Tour de France Tour De France 2021, stage 1 (Brest-Landerneau, 197.8 km)

[SafeBet]

Putting someone in jail certainly fits no reasonable definition of violence, which involves physical harm against someone. Beating them would. And I think it’s a couple of days in the county clink, not 5 years in the pen.

And who is calling for her “financial destitution”? I’m certainly not. I think a stiff fine would be quite appropriate, something on the order of several hundred Euro in addition to 3 days in jail. And no, fines are not perfect because of course several hundred Euro is nothing to one person but might be quite difficult for someone else. Life is complicated.

If you have a better idea on how to make someone pay for what I consider gross negligence, that’s great, I’m interested to hear it. Anyway, it’s a huge shame we’re even discussing it, it never should have happened. I’m sure we all agree it shouldn’t happen again.

The main question for me is how big of a deterrent the punishment of this fan would be for other fans in the future.
Because that's the issue.
I don't know what happened to the fan who made Nibali crash in 2018, but whatever his punishment was (if there was any) didn't change much in how fans behave on the roadside.

Overall, I agree she should be fined.

 

[wheresmybrakes]

I had to feel sorry for the lad who was minding his own business in the second crash, only for half a dozen riders to plow straight into him. I wonder if he could sue the Tour/riders for damages etc, if he came out of that with no injuries he did well.

 

[Red Rick]

Martin has 2 other realistic options that I can see. Brake or swerve to his left. Both cause mass crashes. He had no actual option here that avoids a crash. Blaming him for this is stupid.

Hopefully they find that person anyway and they make an example of her. It's the only way to dissuade people like that and preventing this happening in the future.

And do what? Do you think these people actually have the awareness of past incidents with cycling fans and their punishments?

I actually think punishing her super harshly does *** all

I think she should receive a significant fine but not face damages, etc.

 

[wirral]

Has CN removed the article from its news page or is my computer playing difficult?

 

[staubsauger]

I had to feel sorry for the lad who was minding his own business in the second crash, only for half a dozen riders to plow straight into him. I wonder if he could sue the Tour/riders for damages etc, if he came out of that with no injuries he did well.

That looked nasty indeed. But also the amount of riders crashing into Cyril Lemoine looked awful at first sight. Hopefully he has no serious injuries!

 

[King Of The Wolds]

I had to feel sorry for the lad who was minding his own business in the second crash, only for half a dozen riders to plow straight into him. I wonder if he could sue the Tour/riders for damages etc, if he came out of that with no injuries he did well.

Me too, but I've never understood the thinking behind going to watch live professional cycling on a downhill. The speed these guys move at, you just see a flash of colour on an uphill. Downhill, you probably just hear a whoosh.

 

[Netserk]

Analyzing the second crash: I'm not assigning blame, because the footage isn't clear to the cause, but the rider who fell was #224 Maxime Chevalier, and before he fell he was in close contact with #57 Dries Devenyns.

t01 10 3

Watch "t01 10 3 " on Streamable.

streamable.com

It's a touch of wheels with the UAE rider in front of him, Devenyns is not involved.

Screen dump

 

[Carrick-On-Seine]

Nah, he should have bunnyhopped the sign, yank the carbboard out of her hands on the way up and toss it into recycle bin on the way down.

Good idea but he would have picked up a fine from the UCI as it was outside the litter zone.

 

[geisterhome]

I am honestly gobsmacked by the amount of experience judging the situation.
When you are on the highway, and have a clear vision of a deer standing on your lane, while other lanes are full of traffic, and another truck is directly behind your car, what will you do?

1. try to drive around the deer, without crashing into other cars on lanes besides you, and with some luck you avoid too much damage collding with the deer?
2. hit the brakes hard and get smashed by the truck behind you?
3. swerve into the other lanes, crashing for sure with other cars?

Martin did what had the most chance of getting away with it: hitting the lady's arm (which was stretched out very far, and she probably tensioned her arm quite a lot to make sure her cardboard was stretched and readable), and hope for the best: not crashing and just having the impact of the spectactor.
Braking would be a 100% sure crash.
Swerving to the left, into the peloton, would have been a 100% sure crash.

He was the outermost rider on the very right of the street. The rider behind him was not in a straight lane behind him but a bit to his left. Also if you watch the footage you see that he had clear sight on that fan from rather far away already. He could have leaned a bit to the inside, how sprinters do it in the final all the time at a much higher pace without constantly causing mass crashes, creating himself a tiny bit of space would have been enough to avoid this.

 

[Broccolidwarf]

Essentially what you're proposing is transferring responsibility for a complex problem onto one individual who did something stupid. The reality is that race organisers cannot guarantee the safety of riders while continuing to allow for large crowds, full access tv coverage, large pelotons, and aggressive racing (i.e. using all of the road + more at times). Massive security presence and full barriers makes these events unviable. Banning crowds makes for a poor entertainment product and likely reduces sponsor interest. No one's going to DQ riders for getting too close to the edge of the road.

Every time this happens it's put down to individual stupidity, but the reality is that crowd behaviour and worldwide tv coverage makes these incidents inevitable. ASO and the UCI would accept that too, although they would never publicly admit it.

But if retribution in this one case makes you feel better, you're not worth the time of day.

What “complex problem”?

“Idiot stands in the road with a sign” is not complex, it’s just that: An idiot in the road with a sign.

Doesn’t get much less complex really.

 

[Broccolidwarf]

When u have clear vision of a fan, and that fan is looking in the opposite direction while standing in your way, maybe you should consider braking for once

Braking hard, suddenly, at 70 kph, with an entire peloton on your wheel?

What do you think would have happened next?

How any of you people can think Martin is to blame, is honestly beyond me.

 

[Broccolidwarf]

He was the outermost rider on the very right of the street. The rider behind him was not in a straight lane behind him but a bit to his left. Also if you watch the footage you see that he had clear sight on that fan from rather far away already. He could have leaned a bit to the inside, how sprinters do it in the final all the time at a much higher pace without constantly causing mass crashes, creating himself a tiny bit of space would have been enough to avoid this.

I don’t think you have ever ridden in a peloton, right?

 

[Carrick-On-Seine]

Changing the topic a bit, the medical report says that Dries Devenyns was one of the riders who had to be treated after the first crash. What a superb ride he did to set up JA.

 

[Axel Hangleck]

Braking hard, suddenly, at 70 kph, with an entire peloton on your wheel?

What do you think would have happened next?

How any of you people can think Martin is to blame, is honestly beyond me.

The fans shouldn't even be on the road; the road is the race track, the football pitch, the hockey arena, etc Get off it, and stay on the grass. I really feel the organisers need to get a little more hardline - asking politely to 'respect the riders' is of little use.

It reminds me of the Portuguese fan who blamed the Ford RS200 driver for going off in Sintra in 1986 when the road was blocked by hundreds of fans.....

 

[titan31]

Guess the French do have a law against it too as reading

Prosecutors meanwhile confirmed that they had opened a criminal enquiry for ‘deliberately violating safety regulations and so causing injuries that might prevent someone working for up to three months.’

This is an indictable offence in France punishable with up to a year in prison and a fine equivalent to just under £13,000.

Probably comes worse considering she left the scene and hasn't turned herself in too.

 

[RedheadDane]

Hang on... just realised something:
Right after the crash with Roglic the mechanic started running towards the front straight afterwards (from way back in the car-line)
Roglic finished on Vingegaard's bike.
Did the mechanic arrive at the crash-scene, only to be told that "Oh, he's got Jonas' bike."?
Did Vingegaard then get Roglic's bike, and finish on that?
Did they never, at any point during the remaining 40+ Ks of the stage - and I do recall it calming down a bit - look at each other and just... you know... swap back?

 

[BlueRoads]

Guess the French do have a law against it too as reading

Prosecutors meanwhile confirmed that they had opened a criminal enquiry for ‘deliberately violating safety regulations and so causing injuries that might prevent someone working for up to three months.’

This is an indictable offence in France punishable with up to a year in prison and a fine equivalent to just under £13,000.

Probably comes worse considering she left the scene and hasn't turned herself in too.

I read she's German?
But it wasn't me, I swear!

 

[RedheadDane]

I read she's German?
But it wasn't me, I swear!

Of course not! You'd never cause the riders to crash.

You'd just kidnap them straight outta the race!

 

[Escarabajo]

I heavily doubt that anything is going to happened with that lady that caused the crash. No judge is going to go for it. No way. I don't even think that 50% of the people standing on the road know anything about cycling. These people can only be helped by the other people who know something about it, if they are not drunk. Other things can be done to mitigate these kind of incidents. Maybe. Stages are long and there is a lot of open space for more idiots to cause crashes. Including the cyclists. Let's keep working with the organization for a safer race but let's not get carried away.

 

[gregrowlerson]

I read she's German?
But it wasn't me, I swear!

I don't know. Possible motive.

I think you wanted Schelling to win the stage

 

[Pirazziattacks]

What “complex problem”?

“Idiot stands in the road with a sign” is not complex, it’s just that: An idiot in the road with a sign.

Doesn’t get much less complex really.

It's always an idiot with a sign or a dog, flag, camera etc. Organisers try to reduce risk using barriers (also an issue) and security at finishes and near the top of climbs that are expected to be highly populated. Outside of that, there's only so much that can be done barring a drastic change in the way races are conducted.

 

[Kangaridoo]

Avoided how?

Where is he supposed to go exactly, to avoid a spectator holding a sign across his path?

Slowed down. Gone right of the spectator. Communicated with peers to move left and open up.

The senseless mowing into an obvious latent threat is not the best decision. I don't care if he has the right to the path.

You also don't continue biking straight if an obvious driver is turning their car right in front of you in traffic. Doesn't matter who has the moral high ground.

 

[Broccolidwarf]

It's always an idiot with a sign or a dog, flag, camera etc. Organisers try to reduce risk using barriers (also an issue) and security at finishes and near the top of climbs that are expected to be highly populated. Outside of that, there's only so much that can be done barring a drastic change in the way races are conducted.

Yes, and one of the things that CAN be done is, that if you stand in the road with a sign, like an idiot, endangering the riders, you will face criminal charges and/or get sued for damages.

It teaches all future spectators, that if they act with reckless abandon, and especially if it is just an act of self-promotion, there will be consequences.

It's why we have laws - because often just making people "feel bad", is not enough to make society work as intended.

As for wanting barriers, on both sides of 200K of road, to avoid morons standing in the road with signs - that can most definitely be done - if you increase the budget of the World Tour by around 1,000 % - and then we haven't even considered, that idiots can jump fences, so we need to hire around 5.000 security personnel, adding even further to the cost....... It's a pipe dream.

 

[Broccolidwarf]

I heavily doubt that anything is going to happened with that lady that caused the crash. No judge is going to go for it. No way. I don't even think that 50% of the people standing on the road know anything about cycling. These people can only be helped by the other people who know something about it, if they are not drunk.

That makes no sense.

You are not exempt from responsibility for your actions, just because you are spectating a sporting event.

There is no "but it was at a sporting event" defense, for reckless endangerment.

 

[Broccolidwarf]

Slowed down. Gone right of the spectator. Communicated with peers to move left and open up.

The senseless mowing into an obvious latent threat is not the best decision. I don't care if he has the right to the path.

You also don't continue biking straight if an obvious driver is turning their car right in front of you in traffic. Doesn't matter who has the moral high ground.

Have you even watched this?

He cant slow down without causing a crash, when going 70 kph with the peloton behind him.

He can't go right of the spectator, because there is another spectator (and a 2 meter deep ditch).

He has no time for communication or gestures.

I am honestly completely baffled by your post