Tour de France Tour De France 2021, stage 1 (Brest-Landerneau, 197.8 km)

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Slowed down. Gone right of the spectator. Communicated with peers to move left and open up.

The senseless mowing into an obvious latent threat is not the best decision. I don't care if he has the right to the path.

You also don't continue biking straight if an obvious driver is turning their car right in front of you in traffic. Doesn't matter who has the moral high ground.
If riders swerved or braked every time a spectator leaned out in front of the peloton with a sign, flag, camera, etc, it would take twice as long to finish a stage, never mind causing additional crashes. Have you ever stood at a packed roadside for a Tour de France stage? Everyone, Even the non-crazy people, in the front row are leaning as far as possible to take a photo or to see around the people in front of them who are leaning out. Then everyone ducks backwards if the peloton is hugging their side of the road.
 
What makes you think that I've made up a new definition for violence on the spot? Do you think I'm the only person to hold such views?

How is me saying that calling for the financial destitution or imprisonment of this person is nasty and spiteful taking personal responsibility out of the equation? Do you really believe these are the only ways someone can or should take responsibility for their actions?
She should have to wash bikes for 5 hours every evening for the rest of the TdF. There, she's not losing her last penny.
 
Rog and Pog looked several levels above the rest. They clearly shadow boxed once together and didn’t want to commit and pull the other to a stage win.

Had either one of them gone on their own I feel very confident they would have caught and dropped Alaphillipe.

Great teamwork by DQS doing super aggressive mountain lead out peel offs to it the rest on the limit but with their disgusting pulling on the front after the first crash caused by fan action not a racing incident I was really hoping that anybody but Alaphillipe would be the winner.
We both watched different races. Actually I am having issues with Pogacar now.
 
Regarding the fan wrecked by several riders with 8 km to go (not that ignorant one earlier, but the other, innocent one), just watched the replay and noticed him actually standing there after the crash, limping a bit and probably with sore back, but otherwise looking more or less okay. So at least he did not seem to get too hurt... Good thing he kept his cycling helmet on!
 
Yes, debate is pointless, which is EXACTLY why legal action is needed.

- If nobody ever got a speeding ticket, far more people would be speeding.

It's a pretty basic logic, that guides most of how our societies and our laws work.

- unless of course you believe cycling fans are dumber than other people, and thus can't be expected to follow simply rules.
Speeding is not a good example. Tickets are given for speeding whether or not an accident occurs.

In the TdF. crazy fans are seen as plus for the ASO and sponsors. Only this time it backfired. Yesterday was good for the race organizers because because it got additional attention from non-cycling outlets. If there was no accident, they would have loved the sign as much as the pigs wearing "Vive Le Tour" sweaters or scarecrows on bicycles that they show all the time. No legal action will be taken against stupid fans go onto the road and run along riders in the mountains. Even the non-crazy fans encroach on the road. We still see fans who light flares as riders go by. Until recently, organizers were perfectly happy with sponsors handing out flesh-slicing gigantic pointy fingers.

The ASO likes crashes because its drama. One would think that a parked TV motorbike interfering with a big stage on Ventoux would be bad. But no, at every subsequent Route presentation the ASO plays Chris Froome running up the mountain as a historical highlight.

Race organizers and sponsors encourage this junk and then act shocked when something goes wrong. That's why it's hypocritical.
Instead of a speeding ticket a better example is if I invited hundreds of cobras into my home. Media outlets report on it and then I start making money by appearing in ads with my cobra. But then one of the cobras bite me. Should the blame be placed solely on the cobra. Will killing the cobra deter other cobras from biting people?
 
That's what Martin said and honestly, he has more credibility than you. Your entire thinking about the incident seems to be rooted in some bizarre preconception you have that Martin is some hyper-aggressive individual who harbours a deep-seated urge to dispense justice to people that he feels have committed transgressions against him. Frankly, you're projecting.

The incident was captured in full on camera and simply did not happen in the way that you keep describing.
Alright then. An actor implicated in the incident with a clear interest in reinforcing the most conformly understood no-blame position of self, giving a clearly, verifiably flawed recollection of what happened has spoken.

I guess I concur and all my arguments have now shattered into pieces.
 
Reactions: jmdirt
Speeding is not a good example. Tickets are given for speeding whether or not an accident occurs.

In the TdF. crazy fans are seen as plus for the ASO and sponsors. Only this time it backfired. Yesterday was good for the race organizers because because it got additional attention from non-cycling outlets. If there was no accident, they would have loved the sign as much as the pigs wearing "Vive Le Tour" sweaters or scarecrows on bicycles that they show all the time. No legal action will be taken against stupid fans go onto the road and run along riders in the mountains. Even the non-crazy fans encroach on the road. We still see fans who light flares as riders go by. Until recently, organizers were perfectly happy with sponsors handing out flesh-slicing gigantic pointy fingers.
I have no problem with spectators being charged for endangering riders, even if they are lucky nothing happens...... so my analogy absolutely holds up.

The rest seems to completely ignore the fact, that THIS particular spectator created a foreseeable dangerous situation, and any spectator that does that, should be charged and/or fined.

I don't care how they are dressed, or what their self-serving agenda is - if they make the race dangerous for the riders, or compromise the fairness of the race, they should be picked up and punished.

I cannot be much clearer than that.

End of story.
 
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What makes you think that I've made up a new definition for violence on the spot? Do you think I'm the only person to hold such views?

How is me saying that calling for the financial destitution or imprisonment of this person is nasty and spiteful taking personal responsibility out of the equation? Do you really believe these are the only ways someone can or should take responsibility for their actions?
...your rhetoric resembles the "de-fund the police" ridiculous agenda. I, like Red Flanders, also hope that compassion is what motivates you.
 
Reactions: Sandisfan
Alright then. An actor implicated in the incident with a clear interest in reinforcing the most conformly understood no-blame position of self, giving a clearly, verifiably flawed recollection of what happened has spoken.

I guess I concur and all my arguments have now shattered into pieces.
...and on the troll list you go. Have fun.
 
Reactions: jmdirt
Speeding is not a good example. Tickets are given for speeding whether or not an accident occurs.

In the TdF. crazy fans are seen as plus for the ASO and sponsors. Only this time it backfired. Yesterday was good for the race organizers because because it got additional attention from non-cycling outlets. If there was no accident, they would have loved the sign as much as the pigs wearing "Vive Le Tour" sweaters or scarecrows on bicycles that they show all the time. No legal action will be taken against stupid fans go onto the road and run along riders in the mountains. Even the non-crazy fans encroach on the road. We still see fans who light flares as riders go by. Until recently, organizers were perfectly happy with sponsors handing out flesh-slicing gigantic pointy fingers.

The ASO likes crashes because its drama. One would think that a parked TV motorbike interfering with a big stage on Ventoux would be bad. But no, at every subsequent Route presentation the ASO plays Chris Froome running up the mountain as a historical highlight.

Race organizers and sponsors encourage this junk and then act shocked when something goes wrong. That's why it's hypocritical.
Instead of a speeding ticket a better example is if I invited hundreds of cobras into my home. Media outlets report on it and then I start making money by appearing in ads with my cobra. But then one of the cobras bite me. Should the blame be placed solely on the cobra. Will killing the cobra deter other cobras from biting people?
Wait, that's a better example? :eek:
 
Regarding the fan wrecked by several riders with 8 km to go (not that ignorant one earlier, but the other, innocent one), just watched the replay and noticed him actually standing there after the crash, limping a bit and probably with sore back, but otherwise looking more or less okay. So at least he did not seem to get too hurt... Good thing he kept his cycling helmet on!
I did notice that his first reaction, on realising he was about to get hit, was to put his bike somewhere safe :)
 
Wait, that's a better example? :eek:
Actually, it would have been a better example if visitors came to my home to visit the snakes and one of them got bitten. So we kill the snake. But the visitors continue to come.
Speeding is a bad example because the pigs don't wait until someone causes an accident to ticket. But, in the case of races, nothing is done when spectators enter into the road or encroach on the riders. It's encouraged.
 
...your rhetoric resembles the "de-fund the police" ridiculous agenda. I, like Red Flanders, also hope that compassion is what motivates you.
Ah I see you would like to discuss FTP (no not the cycling one). And what does compassion have to do with any of this? It's just a bunch of people on the internet getting worked up over an incident that will be repeated whether this person is fined, imprisoned, or hung from the city gates- at which point the same people will say the same things and almost certainly fail to engage in any form of self reflection.
Putting someone in jail certainly fits no reasonable definition of violence, which involves physical harm against someone. Beating them would. And I think it’s a couple of days in the county clink, not 5 years in the pen.

And who is calling for her “financial destitution”? I’m certainly not. I think a stiff fine would be quite appropriate, something on the order of several hundred Euro in addition to 3 days in jail. And no, fines are not perfect because of course several hundred Euro is nothing to one person but might be quite difficult for someone else. Life is complicated.

If you have a better idea on how to make someone pay for what I consider gross negligence, that’s great, I’m interested to hear it. Anyway, it’s a huge shame we’re even discussing it, it never should have happened. I’m sure we all agree it shouldn’t happen again.
You've got a very narrow idea of what is reasonable. Reasonable in what sense?

As for the financial destitution thing, broccolidwarf is certainly all for that.
 
Actually, it would have been a better example if visitors came to my home to visit the snakes and one of them got bitten. So we kill the snake. But the visitors continue to come.
Speeding is a bad example because the pigs don't wait until someone causes an accident to ticket. But, in the case of races, nothing is done when spectators enter into the road or encroach on the riders. It's encouraged.
Not really.
 
Reactions: RedheadDane

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