Tour de France Tour de France 2024, Stage 4: Pinerolo > Valloire, 139.6 km

[Devil's Elbow]

The French...

20. G.Martin +4:01
43. R. Bardet +9:53

FDJ not at the finish yet.

You know it's bad when Jordan Jegat of all people is your second guy across the line on the first big mountain stage. Where the bigger fish are concerned, France are firmly back in the doldrums.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Pogacar waited for the final km because it is harder and there was a strong headwind. People just love to blame. Enjoy him now, we won't see something similar in a long long period!

 

[Penninepeddler]

What has happened to Simon Yates?

He was always the slightly better brother until they went their seperate ways.

Though last year looked to be back in some level of form.

And this year just seems another BIG step down, pretty consistently from the start of the season.

 

[snipeheem]

Given the TT on stage 7 would expect Vingegaard to get a fair amount of those seconds back...

then stage 9 might get interesting with Visma being more suited to it.

And guess Pogi might get some seconds on stage 11.

But the big questions now are:

Can Vingegaard be back up near his usual level in 11 days time for stage 14?
Are Visma able to actually help him? Because that was pathetic really.

Jorgenson looked like a Ardennes classic rider and not a GC helper when the going got tough. Certainly not Kuss right now is he?

Pogi will kill jonas at TT

 

[Gigs_98]

There are 8 riders on a different planet versus the rest of the peloton.

The big question is what their respective form curve is going to be. Things could change quite dramatically in the third week.

UAE did what I expected them to on the Galibier (& I'd have done the same), but Vingegaard isn't out of this. I'd say the others aren't either. It wasn't Grand-Bornand 2021, that's for sure.

The ITT's are going to be very important.

I think many time gaps today are super misleading. There was a section on Galibier where Almeida pushed super hard and brought it down pretty much to the same riders that were still there with 1km to go. Then the pace dropped a bit and everyone still in the group massively benefited from the slipstream while everyone caught behind at that point lost out massively due to riding the rest of the climb in the wind. I don't thing people like Gall finishing 2 minutes behind the rest is a good representation for how strong he was compared to Roglic.

Similarly I don't think Pogacar was way better than Vingegaard today, the descent just massively amplified the gap. Their performance gap on Marie Blanque last year was definitely bigger.

 

[ppanther92]

Ullrich on German Eurosport saying that Ayuso's behavior might lead to problems down the line, less so for challenging Pogacar but rather that Almeida and Yates will at some point ask - "why do we go full in, and this guy gets rewarded for setting a fake pace at front".

Valid point.

 

[movingtarget]

Hindley was dropped early as was Vlasov ....Roglic was also alone

Not a good day for Bora. Roglic looked to be struggling near the end of the climb but recovered a little on the descent but he's already lost over a minute to Pogacar.

Adam Yates riding better than his brother as a domestique. Adam seems to be the better grand tour rider these days.

 

[Tricycle Rider]

One has to think what Pogacar would have done in a tailwind...

He would have flown off the mountain like a jet taking off an aircraft carrier!

 

[Tim Cahill]

Part of me was hoping Ayuso managed to Valverde those guys and take 2nd on the line, just for the pure shamelessness of it all.

 

[ppanther92]

I don't thing people like Gall finishing 2 minutes behind the rest is a good representation for how strong he was compared to Roglic.

Same thought. Think Ciccone, Gall, Bernal were closer to Roglic than Roglic to most guys he finished with. But he hang in there and then benefited from the slipstream and Rodriguez' wheel going downhill.

 

[Brullnux]

I think many time gaps today are super misleading. There was a section on Galibier where Almeida pushed super hard and brought it down pretty much to the same riders that were still there with 1km to go. Then the pace dropped a bit and everyone still in the group massively benefited from the slipstream while everyone caught behind at that point lost out massively due to riding the rest of the climb in the wind. I don't thing people like Gall finishing 2 minutes behind the rest is a good representation for how strong he was compared to Roglic.

Similarly I don't think Pogacar was way better than Vingegaard today, the descent just massively amplified the gap. Their performance gap on Marie Blanque last year was definitely bigger.

I think if it was a MTF Pogacar puts 25s into Vingo. He put about 9s into him in 800m, I think he'd have gone 3km from the finish otherwise.

 

[BigCoward]

You have to admire the confidence of Ayuso, just not giving a *** about how awkward the dinner table will be for the rest of the tour.

 

[Squire]

I think many time gaps today are super misleading. There was a section on Galibier where Almeida pushed super hard and brought it down pretty much to the same riders that were still there with 1km to go. Then the pace dropped a bit and everyone still in the group massively benefited from the slipstream while everyone caught behind at that point lost out massively due to riding the rest of the climb in the wind. I don't thing people like Gall finishing 2 minutes behind the rest is a good representation for how strong he was compared to Roglic.

Similarly I don't think Pogacar was way better than Vingegaard today, the descent just massively amplified the gap. Their performance gap on Marie Blanque last year was definitely bigger.

Very much this. As always with big descent finishes.

There will definitely be a lot more fluidity in terms of who's the top 8 strongest riders in the mountain stages to come.

 

[Devil's Elbow]

Ullrich on German Eurosport saying that Ayuso's behavior might lead to problems down the line, less so for challenging Pogacar but rather that Almeida and Yates will at some point ask - "why do we go full in, and this guy gets rewarded for setting a fake pace at front".

Valid point.

Yates has no right to complain if he remains clearly the weakest of the four, though.

 

[Penninepeddler]

Pogi will kill jonas at TT

They have contested 5 ITTs over their careers that are over 20km... on all kinds of terrain.

Jonas has won 4/5.

Now, is he in top form? No. But I dont think it is a foregone conclusion, and with 2 pretty relaxed days before then?

I would still give Jonas the edge unless he really is hurting already.

 

[Escarabajo]

What has happened to Simon Yates?

He was always the slightly better brother until they went their seperate ways.

Though last year looked to be back in some level of form.

And this year just seems another BIG step down, pretty consistently from the start of the season.

He has been absent all year for whatever reasons. So not sure why you are surprised about his performance.

 

[Brullnux]

Very much this. As always with big descent finishes.

There will definitely be a lot more fluidity in terms of who's the top 8 strongest riders in the mountain stages to come.

The time gaps are what makes them so good, really.

 

[DJO]

Given the TT on stage 7 would expect Vingegaard to get a fair amount of those seconds back...

then stage 9 might get interesting with Visma being more suited to it.

And guess Pogi might get some seconds on stage 11.

But the big questions now are:

Can Vingegaard be back up near his usual level in 11 days time for stage 14?
Are Visma able to actually help him? Because that was pathetic really.

Jorgenson looked like a Ardennes classic rider and not a GC helper when the going got tough. Certainly not Kuss right now is he?

Stage 9, the gravel stage. After what we saw Pogacar do at Strade, I'd suggest Visma might be a bit more concerned.

 

[Penninepeddler]

He has been absent all year for whatever reasons. So not sure why you are surprised about his performance.

I am talking about the year overall (and tbh before that)! Hence the clarification below.

 

[ppanther92]

Yates has no right to complain if he remains clearly the weakest of the four, though.

True but he was also the first of the 4 to hit the front and might have not went full speed after getting dropped.

 

[Salvarani]

Pogi will kill jonas at TT

Judging by the last part of the descent... maybe not kill, but Pog is likely to gain more time on Jonas in the first TT. At least that is my guess based on today.

However, judging by Remcos pace on the flat... Remco will likely gain time on Pog.

We will see.

 

[Keldergoat]

Beating the climbing record with two minutes with extremely strong headwinds. I want to believe in the sincerity of this sport but boy, they are making it hard sometimes.

 

[scribers]

What has happened to Simon Yates?

He was always the slightly better brother until they went their seperate ways.

Though last year looked to be back in some level of form.

And this year just seems another BIG step down, pretty consistently from the start of the season.

Could be targeting late season with vuelta, worlds, and Lombardia

 

[skidmark]

JV definitely needs more help - if Kuss was there to help on the descent today he would have limited his losses to 90 seconds.

 

[Poursuivant]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1808159364911394955

View: https://x.com/NairoInGreen/status/1808159364911394955