Tour de France Tour De France 2021, stage 1 (Brest-Landerneau, 197.8 km)

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I heavily doubt that anything is going to happened with that lady that caused the crash. No judge is going to go for it. No way. I don't even think that 50% of the people standing on the road know anything about cycling. These people can only be helped by the other people who know something about it, if they are not drunk.
That makes no sense.

You are not exempt from responsibility for your actions, just because you are spectating a sporting event.

There is no "but it was at a sporting event" defense, for reckless endangerment.
 
Slowed down. Gone right of the spectator. Communicated with peers to move left and open up.

The senseless mowing into an obvious latent threat is not the best decision. I don't care if he has the right to the path.

You also don't continue biking straight if an obvious driver is turning their car right in front of you in traffic. Doesn't matter who has the moral high ground.
Have you even watched this?

He cant slow down without causing a crash, when going 70 kph with the peloton behind him.

He can't go right of the spectator, because there is another spectator (and a 2 meter deep ditch).

He has no time for communication or gestures.

I am honestly completely baffled by your post :rolleyes:
 
Hang on... just realised something:
Right after the crash with Roglic the mechanic started running towards the front straight afterwards (from way back in the car-line)
Roglic finished on Vingegaard's bike.
Did the mechanic arrive at the crash-scene, only to be told that "Oh, he's got Jonas' bike."?
Did Vingegaard then get Roglic's bike, and finish on that?
Did they never, at any point during the remaining 40+ Ks of the stage - and I do recall it calming down a bit - look at each other and just... you know... swap back?
Right after the crash there is very little information, and in that situation you don't wait but react (obv Roglic is main priority). When things calmed down and peloton was back together, it just didn't make sense to swap bikes again and risk something. Jonas and Roglic are similary build, so bike was very close to what he is used to.
 
Reactions: Sandisfan
Right after the crash there is very little information, and in that situation you don't wait but react (obv Roglic is main priority). When things calmed down and peloton was back together, it just didn't make sense to swap bikes again and risk something. Jonas and Roglic are similary build, so bike was very close to what he is used to.
Of course it's quite cool that the riders reacted so quickly they were able to put Roglic on a bike, and away before the mechnic even got there.
 
Reactions: jmdirt and Carols
Those are signaled, known before the race even starts and the DS always communicates their presence. Some of you lack basic cycling knowledge and it shows. I wonder how much did you ever got 50 km/h on a bike and see how "easy" is to avoid things.
This discussion is hopeless, always is. The most enthusiastic cycling fans ALWAYS defend the riders if they crash into something, no matter what and under which circumstances. Branches from trees, motorbikes in the side of the road - it's always "they should not be there - those people are idiots!" If only people would try to be more objective (AND, btw, read what people have written in the forum, not what they THINK they have written).
 
This discussion is hopeless, always is. The most enthusiastic cycling fans ALWAYS defend the riders if they crash into something, no matter what and under which circumstances. Branches from trees, motorbikes in the side of the road - it's always "they should not be there - those people are idiots!" If only people would try to be more objective (AND, btw, read what people have written in the forum, not what they THINK they have written).

You're right. Discussion is pointless. Under yesterday's circumstances riders (Tony Martin) are not at fault. He had nowhere to go to prevent any kind of crash. And going straight on, perhaps hoping that the woman will move aside (like most of the fans do and have to do!) was his best option.
It's not like he was alone on the road, it's not like he had the whole left side of the road. It's not like he could've go off road (Amrstrong-like). Plus with the stupid smile on that female's face, I tend to believe she moved further INTO the road once camera moto passed her. So no, Tony Martin probably didn't have "half an hour" to do something different. I really fail to see the point you're trying to make.
 
Have you even watched this?

He cant slow down without causing a crash, when going 70 kph with the peloton behind him.

He can't go right of the spectator, because there is another spectator (and a 2 meter deep ditch).

He has no time for communication or gestures.

I am honestly completely baffled by your post :rolleyes:
That's I don't care. Martin was way too unresponsive and seemed spitefully seek the confrontation which harmed the rest of the peloton. He could at least have tried something.

That's the reality. I don't care if he was rightfully deserving of the space. Most other riders wouldn't have taken down 80% of the peloton in that situation. There was plenty of time to act to reduce the magnitude of the damage.
 
You have seen mountain stages in the Tour, haven't you? Do the spectators stand outside of the road surface there?

Main differences are :
A. Speed is much lower.
B. Peloton is much smaller.

Don't you think it's much easier to react/move while riding at 20 kph in (say) 50 man (most of the time even smaller) peloton rather than at 40 kph in 180 man peloton?
So no, what happened yesterday is irrelevant to what happens in mountain stages. Pluus there many crashes in mountain stages caused by spectators as well. And reactions are the same. For a good reason.
 
That's I don't care. Martin was way too unresponsive and seemed spitefully seek the confrontation which harmed the rest of the peloton. He could at least have tried something.

That's the reality. I don't care if he was rightfully deserving of the space. Most other riders wouldn't have taken down 80% of the peloton in that situation. There was plenty of time to act to reduce the magnitude of the damage.
You think Martin wanted to take out his whole team and the rest of the peloton?
 
Oct 16, 2020
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Hi all, I made a tool to help quickly identify riders by start number. Thought it might be useful to people here too!

The app is called Who's That Rider? and it does what the name suggests — enter a start number and find out who the rider is.

I got access to some new data thanks to the guys at FirstCycling recently and I've updated the site/app for the Tour de France specifically yesterday.

You can now see the GC time/rank of the selected rider, and browse the overall GC standings too.

If you have any feedback or suggestions for new features, let me know!
 
You think Martin wanted to take out his whole team and the rest of the peloton?
No, but I think he was careless. Honestly, there was no one immediately behind him and he had a clear view of the stupid spectator straight ahead of him for a long time. And he did nothing. I think some policeman instinct wanted to teach someone a lesson and it hurt the rest of the peloton.

If you think it was coincidentally Martin this happened to, then go ahead and believe that...
 
Reactions: jmdirt
No, but I think he was careless. Honestly, there was no one immediately behind him and he had a clear view of the stupid spectator straight ahead of him for a long time. And he did nothing. I think some policeman instinct wanted to teach someone a lesson and it hurt the rest of the peloton.

If you think it was coincidentally Martin this happened to, then go ahead and believe that...
“I saw the lady, I saw the sign but at the last moment she turned the sign into the road so for me there was no time to react,” Martin said. “The move was pretty unexpected. I still can't understand how people can do things like that. We're here to race our bikes; it's not a circus.”
That's what Martin said and honestly, he has more credibility than you. Your entire thinking about the incident seems to be rooted in some bizarre preconception you have that Martin is some hyper-aggressive individual who harbours a deep-seated urge to dispense justice to people that he feels have committed transgressions against him. Frankly, you're projecting.

The incident was captured in full on camera and simply did not happen in the way that you keep describing.
 
You have seen mountain stages in the Tour, haven't you? Do the spectators stand outside of the road surface there?
Yes I've seen mountain stages for 60+ years, and they are Idiots!
You have seen mountain stages in the Tour, haven't you? Do the spectators stand outside of the road surface there?
This is as riduclous as your first post blaming Tony. Ignore on :).
 
That makes no sense.

You are not exempt from responsibility for your actions, just because you are spectating a sporting event.

There is no "but it was at a sporting event" defense, for reckless endangerment.
So would that change, if these people knew, that standing in the road to promote themselves on TV, while endangering the riders, would result in a lawsuit or criminal charges?
The difference is: Does something suddenly happen, something that a rider can't possibly foresee (like a guy stepping out in front of the riders)? Or is something there in front of the rider - something unexpected, but not moving? In the case of yesterday, I think it was the latter. Not that it was in any way a good thing to be standing there with a stupid sign. But it was one of the "hole in the road" things, not a collision with a moving object. Also, it was on a slightly uphill stretch, so there were similiarities to a classic climb with below average speeds and spectators standing close to the riders.
 
Yes, and one of the things that CAN be done is, that if you stand in the road with a sign, like an idiot, endangering the riders, you will face criminal charges and/or get sued for damages.

It teaches all future spectators, that if they act with reckless abandon, and especially if it is just an act of self-promotion, there will be consequences.

It's why we have laws - because often just making people "feel bad", is not enough to make society work as intended.

As for wanting barriers, on both sides of 200K of road, to avoid morons standing in the road with signs - that can most definitely be done - if you increase the budget of the World Tour by around 1,000 % - and then we haven't even considered, that idiots can jump fences, so we need to hire around 5.000 security personnel, adding even further to the cost....... It's a pipe dream.
Unless your idea is to have the caravan drive through warning people of extreme consequences if they disrupt the race instead of handing out merchandise and pumping people up, it doesn't work like that. It's not a stadium with assigned seating and security to sanitise crowd behaviour.

Spectators have done much more reckless and even malicious things to riders many times over the years, it's just particularly bad timing that caused such a bad pileup in this case. Even then, barriers don't stop people leaning over with cameras or flags from causing crashes.

Yes, I also said adding barriers isn't realistic?
 
And I've seen debates about this for 100+ years, and the fans can't (or refuse to) distinguish between moving objects and fixed objects. The debate is hopeless - from the blind fan perspective, it's never the riders' fault or responsibility, not even partly.
***! You're old.
Of course it's not "never the riders' fault", but with such idiot behaviour as what was on display yesterday; what the ***'s the riders gonna do?
She was indeed a "moving object", which means she should have moved her ass off the road (or not, you know, moved it onto the rode in the first place.)
 
He was the outermost rider on the very right of the street. The rider behind him was not in a straight lane behind him but a bit to his left. Also if you watch the footage you see that he had clear sight on that fan from rather far away already. He could have leaned a bit to the inside, how sprinters do it in the final all the time at a much higher pace without constantly causing mass crashes, creating himself a tiny bit of space would have been enough to avoid this.
While Martin isn't the greatest bike handler, that sign stuck faaaaar out. To suggest it was avoidable by leaning to the inside, sounds like defying physics and asking Tony Martin to find a wormhole.
 
That's I don't care. Martin was way too unresponsive and seemed spitefully seek the confrontation which harmed the rest of the peloton. He could at least have tried something.

That's the reality. I don't care if he was rightfully deserving of the space. Most other riders wouldn't have taken down 80% of the peloton in that situation. There was plenty of time to act to reduce the magnitude of the damage.
Clearly you are trolling - and if you are not, I have no interest in further dialogue.

Bye bye.
 
The difference is: Does something suddenly happen, something that a rider can't possibly foresee (like a guy stepping out in front of the riders)? Or is something there in front of the rider - something unexpected, but not moving? In the case of yesterday, I think it was the latter. Not that it was in any way a good thing to be standing there with a stupid sign. But it was one of the "hole in the road" things, not a collision with a moving object. Also, it was on a slightly uphill stretch, so there were similiarities to a classic climb with below average speeds and spectators standing close to the riders.
At times your posts are fairly informed.
Not in this case, and I can only surmise you have not really watched the incident closely.

Martin was not in front, he was in second position, and as he pulled around his teammate, the spectator is right there.

The notion that he had any time to think about how he wanted to handle the situation, is ridiculous.
His only options were "cause a crash" or "cause a crash".
 
Unless your idea is to have the caravan drive through warning people of extreme consequences if they disrupt the race instead of handing out merchandise and pumping people up, it doesn't work like that. It's not a stadium with assigned seating and security to sanitise crowd behaviour.

Spectators have done much more reckless and even malicious things to riders many times over the years, it's just particularly bad timing that caused such a bad pileup in this case. Even then, barriers don't stop people leaning over with cameras or flags from causing crashes.

Yes, I also said adding barriers isn't realistic?
MY IDEA?

Are you trolling too? :rolleyes:

The whole "blame the organisation for lack of security" thing is YOUR argument - I was merely pointing out how ridiculous and wholly unrealistic it is.
 
And I've seen debates about this for 100+ years, and the fans can't (or refuse to) distinguish between moving objects and fixed objects. The debate is hopeless - from the blind fan perspective, it's never the riders' fault or responsibility, not even partly.
Yes, debate is pointless, which is EXACTLY why legal action is needed.

- If nobody ever got a speeding ticket, far more people would be speeding.

It's a pretty basic logic, that guides most of how our societies and our laws work.

- unless of course you believe cycling fans are dumber than other people, and thus can't be expected to follow simply rules.
 

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