Tour de France Tour de France 2023, stage 16: Passy - Combloux, 22.4k (ITT)

[Netserk]

I also enjoyed the Bonusgacar

And yeah, that wouldn't feel right, I guess I agree. Even if I am rooting for Pogi.

You can feel it in your bones. Bonus seconds are fake, the race would be better off without them.

 

[dobrien]

A day to savor coming up. Even before we know the outcome, just on setup alone this is one of the most consequential stages in Tour history. Two giants, tethered together and beating each other senseless, now off the leashes mano-a-mano. Heady stuff for cycling aficionados! I'm just hoping for a fair fight free of polemics; I know, a crazy thing to hope for.

 

[tobydawq]

You can feel it in your bones. Bonus seconds are fake, the race would be better off without them.

As I said, I don't think so in general. Just because it would feel strange hvaing one out of 40 Tours decided by them doesn't mean they should be abolished completely.

Then I'd rather see a longer or two TTs.

 

[Netserk]

So was the Vuelta 2008. Otherwise, Leipheimer would have beaten Contador. I guess that's what the people want to see.

I'm quite sure that is false. Most overlook the 1 bonus second Leipheimer got in an intermediate sprint.

 

[glassmoon]

Wout or Pog for win, Vingo 10-15s back. Not long/hard enough climb. The battle won't be decisive and the war will go on.

 

[meat puppet]

You can feel it in your bones. Bonus seconds are fake, the race would be better off without them.

I am not as categorical, but mostly agree.

As with all policy measures, re-introduction of the bonuses were a better or worse solution to problems perceived at the time. In this case, dull racing in the 2010s. Do we still have that? No. So do we need bonuses? Not really.

 

[tobydawq]

I'm quite sure that is false. Most overlook the 1 bonus second Leipheimer got in an intermediate sprint.

Okay, fair enough, I don't remember how all the bonus sprints in a race 15 years ago panned out. I can see that Contador got 48 seconds more at the finishes and won the race by 46 seconds and people back then said that that was it. And even if Leipheimer did get one bonus second, that still wouldn't bridge the difference.

 

[Bolder]

A day to savor coming up. Even before we know the outcome, just on setup alone this is one of the most consequential stages in Tour history. Two giants, tethered together and beating each other senseless, now off the leashes mano-a-mano. Heady stuff for cycling aficionados! I'm just hoping for a fair fight free of polemics; I know, a crazy thing to hope for.

Yeah, this could be epic; coming after Roglic's Giro miracle it could restore my faith in ITTs...I really have no idea who will win. On paper if Jonas is feeling good he could take 30 seconds or more, purely on w/kg. That said, when Pog goes thermonuclear he's otherworldly and it could be 30 seconds in his favor...

 

[Cassirer]

I think good Roglic would have lost max 30 seconds if even., top Roglic could even fight for the win...

I think the only rider to have a chance of fighting pog for the win in that tt would be 2023 jens voigt on the moto

 

[Bolder]

I am not as categorical, but mostly agree.

As with all policy measures, re-introduction of the bonuses were a better or worse solution to problems perceived at the time. In this case, dull racing in the 2010s. Do we still have that? No. So do we need bonuses? Not really.

I'm in favor of bonus seconds. In fact would love to see more of them. Kind of like a long track race at your local velodrome. They throw in a prime every few laps to wake up the field.

Maybe the bonuses should be money instead of seconds! Or a free meal! Or a gift certificate...thinking way outside the box...what if you have a 3-col stage, with a real time bonus at stake for the middle mountain, i.e. 1 minute? We'd see some crazy tactics -- do you go all out in the middle and hope to limit losses in the final climb, or save matches?

 

[Scarponi]

A day to savor coming up. Even before we know the outcome, just on setup alone this is one of the most consequential stages in Tour history. Two giants, tethered together and beating each other senseless, now off the leashes mano-a-mano. Heady stuff for cycling aficionados! I'm just hoping for a fair fight free of polemics; I know, a crazy thing to hope for.

Evans Vs Shleck TT was the closest and tense in history… jks

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

I think the only rider to have a chance of fighting pog for the win in that tt would be 2023 jens voigt on the moto

I sure hope so.

I really have no idea how this is going to play out, but Pogacar got like 5 weeks of TT bike training because of his wrist, so that might be a factor. In the end it might come down who has a faster bike change who knows.

 

[Salvarani]

I would be surprised if there are big gaps here between the two.

It will still be pretty close and it goes down tomorrow. I think they both been waiting for that stage, knowing it will the big decider.

 

[Netserk]

Okay, fair enough, I don't remember how all the bonus sprints in a race 15 years ago panned out. I can see that Contador got 48 seconds more at the finishes and won the race by 46 seconds and people back then said that that was it. And even if Leipheimer did get one bonus second, that still wouldn't bridge the difference.

I see I mixed up who got 3rd in an intermediate sprint.

Contador won two road stages and was 3rd twice as well: 2*20 + 2*8 = 56 bonus seconds at the finish line
Leipheimer was 2nd in a road stage: 12 bonus seconds.

So 44 seconds difference at the finish line, but Contador got 2 bonus seconds in an intermediate in the first week for a total of 46 seconds difference in the end. So it'd come down to the 1/100ths in the ITTs.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Imagine if this was a 40 km banger in this terrain, that would be funny, wouldn't it? 35 minutes is still enough to create some decent gaps, but man, Id love a proper 50 min-1 hourTT at this stage in the Tour. Or even more just for the heck of it.

 

[tobydawq]

I see I mixed up who got 3rd in an intermediate sprint.

Contador won two road stages and was 3rd twice as well: 2*20 + 2*8 = 56 bonus seconds at the finish line
Leipheimer was 2nd in a road stage: 12 bonus seconds.

So 44 seconds difference at the finish line, but Contador got 2 bonus seconds in an intermediate in the first week for a total of 46 seconds difference in the end. So it'd come down to the 1/100ths in the ITTs.

It seems I don't know the difference between the numbers 2 and 3 (Leipheimer's one podium placing).

 

[Bavarianrider]

Imagine if this was a 40 km banger in this terrain, that would be funny, wouldn't it? 35 minutes is still enough to create some decent gaps, but man, Id love a proper 50 min-1 hourTT at this stage in the Tour. Or even more just for the heck of it.

Nothing like the excitement before long Tour Time Trials. Sadly that demands too much brain capacity of new schoo fans. So these pointless gimmick routes is all we get.

 

[solo80k]

Nothing is certain, I bet Pog by 10-15 sec max but it can also go the opposite way. Top 10 within 1:30 from the winner.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Nothing like the excitement before long Tour Time Trials. Sadly that demands too much brain capacity of new schoo fans. So these pointless gimmick routes is all we get.

I do agree. Long time trials in a close GT-setting is some of the most exciting stuff in cycling

 

[KZD]

As much as I would like Pogačar to absolutely smash this, I think one should not expect big gaps between Pogačar and Vingegård. My bet is that Pogačar wins but the gap over Vingegård should be small but possibly large enough for him to take yellow.

The battle for the podium should also be interesting, Simon Yates is usually very strong in hilly time trials but I think he will lose around a minute to the first two and his brother Adam should be able to do something similar as he seems to be in better shape. Hindley will likely lose around 30 seconds and Rodriguez is a bit of unknown but I think he will be closer to the Yates.

I see some people thinking that Van Aert can challenge for the stage win but I disagree, although he is in good shape, this TT is so hard that I expect him to lose around a minute to the winner.

 

[topcat]

Best case scenario for me is Pog gaining > a minute in the TT.
Jumbo is forced to go bananas in the following stage, Pog has a bad day and Vingo retakes yellow.
Rainy day on Saturday and all hell breaks loose.

Overly optimistic. I like it.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

I sure hope so.

I really have no idea how this is going to play out, but Pogacar got like 5 weeks of TT bike training because of his wrist, so that might be a factor. In the end it might come down who has a faster bike change who knows.

dont think so..

Vingegaard had this ITT on his mind sinds march according to jumbo ds. They've put a lot of effort in this specific TT

 

[Stringerbellisnotdead]

No way Wout competes with Pog and JV on a route like this. Actually, surely no one finishes this within a minute of those two.

Tadej to win and get maillot jaune, Vingegaard 15-20s behind him. So roles reversed with basically the same, incredibly small gap before the queen stage. A.Yates 3rd on a stage and 3rd in GC.

 

[DNP-Old]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1681224806018998272

View: https://twitter.com/biciPRO1/status/1681224806018998272


This looks like a definitive bike change.

 

[Martinstranger]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1681224806018998272

s
View: https://twitter.com/biciPRO1/status/1681224806018998272


This looks like a definitive bike change.

Really interesting if we will see two different approches to the stage today. I think they both have had their eyes on this stage since forever and therefore have had a lot of time, to decide which approach they will have.
On some of the previous pages someone was speculating in mindgames and maybe it is a way to pressure Vingegaard to change his approach. I don't believe they even consider that at this point in time. They have both made their decision months ago and of course they will stick to that.