's just there to be a domestique and he wants to win, but also explicitly saying that doesn't exclude GTs.

It's starting to smell like Giro d'Italia. Or still a co leader in the Tour, but whatevs.

 

[ice&fire]

I wouldnt say they are both super strong performances
Dumolin's 10k is by far more impressive, in fact if you enter his 10k time in most running race calculators its the equivalent of a 2:31 marathon

In my own experience, I'd never trust any running race calculators that predict marathon running times from 10k or half-marathon times. They underestimate the marathon running time by a large margin for non dedicated pro runners.
Dumulin's 10k is better tan Yates' marathon but not far more impressive.

Time to find the 60 riders that are better runners than Wout van Aert. It does make sense considering running is much more akin W/kg than putting out W/CdA. I would expect an Adam Yates to be a better runner than a Filippo Ganna

LOL, WvA running numbers are very unimpressive for an athlete of his class. I did a half-marathon at a faster pace than that and I was a fat nobody doing half-arsed training runs between work and beers.

 

[Red Rick]

In my own experience, I'd never trust any running race calculators that predict marathon running times from 10k or half-marathon times. They underestimate the marathon running time by a large margin for non dedicated pro runners.
Dumulin's 10k is better tan Yates' marathon but not far more impressive.


LOL, WvA running numbers are very unimpressive for an athlete of his class. I did a half-marathon at a faster pace than that and I was a fat nobody doing half-arsed training runs between work and beers.

One argument I'd make is in general runners who haven't done marathons yet won't have the experience with such duration of effort, whereas cyclists do such durations all the time, even if not all out.

Still Pidcocks running time is the only one that's truly crazy and that one seems way too fast to believe

 

[Sciatic]

In my own experience, I'd never trust any running race calculators that predict marathon running times from 10k or half-marathon times. They underestimate the marathon running time by a large margin for non dedicated pro runners.
Dumulin's 10k is better tan Yates' marathon but not far more impressive.


LOL, WvA running numbers are very unimpressive for an athlete of his class. I did a half-marathon at a faster pace than that and I was a fat nobody doing half-arsed training runs between work and beers.

You do realize (right?) that Dumoulin’s time was from a race and Van Aert’s was apparently just from a run around the neighborhood? He could have been trying to run off a hangover for all we know.
I mention it not because It matters who ran what, but because I’m amazed at how quickly folks use false equivalencies to jump to conclusions about one rider being better at something than another.

If riders posted how long it took them to vacuum their living room or sweep their porch folks would be checking the square footage and thickness of carpet to determine who was going to do better at the Ronde or the Tour next year.

On the other hand, we are really in the depths of the off-season, so I suppose having something to talk about is better than nothing!

 

[Krzysztof_O]

I wouldnt say they are both super strong performances
Dumolin's 10k is by far more impressive, in fact if you enter his 10k time in most running race calculators its the equivalent of a 2:31 marathon

Agreed. Dumoulin's time is even more impressive considering his weight. Maybe I would expect such a time from a feather weight climber (like Pidcock) but not from Dumo. Low body mass is even more important in running than in cycling.

One argument I'd make is in general runners who haven't done marathons yet won't have the experience with such duration of effort, whereas cyclists do such durations all the time, even if not all out.

Still Pidcocks running time is the only one that's truly crazy and that one seems way too fast to believe

What is interesting about cyclists is versatality they need to possess:

1. Ability to sustain (and recover from) very long efforts (superb endurance, aerobic efficiency)
2. Ability to hit turbo mode for a few or a few dozens of minutes (TTs, climbs), especially needed to be a top cyclist (high anaerobic threshold, lactate tolerance, VO2 max esp. for shorter "turbos")

In case of runners they are better at 1) (very long distance) or at 2) (long/middle distance) but don't need to be the best in both.

 

[More Strides than Rides]

Absolute weight matters much less in running than cycling up mountains. No runner is fighting gravity as directly as cyclists rolling up and down a mountain.

10k is easier to get closer to a 100% effort your first time/first few times out than a marathon. Experienced runners still take years to fully show their marathon potential, even after they are aging in the wrong direction.

I'm impressed by TD's 10k. Serious question: does anyone have any photos or know what shoes he is wearing? Same with Yate's marathon? I will also say that road races can be mis measured, but haven't looked into what event TD ran at.

For a non-runner, the new carbon fiber shoes can really be the missing piece. They are purported to impact running economy, something a non-runner but trained cyclist would have the least of but be most ready to capitalize on improvements in.

 

[Leinster]

Absolute weight matters much less in running than cycling up mountains. No runner is fighting gravity as directly as cyclists rolling up and down a mountain.

Disagree. A runner is lifting their whole body up with every stride. A cyclist is only fighting gravity on uphill gradients. The 5000m champion from Tokyo weighs 52kg! That's a 12:30 minute race.

 

[Monte Serra]

Serious question: does anyone have any photos or know what shoes he is wearing? Same with Yate's marathon? I will also say that road races can be mis measured, but haven't looked into what event TD ran at.

In the latest episode of the Cycling Podcast, it was reported by Daniel Friebe that Adam Yates ran his marathon on Vaporfly shoes. No info on Dumoulin's footwear. There were some pictures, but I'm personally not able to identify his shoes.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1459957554017030144

View: https://mobile.twitter.com/WielerFlits/status/1459957554017030144

 

[gregrowlerson]

Surprised nobody has weighed in with speculation on how much Froome will smash Dumoulin's 10k time by. Once he's recovered from his latest illness setback of course.

 

[Pirazziattacks]

In the latest episode of the Cycling Podcast, it was reported by Daniel Friebe that Adam Yates ran his marathon on Vaporfly shoes. No info on Dumoulin's footwear. There were some pictures, but I'm personally not able to identify his shoes.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1459957554017030144

View: https://mobile.twitter.com/WielerFlits/status/1459957554017030144

They look like Brooks, and not really a race oriented model either.

 

[Pirazziattacks]

Disagree. A runner is lifting their whole body up with every stride. A cyclist is only fighting gravity on uphill gradients. The 5000m champion from Tokyo weighs 52kg! That's a 12:30 minute race.

If anything elite level middle and long distance running is even more physiology restricted than cycling, any extra height and weight basically rules you out of being able to compete at that level with very few exceptions.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

Cycling is 1000x more cool than running

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

On the World Athletics points chart, 32:38 for 10 000m scores 744 points.

That is as valuable as
11.51 in 100m
4:12.9 in 1500m
2hr36 marathon

However, it was road rather than track, so we don't know the story in terms of gradients/wind, or the accuracy of the measurement.

Yate's 2h58 marathon is 461 points
12.67 for 100m
4:38.5 1500m
36:52 for 10 000

 

[Red Rick]

If anything elite level middle and long distance running is even more physiology restricted than cycling, any extra height and weight basically rules you out of being able to compete at that level with very few exceptions.

Minimum bike weight being the same for all riders is an additional equalizer in that regard.