Tour de France 2020 | Stage 15 (Lyon - Grand Colombier, 174.5 km)

[Big Doopie]

But it didn't happen to him last year when the racing was even harder.

Harder?

Competition was much weaker.

And all cyclists are saying the level is highest ever this year.

He also benefitted from having G in his team and many climbs at higher altitude.

Also this is not a 100% thing I am talking about. Van impe finished on the podium and won a mountainous TDF. I am simply pointing out that smaller lighter climber types traditionally are MORE LIKELY (emphasis, not shouting) to get worn down and underperform in the mountains at some point. It doesn’t mean that happens 100% of the time. More likely. That’s all.

It does not take away from the fact that they are all extraordinary physical talents that can always put together a strong three weeks. It is just less likely. Lots of things need to fall into place. That’s all I am saying.

 

[ppanther92]

Looking at Strava data that was again very fast (like pretty much every climb for now):

Pogacar set a new KOM with 43:43 on the Colombier.

That was 2:29 faster than Roglic in the 2020 Tour de l'Ain.

4:35 faster than Pinot in the 2019 Tour de l'Ain.

3:47 faster than the leading group in the 2012 TdF.

 

[topt]

Vuelta has some mad climbs that might suit Bernal

I thought we are waiting for Loze

 

[topt]

I don't think that was gifted. There were a few points where I thought Wout or Tom might have pushed Roglic a little too hard. Mano a mano I don't think Roglic is better than Pogacar this year, or at least in this Tour.

well, he sure was 2 days ago, they are as close as it gets

 

[topt]

Pogacar is better at this point than Roglic and he recovers better. TJV seems to be lacking in distancing Pogacar and Dumo is not a in good position to attack. Pogacar has good chances.

he was better in todays finish but he wasnt 2 days ago

 

[Walkman]

What an awful stage. It seemed everyone was content with the pace of Jumbo. Did the right thing by watching F1 Tuscan GP at Mugello.

Its the reality of trains. Gesink said it himself a couple of years back. Something along the lines of: "There is no point in attacking when the SKY train is doing 400 watts". JV is too strong. Their sprinter is dropping the likes of Quintana and Bernal.

 

[Red Rick]

Find it very hard to see how Pogacar can dislodge Roglic tbh, unless Jumbo are gonna make the big mistake of making the race hard on Col de la Loze.

In fact I do think they have the option of putting Dumoulin back in contention in some stage 16-18 raid and force Pogacar to chase.

But then they Jumbo they wont do that.

 

[macbindle]

the points jersey battle will have a big impact on how far up the road a break gets

Well I think we know how that will turn out

 

[topcat]

Find it very hard to see how Pogacar can dislodge Roglic tbh, unless Jumbo are gonna make the big mistake of making the race hard on Col de la Loze.

In fact I do think they have the option of putting Dumoulin back in contention in some stage 16-18 raid and force Pogacar to chase.

But then they Jumbo they wont do that.

I think Jumbo will make the Loze hard to discourage attacks. I think Pog will attack on the Loze cause he can attack without losing 2nd place. It will be better than today but still like a dinner date without a kiss.
The highs and the Loze.

 

[janraaskalt]

In fact I do think they have the option of putting Dumoulin back in contention in some stage 16-18 raid and force Pogacar to chase.

Reality is that everyone will fight for their own top-10 spot. Which means that Porte, Uran, Lopez all will collaborate with Pogacar.

 

[Koronin]

The end was interesting. Did not expect Bernal to crack like that. Movistar's boys, specifically Mas and Valverde, are continuing to improve. Valverde has a chance for yet another one of his top 10 GT GC finishes. Roglic and Pogacar are looking like the class of the field.
I feel horrible for Higuita.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Looking at Strava data that was again very fast (like pretty much every climb for now):

Pogacar set a new KOM with 43:43 on the Colombier.

That was 2:29 faster than Roglic in the 2020 Tour de l'Ain.

4:35 faster than Pinot in the 2019 Tour de l'Ain.

3:47 faster than the leading group in the 2012 TdF.

And despite this, no big differences among top guys. TBH I'm a bit disturbed due to such a great climbing speed of many cyclists at this Tour.

 

[Fergoose]

A great example of how the race can be animated if the green or KotM jerseys are viewed with importance by teams. I think the race would be improved if those jerseys had the world tour points and prestige to elevate them way beyond a single stage win (as we are seeing with Green for some reason this year).

 

[Red Rick]

And despite this, no big differences among top guys. TBH I'm a bit disturbed due to such a great climbing speed of many cyclists at this Tour.

Yeah the main conclusion is that this side of the Grand Colombier is a bad climb that should never be a MTF again unless it's a stage 7 Unipuerto to compete with La Planche de Belles Filles

 

[Broccolidwarf]

Danish newspapers reporting, that Riis has removed all sodas from the NTT team bus, because the riders have not performed

 

[topcat]

Nothing wrong with the route.
Salary Cap? Not enforceable and cycling needs all the money it can get.
Team size? 3 is a magic number.
Prize money? All prize money for 1st place. Nothing for 2nd onwards and no poncing around on the podium for 2nd and 3rd places.

 

[bob.a.feet]

Danish newspapers reporting, that Riis has removed all sodas from the NTT team bus, because the riders have not performed

It's a funny situation Bjarne has gotten himself into. One of the best DS in the world at CSC/Saxo but know he's ended up at bloody NTT. It's like Guardiola managing Portsmouth.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Yeah the main conclusion is that this side of the Grand Colombier is a bad climb that should never be a MTF again unless it's a stage 7 Unipuerto to compete with La Planche de Belles Filles

Bad side? It's cyclists' role to make the race. I've seen interesting actions on climbs with 5-6% grade. What was wrong with Grand Colombier? It was arrhythmic, had long sections of steep gradients and large elevation gain. Perfect place to make differences from the bottom of the climb. But TJV was very strong (look how Dumoulin cought Yates), others were glad that the Colombians cracked and few would be able to successfully attack TJV anyway (maybe only Pogacar). What kind of profile would kill TJV earlier today? Surely not steady 7-8% gradient. They don't use Zoncolans and Anglirus at the Tour. Maybe Meribel will be enough, arguably hardest MTF in Tour history.

 

[Brumdog66]

Nothing wrong with the route.
Salary Cap? Not enforceable and cycling needs all the money it can get.
Team size? 3 is a magic number.
Prize money? All prize money for 1st place. Nothing for 2nd onwards and no poncing around on the podium for 2nd and 3rd places.

This years route is the best in a while but it lacks an early TT and unfortunately the one year you want Ineos to be strong they're weak.

 

[Leinster]

Its the reality of trains. Gesink said it himself a couple of years back. Something along the lines of: "There is no point in attacking when the SKY train is doing 400 watts". JV is too strong. Their sprinter is dropping the likes of Quintana and Bernal.

I’d be more concerned about VanAert dropping Quintana and Bernal if he was also dropping Porte, Valverde, Uran etc. As it is, it’s clear the 2 big name Colombians both had a bad day.

As Sky Train dominant as JV were today, they still haven’t been able to consistently burn off all contenders without isolating Roglic. If Roglic is happy to keep that going, and doesn’t feel the need to pad his advantage before the TT, then we aren’t going to see much more over the remaining stages.

 

[Rollthedice]

And despite this, no big differences among top guys. TBH I'm a bit disturbed due to such a great climbing speed of many cyclists at this Tour.

Very high level it is said.

 

[Breezy1985]

Yeah the main conclusion is that this side of the Grand Colombier is a bad climb that should never be a MTF again unless it's a stage 7 Unipuerto to compete with La Planche de Belles Filles

A team blew 7 minutes of the champion. Somehow I think ASO will be back here

 

[Libertine Seguros]

This side has been an MTF multiple times in the Tour de l'Ain. It's the increased pressure of the Tour and the deeper péloton that have impacted it more than anything else, plus a very passive GC battle.

Things we learnt today:

• Sepp Kuss won't ride even if it is a steep MTF. I forgot he mentioned the MTF had to be the steepest climb, so because the first climb of the day, the other shoulder of Grand Colombier, was steeper, he therefore sat in and did bupkiss. Loze or bust, Seppy.
• Everybody other than possibly Adam Yates has settled for falling backwards as slowly as possible, and if you're relying on Adam Yates, rather than Simon, to make the race, it isn't a good sign as he has been a fairly defensive rider when battling for GCs historically. However, he is spared the same level of opprobrium reserved for the others.
• The Giro Rosa had an uphill finish today which was 700m long. It featured just as much GC battling as the Tour stage finishing on a 17km HC mountain.

 

[Hihope]

And despite this, no big differences among top guys. TBH I'm a bit disturbed due to such a great climbing speed of many cyclists at this Tour.

The explanation seems to be right in front of us. Two of the Worlds best TT'ers, who happen to also be great climbers; WVA and Dumo.

 

[roundabout]

Yeah the main conclusion is that this side of the Grand Colombier is a bad climb that should never be a MTF again unless it's a stage 7 Unipuerto to compete with La Planche de Belles Filles

Usually going hard from the bottom had 10+ km of 1-on-1 team leader action. But that was Ain without very strong teams.