Tour de France 2020 | Stage 15 (Lyon - Grand Colombier, 174.5 km)

[Red Rick]

This side has been an MTF multiple times in the Tour de l'Ain. It's the increased pressure of the Tour and the deeper péloton that have impacted it more than anything else, plus a very passive GC battle.

Things we learnt today:

• Sepp Kuss won't ride even if it is a steep MTF. I forgot he mentioned the MTF had to be the steepest climb, so because the first climb of the day, the other shoulder of Grand Colombier, was steeper, he therefore sat in and did bupkiss. Loze or bust, Seppy.
• Everybody other than possibly Adam Yates has settled for falling backwards as slowly as possible, and if you're relying on Adam Yates, rather than Simon, to make the race, it isn't a good sign as he has been a fairly defensive rider when battling for GCs historically.
• The Giro Rosa had an uphill finish today which was 700m long. It featured just as much GC battling as the Tour stage finishing on a 17km HC mountain.

Yeah I had thought early attacks were very likely here but damn then Tour de l'Ain happened and I was really expecting not much. Maybe Pogacar attacking and him and Roglic once again holding hands to the finish. Maybe Dumoulin attacking to make Pog chase. But this was always the main possibility.

This is perhaps the worst side of the GC. The Fromentel side should be great for a pass/penultimate climb idea.

 

[Red Rick]

A team blew 7 minutes of the champion. Somehow I think ASO will be back here

The champion who finished 25th on the stage.

 

[Breezy1985]

But it didn't happen to him last year when the racing was even harder.

Last year he wasnt strongest in the mountains until Pinot pulled up and then had a load more cut from the route

 

[RedheadDane]

Now the ambulance is knocking riders down!

https://twitter.com/x/status/1305206135293607936

 

[Brumdog66]

Find it very hard to see how Pogacar can dislodge Roglic tbh, unless Jumbo are gonna make the big mistake of making the race hard on Col de la Loze.

In fact I do think they have the option of putting Dumoulin back in contention in some stage 16-18 raid and force Pogacar to chase.

But then they Jumbo they wont do that.

Gileres and the end of Loze is hard enough for an attack to stick if he's as good as Peyresourde

 

[Breezy1985]

Are people kinda fooling themselves into thinking that Bernal is an exceptional pure mountain goat like young Quintana was. Maybe people who watch a lot more of the smaller races can correct me on this but I dont see him as one of these guys who can blow away a field with a big attack. Not saying hes not a great rider but hes not a solo up a hole mountainside rider

 

[roundabout]

was it Higuita passing by?

 

[Breezy1985]

Now the ambulance is knocking riders down!

https://twitter.com/x/status/1305206135293607936

Was that Huiguita driving to the hospital

 

[Bardamu]

That's why you shouldn't let guys with concussions drive.

 

[Hihope]

Now the ambulance is knocking riders down!

https://twitter.com/x/status/1305206135293607936

[/QUOTE
Perhaps Hiquita was driving.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Yeah I had thought early attacks were very likely here but damn then Tour de l'Ain happened and I was really expecting not much. Maybe Pogacar attacking and him and Roglic once again holding hands to the finish. Maybe Dumoulin attacking to make Pog chase. But this was always the main possibility.

This is perhaps the worst side of the GC. The Fromentel side should be great for a pass/penultimate climb idea.

The biggest problem for me is that flat from the end of the Biche descent to Culoz, but I assume Culoz is paying so they can't do the Anglefort side. Really, there's nothing wrong with this mountain, it's inconsistent and offers more than enough incentive to race. However, with Bernal and Quintana distanced early, everybody else was just happy with where they sat and let Jumbo ride tempo into everybody. This climb has produced great racing several times in the Tour de l'Ain, but the Tour de l'Ain doesn't have as deep a field so the domestiques aren't as strong, and the Tour de l'Ain, being a smaller race, doesn't have the same importance paid by sponsors to minor placings, so going out to try and win is more important than preserving a good-but-not-great placing, and so there's less reason to be afraid of losing. That's been one of the Tour's biggest problems from a racing point of view as long as I've been watching the sport - the importance of a good placement is such that not losing time is more important than gaining time, leading to more conservative racing than you see elsewhere. In 2010 you had Vaughters put Zabriskie and Millar on the front and gun the péloton because the break had Plaza and Horner in it and their time gap threatened Ryder Hesjedal's 10th place (which he promptly then improved the next day while Plaza and Horner lost loads of time, tired from their break escapades the previous day). You had Pierre Rolland attacking IAM Cycling a few years ago because they chased down an attack of his so they could defend Matthias Fränk's 14th place. 14th!!! That kind of thing doesn't happen at the Tour de l'Ain for obvious reasons.

That said, there are plenty of platforms to work attacks from on this climb and I don't believe that every single rider in that group outside of Jumbo was absolutely at their limit. However as Jumbo were only using Dumoulin and then using Kuss to block people from getting further forward (not literally like Rabobank in the 2014 Giro Rosa, no, metaphorically), everybody was too afraid that any attack even if they dropped Dumoulin would be chased down by Kuss, so they just let Dumoulin pace them all the way up.

And whereas people came up with excuses for the soporific, disinterested racing on stage 6, the subsequent stages were the explanation. Tomorrow's a rest day. Realistically everybody was simply happy that with Quintana and Bernal dropping they had either gained 2-3 places (depending on where they were relative to Martin, too), or eliminated 2-3 competitors, so it never even occurred to them to do more, they'd already got a positive outcome from the day. That's the riders, not the climb.

 

[Gigs_98]

This years route is the best in a while but it lacks an early TT and unfortunately the one year you want Ineos to be strong they're weak.

This is a great point btw. It's so annoying that the first time someone turns up with a team to rival the Skineos dominance Skineos wouldn't be dominant anyway. It's not like JV being this good and Ineos and their leader struggeling is related. It's just tough luck.
Two super teams nuking each other mountain stage after mountain stage actually might have been great to watch

 

[Libertine Seguros]

This is a great point btw. It's so annoying that the first time someone turns up with a team to rival the Skineos dominance Skineos wouldn't be dominant anyway. It's not like JV being this good and Ineos and their leader struggeling is related. It's just tough luck.
Two super teams nuking each other mountain stage after mountain stage actually might have been great to watch

This is like in men's biathlon. We've been waiting almost a decade for somebody to be as strong as Martin Fourcade, and then when Johannes Thingnes Bø finally reaches that level, Martin loses part of a season to mono and is never as strong again, so we just swap one dominant athlete out and replace him with another. It's good as a novelty for a bit to not always be the same, until it becomes the same.

 

[BlueRoads]

Now the ambulance is knocking riders down!

https://twitter.com/x/status/1305206135293607936

and that it had to be Jungels...

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jne9t8sHpUc

 

[Lequack]

29 Big Photos from Stage 15 (more to come) — corvos/aso/bettini

2020 tour-de-france photos stage-15

www.steephill.tv

 

[Escarabajo]

Are people kinda fooling themselves into thinking that Bernal is an exceptional pure mountain goat like young Quintana was. Maybe people who watch a lot more of the smaller races can correct me on this but I dont see him as one of these guys who can blow away a field with a big attack. Not saying hes not a great rider but hes not a solo up a hole mountainside rider

There is no much information to conclude that. There is more information to conclude the other. And no, he is not a mountain goat like Quintana was but a more complete rider when in form.

I think he has an issue. This is not a normal performance.

 

[Red Rick]

The biggest problem for me is that flat from the end of the Biche descent to Culoz, but I assume Culoz is paying so they can't do the Anglefort side. Really, there's nothing wrong with this mountain, it's inconsistent and offers more than enough incentive to race. However, with Bernal and Quintana distanced early, everybody else was just happy with where they sat and let Jumbo ride tempo into everybody. This climb has produced great racing several times in the Tour de l'Ain, but the Tour de l'Ain doesn't have as deep a field so the domestiques aren't as strong, and the Tour de l'Ain, being a smaller race, doesn't have the same importance paid by sponsors to minor placings, so going out to try and win is more important than preserving a good-but-not-great placing, and so there's less reason to be afraid of losing. That's been one of the Tour's biggest problems from a racing point of view as long as I've been watching the sport - the importance of a good placement is such that not losing time is more important than gaining time, leading to more conservative racing than you see elsewhere. In 2010 you had Vaughters put Zabriskie and Millar on the front and gun the péloton because the break had Plaza and Horner in it and their time gap threatened Ryder Hesjedal's 10th place (which he promptly then improved the next day while Plaza and Horner lost loads of time, tired from their break escapades the previous day). You had Pierre Rolland attacking IAM Cycling a few years ago because they chased down an attack of his so they could defend Matthias Fränk's 14th place. 14th!!! That kind of thing doesn't happen at the Tour de l'Ain for obvious reasons.

That said, there are plenty of platforms to work attacks from on this climb and I don't believe that every single rider in that group outside of Jumbo was absolutely at their limit. However as Jumbo were only using Dumoulin and then using Kuss to block people from getting further forward (not literally like Rabobank in the 2014 Giro Rosa, no, metaphorically), everybody was too afraid that any attack even if they dropped Dumoulin would be chased down by Kuss, so they just let Dumoulin pace them all the way up.

And whereas people came up with excuses for the soporific, disinterested racing on stage 6, the subsequent stages were the explanation. Tomorrow's a rest day. Realistically everybody was simply happy that with Quintana and Bernal dropping they had either gained 2-3 places (depending on where they were relative to Martin, too), or eliminated 2-3 competitors, so it never even occurred to them to do more, they'd already got a positive outcome from the day. That's the riders, not the climb.

Well IMO if Dumoulin is good then attacking is pretty much suicide. It might be really raceable with weak teams but a Tour de France IMO really has to take team strengths into account and not produce climbs that make it mandatory to wait for the final 300m on anything but a suicide attack.

 

[Koronin]

This is a great point btw. It's so annoying that the first time someone turns up with a team to rival the Skineos dominance Skineos wouldn't be dominant anyway. It's not like JV being this good and Ineos and their leader struggeling is related. It's just tough luck.
Two super teams nuking each other mountain stage after mountain stage actually might have been great to watch

If only Pogacar had a team that could support him.

 

[Tonton]

Yeah I had thought early attacks were very likely here but damn then Tour de l'Ain happened and I was really expecting not much. Maybe Pogacar attacking and him and Roglic once again holding hands to the finish. Maybe Dumoulin attacking to make Pog chase. But this was always the main possibility.

This is perhaps the worst side of the GC. The Fromentel side should be great for a pass/penultimate climb idea.

GC via Anglefort would have been better, other than that I think that you guys are over critical. We had GC action and gaps. We don't often see two favorites in the top-5 losing significant time like we saw today. Maybe what we're starting to see is guys beginning to calculate and protect a 6th or 7th place, hoping that others will take risks that backfire. We see that every year and often one of these riders ends up on the podium, ninja style.

 

[Bardamu]

29 Big Photos from Stage 15 (more to come) — corvos/aso/bettini

2020 tour-de-france photos stage-15

www.steephill.tv

Wait do I see Tejay there? He's riding the TdF?

 

[BlueRoads]

Well, we obviously have a race here, it's Jumbots with Roglic vs. Pogacar without anyone.
Since Pogacar seems to be slightly stronger and we don't know who will win the TT it's a "fair" race.
Unfortunately the contenders are totally happy with the other one winning, instead of putting small needles of insults into each other or showing some adequate arrogance or at least having the decency to be unlikable, so that we can root for one and hate the other.
They are from the same country so it's not "but I'm British that's why I'm rooting for the Brit" or "I'm a New Zealander that's why I'm rooting for the underdog from the Fidjis".

What I find most annoying is the ongoing satisfaction with place 7 in the Tour. If we could get rid of that, maybe tie no 5-12 to a public stake and tar and feather them, we could actually get a race with people attacking. Or at least anybody getting 6th or 7th without ever getting a better result in their life shall be erased from all cycling books and magazines for all time.

 

[Red Rick]

GC via Anglefort would have been better, other than that I think that you guys are over critical. We had GC action and gaps. We don't often see two favorites in the top-5 losing significant time like we saw today. Maybe what we're starting to see is guys beginning to calculate and protect a 6th or 7th place, hoping that others will take risks that backfire. We see that every year and often one of these riders ends up on the podium, ninja style.

Quintana crashed badly, Bernal has whatever he has. These guys cracking isn't that much on the stage. If there's no MTF and the guys rip it on Col de Biche the crach too.

 

[Red Rick]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1305206135293607936

View: https://twitter.com/laflammerouge16/status/1305206135293607936

 

[RedheadDane]

Or at least anybody getting 6th or 7th without ever getting a better result in their life shall be erased from all cycling books and magazines for all time.

What if 6th or 7th is the best result that rider could possibly ever get?

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Well IMO if Dumoulin is good then attacking is pretty much suicide. It might be really raceable with weak teams but a Tour de France IMO really has to take team strengths into account and not produce climbs that make it mandatory to wait for the final 300m on anything but a suicide attack.

This might not be the toughest side of Grand Colombier, sure, but there is plenty about that climb that gives opportunities for attacking before the last 300m. Loads of steeper stretches all over the climb. It's no worse for attacking than, say, Madeleine North or Port de Balès, and a lot better than a lot of bigger but more consistent ascents.