Tom 'Pidders' Pidcock

[Extinction]

Nah, because to be there at that point in the Tour in that capacity, however you look at it, was exceptional for one who can also field sprint, TT and ride cobbles. Let's not forget he also won the double Mount Ventoux stage. If MVDP went all in for such feats, I very much doubt he would dominate the cobbled monuments or could achieve success. It's choices, but I still don't think MVDP is not as complete as Van Aert.

I didn't mention him taking a multi discipline approach in the context of CX/Road in any of my previous posts? Quite the opposite, I've said in two previous posts and now for a third time that having a CX/Road does not equate to what I would consider a multi discipline approach as the two disciplines do not run side by side on the calendar. My point was that he rides MTB and those races occur during the road racing program.

I've not even challenged the notion that he should not be considered part of the top 6. My initial response was to your post about the comparison with the top 6 being posted in the road racing forum and how any argument that he should not be considered a top 6 rider based on results/performances is flawed on the basis that he rides a different discipline (MTB) that not only runs concurrently with the road racing season but involves training and race efforts that are not conducive to performing in a discipline that places entirely different demands on the body.

He rode the Ardennes last year then did one month of MTB followed by 3 weeks of road training and into Suisse as prep for the TDF competing against riders who have spent the entire winter and road racing season up to that point training only for road and peaking for the TDF which was 3 weeks after Suisse some of which would have been to altitude before Suisse as well. It's pretty obvious that a month of one hour efforts followed by 3 weeks of road training is not optimal preparation for a 1 week mountainous stage race when all the competitors are nearing top form thus rendering any meaningful comparisons on the basis of results/performances void.

So What your claiming is that 1-2 month long MTB training blocks and races during the road racing calendar subsequently missing races and the necessary specific training has absolutely no influence on road racing performance and results?

So, you are saying let's base assessment on how he does with only a one-focuss all-in for the Tour and see how he does? But where is his TT, in a proper Tour, what is his true capacity in a GC hunt from the get-go?

 

[Stasat]

So, you are saying let's base assessment on how he does with only a one-focuss all-in for the Tour and see how he does? But where is his TT, in a proper Tour, what is his true capacity in a GC hunt from the get-go?

Nope. Didn't say anything even remotely related to this anywhere in any of my posts. I don't know why you've quoted a previous post of yours there? I didn't read that post let alone reply to it.

 

[Berniece]

I didn't mention him taking a multi discipline approach in the context of CX/Road in any of my previous posts? Quite the opposite, I've said in two previous posts and now for a third time that having a CX/Road does not equate to what I would consider a multi discipline approach as the two disciplines do not run side by side on the calendar. My point was that he rides MTB and those races occur during the road racing program.

I've not even challenged the notion that he should not be considered part of the top 6. My initial response was to your post about the comparison with the top 6 being posted in the road racing forum and how any argument that he should not be considered a top 6 rider based on results/performances is flawed on the basis that he rides a different discipline (MTB) that not only runs concurrently with the road racing season but involves training and race efforts that are not conducive to performing in a discipline that places entirely different demands on the body.

He rode the Ardennes last year then did one month of MTB followed by 3 weeks of road training and into Suisse as prep for the TDF competing against riders who have spent the entire winter and road racing season up to that point training only for road and peaking for the TDF which was 3 weeks after Suisse some of which would have been to altitude before Suisse as well. It's pretty obvious that a month of one hour efforts followed by 3 weeks of road training is not optimal preparation for a 1 week mountainous stage race when all the competitors are nearing top form thus rendering any meaningful comparisons on the basis of results/performances void.

So What your claiming is that 1-2 month long MTB training blocks and races during the road racing calendar subsequently missing races and the necessary specific training has absolutely no influence on road racing performance and results?

My point is that he doesn’t ride the results he was supposed to ride on the road. Fact that he also does other disciplines might be a cause of this, but that doesn’t change the fact that he doesn’t perform as well as they said he would.

 

[Stasat]

My point is that he doesn’t ride the results he was supposed to ride on the road. Fact that he also does other disciplines might be a cause of this, but that doesn’t change the fact that he doesn’t perform as well as they said he would.

The fact he rides another discipline in the middle of the road season definitely has an impact on this, it's not a case of it might have an impact.

I think the point I'm trying to make here is being misconstrued, I am not agreeing nor disagreeing that he should be considered part of a top a 6, just that it is a pointless argument on the basis that the prerequisites to support a determination wether that be for or against are not in place to do so.

Ask any coach they will tell you exactly the same, you cannot go from 1 hour efforts on a completely different bike with a different ride position and subsequently different loads on muscle groups & different energy systems then just jump on a road bike and expect to be at peak performance at the upper echelons of the sport where the differences between 1st & 10th are miniscule. That's not my opinion, it's fact. Van der Poel himself will confirm this, as he has done many times in the past;

“It is not yet decided (to do both MTB and road),” van der Poel told Olympics.com.

“We still have to make the puzzle. It's a really difficult combination, especially if you want to do the Tour de France as well. We have a few different scenarios on the table, but we have to see which one we're going to choose. I'll have to make choices, and I still have to think about it now.”

“It's difficult to mix for sure, but I think that the mountain bike is before the road race is an easier combination than the other way around,”

 

[Didinho]

It’s only the first time he’s really focusing on doing a good preparation for GC in the Tour. I think he can already top 5 this year.

But first Flèche and Liège. Also predicting top 5’s, if al goes well he can even win both. But Pogi will be a level above again on Sunday.

 

[awavey]

The fact he rides another discipline in the middle of the road season definitely has an impact on this, it's not a case of it might have an impact.

I think the point I'm trying to make here is being misconstrued, I am not agreeing nor disagreeing that he should be considered part of a top a 6, just that it is a pointless argument on the basis that the prerequisites to support a determination wether that be for or against are not in place to do so.

Ask any coach they will tell you exactly the same, you cannot go from 1 hour efforts on a completely different bike with a different ride position and subsequently different loads on muscle groups & different energy systems then just jump on a road bike and expect to be at peak performance at the upper echelons of the sport where the differences between 1st & 10th are miniscule. That's not my opinion, it's fact. Van der Poel himself will confirm this, as he has done many times in the past;

“It is not yet decided (to do both MTB and road),” van der Poel told Olympics.com.

“We still have to make the puzzle. It's a really difficult combination, especially if you want to do the Tour de France as well. We have a few different scenarios on the table, but we have to see which one we're going to choose. I'll have to make choices, and I still have to think about it now.”

“It's difficult to mix for sure, but I think that the mountain bike is before the road race is an easier combination than the other way around,”

But surely the mix he is talking about there is scheduling and prep, not that it's somehow difficult to physically ride two separate disciplines successfully, you wouldn't want two road races scheduled badly so you couldn't recover in time, but they never cater for multi discipline athletes at major championships.

 

[Stasat]

But surely the mix he is talking about there is scheduling and prep, not that it's somehow difficult to physically ride two separate disciplines successfully, you wouldn't want two road races scheduled badly so you couldn't recover in time, but they never cater for multi discipline athletes at major championships.

Yes both schedule & prep with the latter explaining the difficulty of competing at a high level in both hence the mention of the TDF and it not allowing specific prep for the physiological demands of MTB and vice versa. With the switch to road from MTB being the harder transition of the two. Road to MTB doesn't present the same problems but you still wont be in peak form for a one hour event with repeated Z5+ efforts coming off a 3 week tour, especially if you have ridden for GC where Z5+ is not going to be happening.

It's also worth bearing in mind that VDP will have the luxury of being able to train for one hour efforts during the Tour and then just ride in the groupetto @ Z2 and he still says the transition is difficult. Going for GC does not compliment one hour efforts that have a larger disparity between raw and normalised power.

 

[Ripper]

Pidders = overrated as a road cyclist

Still a pretty dang good cyclist though. And a natural at MTB

 

[Sciatic]

The fact he rides another discipline in the middle of the road season definitely has an impact on this, it's not a case of it might have an impact.

I think the point I'm trying to make here is being misconstrued, I am not agreeing nor disagreeing that he should be considered part of a top a 6, just that it is a pointless argument on the basis that the prerequisites to support a determination wether that be for or against are not in place to do so.

I’m not sure who you’re making your “point” to?
I haven’t seen comments saying Pidcock’s achievements and abilities across 3 disciplines aren’t impressive. It is impressive. And I think most here would agree that mixing the disciplines and having adjust from MTB to road racing is more challenging than if he solely raced on the road.
But I think that you’re also arguing we ought to care more about the adjustments he faces when evaluating him on the road. That’s just a matter of everyone’s personal take.
I mean, Ullrich had challenges adjusting from the party season to the road season and would have had better palmares if he stuck to one just discipline. But that didn’t add (for most folks) more luster to his achievements on the road

 

[Strawberry_Jams]

https://www.redbull.com/gb-en/theredbulletin/tom-pidcock-interview-2024?fbclid=PAAabGzuC8xEpjEVMDBrGkD9LwxZQqndXdsH2ePEvMvJjE_5U9n9nvsuYPztY_aem_Adnij57KmWAq3zliTrgUFKKRYQkKV7sJmsjCM_DKFvbXi8o_fa-a_9JlGQORuDUepHY