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Tommy Voeckler Discussion thread

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Aug 12, 2009
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Libertine Seguros said:
Yup, we're basically losing everybody who can be entertaining left right and centre at the moment. This is potentially going to be an even less interesting tour than 2009. Yuck.

Has Chavanel pulled out as well? Rollande? Vino?

Look, I admire the way Thomas Voeckler races at the Tour, he's been great entertainment the last few seasons, winning a stage or challenging, plus he wore yellow last year and with holding his mental snap chasing AC and Andy, he'd have made the podium. But I get your sentiment.

With the way racing has gone this year, the prospect of a Sky train does suck the life out of viewing. Evans, Menchov, Nibali, Gesink, JVDB, Franck Schleck, Rollande will all have something to say about that. Valverde and Cobo might as well. Cheer up, Sky won't bore the race out. Hopefully we see a lot of attacking like in 2007.
 
Galic Ho said:
Has Chavanel pulled out as well? Rollande? Vino?

Look, I admire the way Thomas Voeckler races at the Tour, he's been great entertainment the last few seasons, winning a stage or challenging, plus he wore yellow last year and with holding his mental snap chasing AC and Andy, he'd have made the podium. But I get your sentiment.

With the way racing has gone this year, the prospect of a Sky train does suck the life out of viewing. Evans, Menchov, Nibali, Gesink, JVDB, Franck Schleck, Rollande will all have something to say about that. Valverde and Cobo might as well. Cheer up, Sky won't bore the race out. Hopefully we see a lot of attacking like in 2007.
But the question is, where? Where is there to attack? It's going to be 5 UK Postal riders in the last 10, putting rider after rider out the back door, and the only guys who can animate the mountain stages will be rendered irrelevant enough by the TTs that Sky will just let them go.

I'm prepared for a race as bad as the Dauphiné, but much, much longer.
 
Aug 12, 2009
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Libertine Seguros said:
But the question is, where? Where is there to attack? It's going to be 5 UK Postal riders in the last 10, putting rider after rider out the back door, and the only guys who can animate the mountain stages will be rendered irrelevant enough by the TTs that Sky will just let them go.

I'm prepared for a race as bad as the Dauphiné, but much, much longer.

It's not going to be like that. Quite confident Porte and Rogers won't last in the mountains. Froome, yes, the rest of Sky, no. The Dauphine was lopsided. Few turned up to race seriously. No way 5 Sky riders suddenly transform to match all those big GC names who all have vastly superior climbing palmares than the Sky train. EBH will get swallowed in the Tour. Flats, sure Rogers, Porte and Boassan Hagan will be very useful. High mountains at the end of three weeks. Nope. Only Froome. Heck, Wiggins might have to help Froome if the Vuelta repeats itself.:D

If however you are more or less correct...I'll avert my eyes elsewhere. Very confident I won't have to. I'm still hoping Voeckler rides. Europcar are good for viewing purposes. Deserve all the praise they get.
 
Jul 10, 2010
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Christian said:
My absolute favourite memory of Voeckler is his epic battle to keep the yellow jersey as long as possible in 2004. He always looked completely smashed and Armstrong cool as always but still he was able to hold on to it for quite a while.
. . .

That was the best tour I have witnessed since 1989. No, actually, it was even better, because it was dramatic day after day after day. Tommy put in one of the bravest and most courageous performances I have ever seen. When he did so well again last year, I was screaming from the rooftop.

I am sad to hear his knee problem will probably keep him out of this TdF.

Chapeau, Tommy!
 
Jun 21, 2009
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Voecklers done...bad knee...bye bye tour...

If all accounts are even remotely true, then he's a tour no-show... too bad cos I'll really miss his ally cat fighter style. Let's it rip all hell bent even though he really shouldnt even be near the top of GC. When I have the desire to avoid some kind of suffering, I just think of him and Jens.
 
Libertine Seguros said:
But the question is, where? Where is there to attack? It's going to be 5 UK Postal riders in the last 10, putting rider after rider out the back door, and the only guys who can animate the mountain stages will be rendered irrelevant enough by the TTs that Sky will just let them go.

I'm prepared for a race as bad as the Dauphiné, but much, much longer.
Again, the problem is not the route. It offers plenty of opportunities if the climbers are willing to take risks.
 
roundabout said:
Perhaps you are stuck in the past and it's not the 80's anymore.
Of course it's not the 80s (I was thinking of the 90s though), but when the route is similar to all the routes that have provided a great show, and nothing happens, maybe the problem is not the route itself, but the attitude of the riders.

We've had this discussion virtually every single day during the Giro, and I don't feel like going through it again.
 
Actually let's go over it again.

Attitude of the riders? Take yesterdays stage in the TdS. Glaubenberg is a bit like Grand Colombier, irregular with a couple of steeper sections. Even the numbers are pretty similar (length and the average grade and the location in the stage).

The strongest climber in the race attacks with 5 or so km of climbing to go (judging by the 15 minutes or so it took him from the attack to the summit). Net result, 14 people arrive within seconds of the yellow jersey group.

What's more telling is the patronizing comment how the current pros are are clueless and probably should have started attacking somewhere just out of Sarnen.

Is this an example of a so called opportunity that this Tour presents? A 50+km attack over 90 minutes of racing? Of course by the standards of the 90's it may be expected, but again it's not the 90's. And it's not the attitude of riders that allowed Cavendish to win the ZLM Toer.

Let's go back to last year's Tour and the stage to Alpe d'Huez. Contador attacks on the early slopes of the Telegraphe with probably 30+ km to the summit of the Galibier. How many people crossed the Galibier within 2 minutes of him? Probably 50, if not more judging by the size of the group that came together at Bourg-d'Oissans. Sure, most of them were too knackered for the Alpe, but so was the principal attacker. It was entertaining and gutsy, but the result was "only" a 3rd place on the stage.

Fans do want a show, but the riders have their own interests. Forum comments how that was a great ride etc are well and good. But can they fully replace the time not gained/time lost because 1 rider strength may be insufficient now? A lot of things would have to align perfectly for a long range attack to be successful. Both upfront and behind. Only issue, is that fans don't seem to be interested whether the attack is successful. They merely want entertainment. And they seem happy to call the routes that would require more than one huge effort "balanced" with the upside for an attacker likely to be marginal.

But of course, it's the riders who have a "wrong" attitude. I personally don't like attacks with the red kite in sight. But I also prefer competition over entertainment, to have one group of riders not a priori disadvantaged by the route and burdened by the conflicting goals of providing entertainment for the masses and trying to get the best finish possible.

Between the 2012 Giro and the 2012 Tour concepts needs to be a middle ground.
 
Jul 17, 2009
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Mongolian Torque said:
If all accounts are even remotely true, then he's a tour no-show... too bad cos I'll really miss his ally cat fighter style. Let's it rip all hell bent even though he really shouldnt even be near the top of GC. When I have the desire to avoid some kind of suffering, I just think of him and Jens.

Or it could be a front for headlines because after all there is no mention of anyone remotely French in this years tour build up. but that is just my biased unsupported opinion.
 
Jul 10, 2009
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Boeing said:
Or it could be a front for headlines because after all there is no mention of anyone remotely French in this years tour build up. but that is just my biased unsupported opinion.
Nobody is talking about Rolland. I thought after his showing last year, he might be a rider for the future. I've been trying to keep an eye on his ITT results, and they seem to have gotten a little better.

Of course Voeckler missing the Tour also means he'll miss the French national championship. I was hoping to see Tommy in the Bleu, Blanc et Rouge again.
 
Zinoviev Letter said:
You say attitude, I say professionalism and organisation.

But when professionalism and organisation detracts from the spectacle, something has to change in order to maintain the sport. Look at the way F1 viewing figures declined during the Schumacher domination era. Was it highly professional? Sure. Well organised? Extremely. But declines in ratings figures in 2002 ranked between 8% and 20% in many markets, because people were not being entertained.

Yes, it's a sport, and yes, these people are beholden to win (or to place highly, for their teams' rankings and for bargaining power in contracts), but we as fans watch to be entertained, and the less we find it entertaining, the less we are likely to go out of our way to watch. Cycling is fine for now, but a prolonged period of disappointing racing could cause problems down the line.

The problems with the courses right now are not too great, other than that we are getting joke routes like the Dauphiné once in a while, and too many courses focus on the same kind of rider. We are in an era of tightly controlled racing, hence why I would like to see course designers take that into account and produce routes that make it harder to control. The problem with that is overkill; Zomegnan's response to harsh criticism of his 2004 and 2009 routes, and chronically poor viewership for flat and ITT stages in comparison to mountain stages, was to cram more and more mountains into the race until it was farcically unbalanced. But Zomegnan was always willing to try something new, and many fans loved him for it. Sometimes he was heading in the wrong direction, sometimes he completely screwed up. But at least he was trying. Too much of the time the Tour is all about doing the same old same old. They've used some of the new climbs that people were begging for this year... but they've made sure they aren't going to be too decisive. A brand new climb like Grand-Colombier? Zomegnan would have made that a big issue. Ignore that he would probably have put an MTF on it on a stage climbing it by three different routes whilst personally throwing barrels down the road to add to the challenge like a lunatic Italian Donkey Kong; he wouldn't waste a new climb as tough as that by putting 60+ flat kilometres after it.

But the Tour, much as though I dislike it, is not my major gripe. It is the Dauphiné. There are plenty of races that have had routes that have disappointed me in their lack of selectiveness given the level of control and the general high standard of top teams in today's péloton; several of the stages in California and Switzerland could have been great in years gone by, but now they're just fodder for a reduced bunch, where Sagan inevitably wins. The Dauphiné isn't like that. The ASO, since purchasing the race, have set out deliberately and consciously to kill it as an independent spectacle. It now always has a direct Tour visua stage, and its route is almost totally based on being preparation. It's always been a race used as preparation, but now they are intent on killing any other function for it; it's a reconnaissance ride with UCI points. The last good Dauphiné was 2009, but that was only because Valverde couldn't be at the Tour. If he hadn't been there it would have been group rides in all the main stages; on Ventoux Gesink and Fuglsang hit for home out of pure boredom. 2010, 2011 and 2012 were sorted out by the ITT, but at least in 2010 and 2011 the TT winner (of the GC candidates, allowing for Martin finishing ahead of Wiggins in the 2011 long TT) had to fight to earn their win. This year? Nothing. Nada. Zip.

Wiggins would have won anyway, his form was stupendous. But by the time they got to the one relevant climb, everybody other than Wiggins and Evans had been declared irrelevances anyway.
 
Jul 17, 2009
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The_Z_man said:
Nobody is talking about Rolland. I thought after his showing last year, he might be a rider for the future. I've been trying to keep an eye on his ITT results, and they seem to have gotten a little better.

Of course Voeckler missing the Tour also means he'll miss the French national championship. I was hoping to see Tommy in the Bleu, Blanc et Rouge again.

touche Rolland how could I
 
To Voeckler's chagrin, however, he felt that he was a marked man in the finale, where Jens Voigt (RadioShack-Nissan) bridged up to the leaders. "Everybody was watching me, but when Devenyns attacked nobody chased," he said, stripping off his polka dot jersey as he spoke. "I told them when I attack, you all chase, so now you can go and close him yourselves."

Love it.....
 
Jun 16, 2009
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Tomalaris and Sunderland were saying that Voeckler was a popular rider in the peloton. I got the impression that in reality he wasn't that popular. What is the truth here?
 
auscyclefan94 said:
Tomalaris and Sunderland were saying that Voeckler was a popular rider in the peloton. I got the impression that in reality he wasn't that popular. What is the truth here?

He isn't very popular in the peloton. And despite his attacking style he neither seems to be a favourite of many of the posters here.
very gutsy rider though. Has balls most GC men would dream to have.
 
the asian said:
He isn't very popular in the peloton. And despite his attacking style he neither seems to be a favourite of many of the posters here.
very gutsy rider though. Has balls most GC men would dream to have.

Considering how he rode on yesterdays climbs, especially on the Colombier with 50k's to go, I can totally understand that he isn't popular and also that the other riders marked him in the final and clearly didn't want him to win. Those absolute useless accelerations of 20m from the back of the group, then again softpedalling before accelerating again. He clearly didn't have the intention to go solo but just to hurt the others. And all this at a point of the race when it wasn't a sure thing that the break will stay clear until the finish and working together was the premise there.