Tour de France 2017 stage 4: Mondorf-les-Bains-Vittel 207 km

[Brullnux]

Re: Re:

Yea Bouhanni on FranceTV seriously pissed with Demare right now.

Classic Nacer.

Surely he knows that Démare had to pass Kristoff, right?

Yeah but Demare ran straight across him, it's fair enough to be pissed off.

 

[rhubroma]

Re: Tour de France 2017 stage 4: Mondorf-les-Bains-Vittel 20

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4atl-3Njwg

If you can all just watch from 0.52 - 0.56 of this video in 0.25x speed you will clearly see that Cavendish was following the barriers and Sagan moved over and elbowed him in. There's no need to complicate it, just watch the video.

Yep I see Sagan already thrust in that direction in Demare's wake, then a moment of stability perilously tight on the barriers, when Cav tried to get through. Too much for the Maxman to expect.

 

[Tonton]

Re: Tour de France 2017 stage 4: Mondorf-les-Bains-Vittel 20

I think that we should all cool down, take the passion out of it, and take a step back.

Either Cav' is coming from behind, hitting a gap that wasn't there. and Sagan tried to stay on his bike, that's it.

Or there was a gap, and Sagan closed it with his elbow. Whether Cav was starting to fall just before the elbow hit him or not is pretty much irrelevant then.

I'd like to see the first crash also, and see what Sagan's role was.

So was it Cav-mikaze doing something stupid, and he has a history, or Sagan being a punk, and he also has a history?

I would need to review the tape more times, see different angles, and I would guess that right now the officials are doing just that.

In any case, get well Cav.

 

[carton]

Re: Re:

Watch it again!

I have, a few times. Respectfully, I think your account is inaccurate. Sagan was in front, Cav bumps his torso, Sagan sticks out his shoulder. I think they should both be relegated, but I just think they should police sprinting more tightly, not just when crashes happen. In any case it's more Cav's fault than Sagan's, IMHO.

 

[Vroome.exe]

Re:

Sagan relegated to 115th, plus a 30 second time penalty...

Lol *** Sagan won't win a Tour anymore with that 30sec penalty...

 

[Supimilian]

Re: Re:

Sorry but Cav was behind, then tried to go inside, after Sagan had already been veering behind Demare in that direction.

Cav was already along side him when he pinched the inside (reason he flinched). When he went for the inside pass the gap was more than wide enough. Clear as day.
Unintentional by Sagan, but still not clean.
Cav did nothing wrong here and was unlucky.

 

[Ruby United]

Re: Re:

Everyone posting pictures here, just watch the helicopter video replay.
One picture shows nothing and is confusing.
Just watch what happened.

You know just as little about the intent as any of us.

Which is why I told you to watch for yourself and make a judgement instead of posting misleading pictures.

 

[Popchu]

Re: Re:

Yea Bouhanni on FranceTV seriously pissed with Demare right now.

Classic Nacer.

Surely he knows that Démare had to pass Kristoff, right?

I don't know what Bouhanni said on French Television, but what Démare did was not 100% correct in my opinion. I'm not saying he should be DSQ'ed, but I understand Bouhanni complains.

 

[Walkman]

Re: Tour de France 2017 stage 4: Mondorf-les-Bains-Vittel 20

http://i.imgur.com/9QTHNdI.jpg

Looks to me as if Cav was passing Sagan and getting on the wheel of Demare. Sagan cut infront of Cav and causing the crash.

 

[luckyboy]

It's more clear that Démare should be relegated than Sagan imo

 

[deValtos]

Re: Tour de France 2017 stage 4: Mondorf-les-Bains-Vittel 20

I'd like to see the first crash also, and see what Sagan's role was.

Here's the incident: https://u.nya.is/jdkpym.mp4

 

[Rvizzle]

Can we have some mountains now please? :- )

 

[Lexman]

nice maneuver by Demare almost riding Bouhanni off his bike...

 

[Brullnux]

Re: Tour de France 2017 stage 4: Mondorf-les-Bains-Vittel 20

I think that we should all cool down, take the passion out of it, and take a step back.

Either Cav' is coming from behind, hitting a gap that wasn't there. and Sagan tried to stay on his bike, that's it.

Or there was a gap, and Sagan closed it with his elbow. Whether Cav was starting to fall just before the elbow hit him or not is pretty much irrelevant then.

I'd like to see the first crash also, and see what Sagan's role was.

So was it Cav-mikaze doing something stupid, and he has a history, or Sagan being a punk, and he also has a history?

I would need to review the tape more times, see different angles, and I would guess that right now the officials are doing just that.

In any case, get well Cav.

Neither. Cavendish moved across to find a small gap, which although small was there, then Sagan began to move the same way and hit Cav and pushed him into a barrier. An elbow comes up which hits him (at least according to Cavendish) which almost certainly wasn't intentional but still reckless.

 

[Valv.Piti]

I cannot understand how people are saying what Démare did was worse. Sagan elbowed a rider in a sprint at 60 km/ph, please.

 

[Lexman]

Re: Tour de France 2017 stage 4: Mondorf-les-Bains-Vittel 20

http://i.imgur.com/9QTHNdI.jpg

Looks to me as if Cav was passing Sagan and getting on the wheel of Demare. Sagan cut infront of Cav and causing the crash.

those who say there was no space for Cav to pass should see this picture..

 

[Rvizzle]

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Bouhanni would have been DQed for what Demare did and jailed for what Sagan did

HAHAHAHA So true!

 

[shalgo]

Re: Re:

Having watched the replay about 5 times I can honestly say the most dangerous move was made by Demare. Didn't even see it the first 3 times because I was watching the Sagan/Cav crash.

Demare definitely deviated from his line much more than Sagan did, but I think it was less dangerous, both because he was moving away from the barriers, not towards them, and because he was moving faster than Bouhanni when he veered to the left, whereas Sagan was moving more slowly than Cav at the time they collided.

You could argue though his (Demares) movement was completely unnecessary because there was no one in front of him so swerving from his line is meh. Especially slamming into Bouhannis wheel.

I agree, Demare's move was unnecessary and deserving of a relegation. My point was just that it was less likely to lead to an injury.

 

[cineteq]

Re: Re:

This is all I needed it to see



Remember who was the guy who destroyed Haussler career?

 

[Bolder]

The elbow should be enough for relegation. Cav shouldn't have gone for that gap but I think Sagan knew he was there. I've watched the video a few times -- Demare was OK, just trying to make space, Sagan was fine in following but Cav should have gone left at that point.

But the elbow should not have been flicked, whether that took him down or not it sure looks intentional.

 

[Chomsky]

Cav had already established position before Sagan moved right cutting him off and pushing him into the barriers. Cav reacted by leaning into Sagan to create space and then Sagan pushed back throwing the elbow.

Clearly Cav had position and Sagan cut him off causing the crash. The elbow may have been for stabilization or likely a push back.

Sagan is lucky he did not get dqed. Deviating from his line and causing the crash was bad but the elbow makes things a whole lot worse. A lesser rider would have been dqed. Remember Renshaw getting dqed for a friendly headbutt.

 

[rhubroma]

Re: Re:

Sorry but Cav was behind, then tried to go inside, after Sagan had already been veering behind Demare in that direction.

Cav was already along side him when he pinched the inside (reason he flinched). When he went for the inside pass the gap was more than wide enough. Clear as day.
Unintentional by Sagan, but still not clean.
Cav did nothing wrong here and was unlucky.

First of all, it's terrible to see any rider go down at those speeds. But I have to disagree with you on this one. I don't see the gap you do. I mean that's tight. Cav took a huge risk, especially since Sagan and Demare had been moving in that direction just before he tried to pass.

 

[SeriousSam]

Re: Tour de France 2017 stage 4: Mondorf-les-Bains-Vittel 20

I don't really like Cavendish so I'm going to remember this incident as being his fault, which seems to be a respectable position held by some.

 

[Simurgh]

Re: Re:

Bouhanni would have been DQed for what Demare did and jailed for what Sagan did

HAHAHAHA So true!

:lol: :lol: truer words have never been spoken! Even though Nacer has built himself a reputation, it was over the top to listen to the commentators on TV2, who immediately blamed him :sad:

 

[Irondan]

Rolf Aldag calling for Sagan to be DQ'd.