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Tour de France 2017 stage 9: Nantua > Chambéry - 181,5 km

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Re: Re:

Leinster said:
dirkprovin said:
His move to Sunweb does allow him some starts that were (at least temporarily) not open at Orica with regards to cobbles and he can now seriously pursue the Green Jersey which was not going to be viable at a GC centred Orica. His main problem is the reality that he is of the same generation as Sagan and more often that not he may come up against him at many major races and his "win ratio" will be significantly less than it may have been without Sagan

How long you think Sunweb are going to hold off on throwing Dumoulin into the TdF GC battle? Unless there is 0km TT and 8 long summit finishes next year, I really can't see them not putting their weight behind Tom D.

Very good point and one I had at the back of my mind; methinks that Matthews will either have to prove himself the equal of Sagan (debateable); be willing to forego Green Jersey in favour of prioritising classics .... or start looking at other options. If it were not for his Green Jersey ambitions, Bling is the sort of classics fast guy who can be accomodated in a GC oriented GT team (at least on current team sizes) due to his capacity to win selective finishes, TTT utility and potential utility to work at times but I can understand his wish to pursue that ambition. Finding the right team ...
 
Re: Tour de France 2017 stage 9: Nantua > Chambéry - 181,5 k

DanielSong39 said:
No one waited for Majka, Porte, Dan Martin, Thomas, or Contador and no one was expected to. Yet everyone is expected to stop for Froome?

Let's think this one through before pointing any fingers.
is not Froome the are waiting on, its respect for the yellow jersey, if you want to take yellow, take it fair and square not in a middle of a mechanical problem. folk are getting their hate from Froome to super levels now
 
Re: Re:

Leinster said:
dirkprovin said:
His move to Sunweb does allow him some starts that were (at least temporarily) not open at Orica with regards to cobbles and he can now seriously pursue the Green Jersey which was not going to be viable at a GC centred Orica. His main problem is the reality that he is of the same generation as Sagan and more often that not he may come up against him at many major races and his "win ratio" will be significantly less than it may have been without Sagan

How long you think Sunweb are going to hold off on throwing Dumoulin into the TdF GC battle? Unless there is 0km TT and 8 long summit finishes next year, I really can't see them not putting their weight behind Tom D.

GC rider and Green Jersey can co-exist in a GT.
 
Re: Re:

yaco said:
Leinster said:
dirkprovin said:
His move to Sunweb does allow him some starts that were (at least temporarily) not open at Orica with regards to cobbles and he can now seriously pursue the Green Jersey which was not going to be viable at a GC centred Orica. His main problem is the reality that he is of the same generation as Sagan and more often that not he may come up against him at many major races and his "win ratio" will be significantly less than it may have been without Sagan

How long you think Sunweb are going to hold off on throwing Dumoulin into the TdF GC battle? Unless there is 0km TT and 8 long summit finishes next year, I really can't see them not putting their weight behind Tom D.

GC rider and Green Jersey can co-exist in a GT.

Yes, they can but its dependent on (1) the charactersistics of said Green Jersey aspirant and (2) how the points system in said GT is structured. With the mooted reduction in GT team sizes from 9 to 8, I would say that it becomes an even tougher proposition to manage. With the reduced team sizes, I could still see certain GC oriented teams maybe taking a fast guy to certain GTs but it would be dependant on that fast guy being survivable in the mountains, being largely self reliant/requiring no more than 1 support man and hopefully said fast guy + support even being useful at times to the GC campaign.
 
Re: Re:

Carols said:
Son of Amsterhammer said:
alspacka said:
Champ of the day was Kwiatkowski. Someone earlier noted he managed to finish 36 minutes down after only dropping on Mont du Chat, well he basically stopped and waited to help Majka.

https://twitter.com/GazetteDesSport/status/884075517334433793

that's awesome

Isn't that against the rules?


Lol what rules would that be against?

are cyclist not allowed to ride together now?

this is getting out of hand
 
Re:

Lupi33x said:
Australians are all poor bike handlers and all track riders. Most of the country is flat desert so its to be expected.
To win a grand tour you have to master all the aspects of riding.

Hope Richie gets well soon.

Most of them are good bike handlers because of the track cycling where they race at speed very closely. I don't know of any races through the desert except maybe in your mind. Evans was also a great bike handler.
 
Re: Re:

rick james said:
Carols said:
Son of Amsterhammer said:
alspacka said:
Champ of the day was Kwiatkowski. Someone earlier noted he managed to finish 36 minutes down after only dropping on Mont du Chat, well he basically stopped and waited to help Majka.

https://twitter.com/GazetteDesSport/status/884075517334433793

that's awesome

Isn't that against the rules?


Lol what rules would that be against?

are cyclist not allowed to ride together now?

this is getting out of hand
Well I recall an instance where the laterne rouge was ahead of the penultimate rider on GC on the last mountain stage and he wanted to finish last, so he waited for the other guy a few hundred meters before the finish so they could finish together. He was given a fine for unsporting behaviour or something, but that wasn't a direct penalty for stopping. Would have been funny if he'd been given a time penalty though :D
 
Re: Re:

movingtarget said:
Lupi33x said:
Australians are all poor bike handlers and all track riders. Most of the country is flat desert so its to be expected.
To win a grand tour you have to master all the aspects of riding.

Hope Richie gets well soon.

Most of them are good bike handlers because of the track cycling where they race at speed very closely. I don't know of any races through the desert except maybe in your mind. Evans was also a great bike handler.

Yes, a rather asinine generalisation. Yes, there's an awful lot of desert but next to no-one lives there. The bulk of the population lives along the coastal fringes which are hemmed in by mountain ranges. Not talking Himalayas or Andes but certainly far from all flat.

The track generalisation is also getting a little outdated. Whilst the Meyer/Matthews/Durbridge/Hepburn/Dennis generation all had track backgrounds; only Edmondson & Scotson of the following generation have any major track background. Porte's bike handling skills are most certainly questionable but he never rode track. Both McEwen & Evans had more than satisfactory bike handling capabilities; both from non track backgrounds.
 
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Re: Re:

Eagle said:
del1962 said:
alspacka said:
Champ of the day was Kwiatkowski. Someone earlier noted he managed to finish 36 minutes down after only dropping on Mont du Chat, well he basically stopped and waited to help Majka.

https://twitter.com/GazetteDesSport/status/884075517334433793

Looking at that clip looks like Kwiat had a crash (shorts ripped), was that before Chat?
I dont see any rip, where is it?

My mistake I thought I saw something, but on closer examination nothing
 
Re: Re:

Broccolidwarf said:
Lupi33x said:
Australians are all poor bike handlers and all track riders. Most of the country is flat desert so its to be expected.
To win a grand tour you have to master all the aspects of riding.

Hope Richie gets well soon.

He didn't crash because he is a poor bike handler

He crashed because his disc brake locked up.....

Source? Looked like he just misjudged the corner
 
Re: Re:

thiscocks said:
Broccolidwarf said:
Lupi33x said:
Australians are all poor bike handlers and all track riders. Most of the country is flat desert so its to be expected.
To win a grand tour you have to master all the aspects of riding.

Hope Richie gets well soon.

He didn't crash because he is a poor bike handler

He crashed because his disc brake locked up.....

Source? Looked like he just misjudged the corner

Also he wasn't riding a disc brake equipped bike, only rider using discs is Kittel
 
Re: Re:

valentius borealis said:
Ricco' said:
I think that the only thing that isn't allowed is riding on the opposite direction.

We don't know for sure if he stopped completely or stopped as in going very slow. A few years ago, Abdraimzhan Ishanov of Astana Continental Team pulled one of the most legendary moves of recent years at the Volta a Portugal, stopping to eat under a bridge when on a breakaway (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3p3ST55Zzk) and wasn't thrown out, so I guess it is allowed to stop (if not, how could someone stop to change a wheel or to do their natural breaks?).
What about the 3 riders who rode for about 3km in the opposite direction on the L'Aquila stage of the 2010 Giro?

I think it was Kashechkin who turned around and rode the other way to confront someone on the side of the road who had apparently punched him.

Pete
 
So many good stories yesterday.. Uram, Mathews, Barguil, the 3 fdj. Drama with Thomas, Porte, Martin, Majka..
The more good design stages, the more these physically+mentally gifted people will provide a show..
btw, already liked kiwa but what he's done so far in this tour and year turned me into a fan...
 
Re: Tour de France 2017 stage 9: Nantua > Chambéry - 181,5 k

rick james said:
DanielSong39 said:
No one waited for Majka, Porte, Dan Martin, Thomas, or Contador and no one was expected to. Yet everyone is expected to stop for Froome?

Let's think this one through before pointing any fingers.
is not Froome the are waiting on, its respect for the yellow jersey, if you want to take yellow, take it fair and square not in a middle of a mechanical problem. folk are getting their hate from Froome to super levels now

Respect for the jersey my chamois. Froome has taken a few too many liberties with his position for a while now. He changed bike for shifting issues, 20km from the finish of the queen stage, on the hardest mountain of the Tour, with the pace already high (set by his own team). He has no right to expect, demand, or receive favours from other riders/teams in that situation, the bike was rideable, suck it up and ride. Like Uran did, and won the stage.


Lupi33x said:
Australians are all poor bike handlers and all track riders. Most of the country is flat desert so its to be expected.
To win a grand tour you have to master all the aspects of riding.

Hope Richie gets well soon.

Cadel Evans and Phil Anderson and Robbie McEwan and Stu O'Grady all say you're a fair dinkum flaming galah, and don't come the raw prawn with us.
 
Re: Re:

Broccolidwarf said:
Lupi33x said:
Australians are all poor bike handlers and all track riders. Most of the country is flat desert so its to be expected.
To win a grand tour you have to master all the aspects of riding.

Hope Richie gets well soon.

He didn't crash because he is a poor bike handler

He crashed because his disc brake locked up.....

His brake locked up, because he misjudged a bend and had to brake.

He's not the worst bike handler in the world, but he's far from the best and has lost time on descents before. When it's brought up, usually his background in Tri is mentioned.
 
Re: Re:

thiscocks said:
Broccolidwarf said:
Lupi33x said:
Australians are all poor bike handlers and all track riders. Most of the country is flat desert so its to be expected.
To win a grand tour you have to master all the aspects of riding.

Hope Richie gets well soon.

He didn't crash because he is a poor bike handler

He crashed because his disc brake locked up.....

Source? Looked like he just misjudged the corner

Source is Dan Martin:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/dan-martin-the-tour-de-france-organisers-got-what-they-wanted/

I'm guessing that, outside of Porte himself, he is the best possible source ;)
 
Re: Re:

StryderHells said:
thiscocks said:
Broccolidwarf said:
Lupi33x said:
Australians are all poor bike handlers and all track riders. Most of the country is flat desert so its to be expected.
To win a grand tour you have to master all the aspects of riding.

Hope Richie gets well soon.

He didn't crash because he is a poor bike handler

He crashed because his disc brake locked up.....

Source? Looked like he just misjudged the corner

Also he wasn't riding a disc brake equipped bike, only rider using discs is Kittel

I must admit I didn't look if he was riding disc brakes...... I just assumed, because they have a tendency to lock up when decending....
 
Re: Tour de France 2017 stage 9: Nantua > Chambéry - 181,5 k

Leinster said:
rick james said:
DanielSong39 said:
No one waited for Majka, Porte, Dan Martin, Thomas, or Contador and no one was expected to. Yet everyone is expected to stop for Froome?

Let's think this one through before pointing any fingers.
is not Froome the are waiting on, its respect for the yellow jersey, if you want to take yellow, take it fair and square not in a middle of a mechanical problem. folk are getting their hate from Froome to super levels now

Respect for the jersey my chamois. Froome has taken a few too many liberties with his position for a while now. He changed bike for shifting issues, 20km from the finish of the queen stage, on the hardest mountain of the Tour, with the pace already high (set by his own team). He has no right to expect, demand, or receive favours from other riders/teams in that situation, the bike was rideable, suck it up and ride. Like Uran did, and won the stage.

QFT!
 
Re: Re:

Leinster said:
Broccolidwarf said:
Lupi33x said:
Australians are all poor bike handlers and all track riders. Most of the country is flat desert so its to be expected.
To win a grand tour you have to master all the aspects of riding.

Hope Richie gets well soon.

He didn't crash because he is a poor bike handler

He crashed because his disc brake locked up.....

His brake locked up, because he misjudged a bend and had to brake.

He's not the worst bike handler in the world, but he's far from the best and has lost time on descents before. When it's brought up, usually his background in Tri is mentioned.

Oh, by no means do I think he is a great decender..... I know he is not, Dauphine showed that clearly (again).... and I expected Froome, Fuglsang and Bardet to take time out of him on the last decent yesterday.

I was just taking issue with someone saying, that australians are poor bike handlers, because many get their start riding track..... It's - at best - an uninformed opinion :)