Tour of the Alps 2023 (April 17-21)

[Skijumper Roglic fan]

Well at least they haven't given him the bonus seconds as well.

Yeah, imagine they would have given him +00secs and the 10secs bonus for a potential victory… lol

 

[Skijumper Roglic fan]

Sadly Calum Johnston, Brit/Scot(?) from Caja Rural, doesn‘t have good legs here. First race of the season, maybe he was ill or so?

He seems to be a good and likeable guy, and a Scot on Caja Rural is something special in itself… So I always cheer for him (disappointedly mostly, because he‘s 100% a climber, but cannot keep the pace of most other WT or even PCT climbers. Maybe also clinic issue. Hope they‘ll keep him on Caja…).

 

[Tricycle Rider]

They often finish in lateral valleys where there are no other roads connecting them to the main valley, so they finish early to prevent complications for all the people who are coming back home from work later.

I'm watching a replay right now, it's such a beautiful part of the world. The scenery, the small alpine village architecture, and of course the castles! Must be a lovely place for a bike ride. (Not saying the race itself is exciting, but at least the scenery is nice to look at.)

 

[staubsauger]

I'm watching a replay right now, it's such a beautiful part of the world. The scenery, the small alpine village architecture, and of course the castles! Must be a lovely place for a bike ride. (Not saying the race itself is exciting, but at least the scenery is nice to look at.)

South Tyrol & the Dolomites truly are like the Caribbean for mountain lovers!

 

[KZD]

Nice to see Hart steping up and giving Ineos some wins. Right now, he and Sivakov seem to be their strongest options for the Giro though Thomas will probably still improve.

 

[Tricycle Rider]

South Tyrol & the Dolomites truly are like the Caribbean for mountain lovers!

I visited and skied in northern Italy (specifically Gsies) a few times a long time ago, have nothing but fond memories.

 

[Faserr]

I'm watching a replay right now, it's such a beautiful part of the world. The scenery, the small alpine village architecture, and of course the castles! Must be a lovely place for a bike ride. (Not saying the race itself is exciting, but at least the scenery is nice to look at.)

Its really nice there. If you ride a bit to the east (basically on the other side) from todays finish you are in the middle of the dolomites. An awesome place to hike or riding your bike (Sella Ronda, Tre Crime).

 

[staubsauger]

Its really nice there. If you ride a bit to the east (basically on the other side) from todays finish you are in the middle of the dolomites. An awesome place to hike or riding your bike (Sella Ronda, Tre Crime).

Langkofel / Sassolungo, Rosengarten Gruppe, Marmolada, etc. So many pittoresque places.

French movie the bear was actually shot at the Langkofel / Sassolungo.

 

[Mayomaniac]

One of the best things are the 2 Sella Ronda bike days on the 10th of June and the 16th of September. All the passes of the Sella Ronda are closed for Cars and Motobikes, so you can climb them on your bike without the traffic being a problem (it is a problem on the Sella Ronda and frankly we should do something about it).

 

[Mayomaniac]

Langkofel / Sassolungo, Rosengarten Gruppe, Marmolada, etc. So many pittoresque places.

French movie the bear was actually shot at the Langkofel / Sassolungo.

One of the greatest Italo-Western of all time, Il Grande Silenzio with Kaus Kinski, was also filmed in the Dolomites.
In recent years movies and TV series, usually financially supported by our Region as PR, filmed here have actually become a problem and contributed to the problem that overtourism has become in the touristic hotspots. Not everything is great, that has to be said.

 

[Ricco']

Abner Gozalez finished dead last, Mühlberger 5:33 down (hasn't been the same rider since getting Meningitis) and Fabbro over 9min down. I know, the later might be sick like half the Bora team, but what happened to the version of Fabbro that we saw in 2020 and in early 2021? I never expected him to become a gc rider in gts because of how inconsistent he has been in stage races since the u23 ranks, but he's a shadow of his former self.

Abner Gonzalez seems to be still feeling the effects of radiation poisoning after being too close to the ultraglowers in Grandíssima 2021. Never showed that kind of form again.

 

[Bolder]

Langkofel / Sassolungo, Rosengarten Gruppe, Marmolada, etc. So many pittoresque places.

French movie the bear was actually shot at the Langkofel / Sassolungo.

One of my cycling bucket list items is cycling in the Dolomites in September. We have skied every year in Val Gardena since 2016 and every time I'm stunned by the landscape. My only regret is not going there 30 years ago.

Edit to add, I think in the long term skiing is environmentally unsustainable in the Dolomites. I read an interesting history book about the Ladin farming communities, and one could see why a skiing and tourism economy was attractive. They were really poor and living on the edge every year. The pendulum may be swinging too far the other way, though...

 

[staubsauger]

One of the best things are the 2 Sella Ronda bike days on the 10th of June and the 16th of September. All the passes of the Sella Ronda are closed for Cars and Motobikes, so you can climb them on your bike without the traffic being a problem (it is a problem on the Sella Ronda and frankly we should do something about it).

There was a reportage on arte about the traffic overload caused by the mass tourism in the Dolomites & South Tyrol. The cause due to movies being shot there was mentioned as well.

Re: Dolomiten in Gefahr? - Südtirol kämpft mit dem Massentourismus - Die ganze Doku | ARTE

Tourist:innen überschwemmen das Weltnaturerbe Dolomiten und belasten die Region für die Einheimischen so sehr, dass die Diskussion um eine Begrenzung entfacht ist. Auf rund 500.000 Einwohner:innen, zumeist in kleinen Dörfern, kommen 33 Millionen Übernachtungen im Jahr – aber auch unzählige...

www.arte.tv

Should be available in French with English subtitles as well.

It must be really bad. Especially since real estate prices have ballooned as well.Konplatz looks like a kermis square sometimes.

It seems that long-term the region might only be affordable for luxury tourists like Saint Moritz & Saint Tropez or is that just doom-mongering?

 

[Mayomaniac]

There was a reportage on arte about the traffic overload caused by the mass tourism in the Dolomites & South Tyrol. The cause due to movies being shot there was mentioned as well.

Re: Dolomiten in Gefahr? - Südtirol kämpft mit dem Massentourismus - Die ganze Doku | ARTE

Tourist:innen überschwemmen das Weltnaturerbe Dolomiten und belasten die Region für die Einheimischen so sehr, dass die Diskussion um eine Begrenzung entfacht ist. Auf rund 500.000 Einwohner:innen, zumeist in kleinen Dörfern, kommen 33 Millionen Übernachtungen im Jahr – aber auch unzählige...

www.arte.tv

It must be really bad. Especially since real estate prices have ballooned as well.rKonplatz looks like a kermis square sometimes.

It seems that long-term the region might only be affordable for luxury tourists like Saint Moritz & Saint Tropez or is that just doom-mongering?

Nah, you're not just doom-mongering, it's a legit concern. The absurd thing is that Südtirol is still pumping millions into tourism marketing every year, despite the obvious problems. The road to Pragser Wildsee is now closed for cars and tourist busses during the day and only accesible via the shuttle busses to limit the traffic in the valley.

The real estate prices are a big problem for people who don't inherit land or are rich, mainly because worker's salaries are also clearly lower than in Austria and Germany (while costs of living around here are high).

 

[Mayomaniac]

That said, there are some mesures in place to keep real estate prices under control. Newly build houses with appartments have a quota that 75 or 80% of the appartments (konventionierte Wohnungen) have to be sold to people who have been living in the area for a few years. They are usually also cheaper than the market price. It's not flawless, for example one can buy and restructure a really old house and it won't count as newly built, but there are measures in place to prevent prices from getting even crazier and all appartments only being sold to tourists who stay there only for a month during the Summer and one during the winter. This was mainly done to prevent a situation like the one that we have in Cortina.

Sorry for my short rambling, I just wanted to make the situation a bit clearer. It's not all great, but it's also not all doom and gloom.

 

[wheresmybrakes]

You can tell Remco and Pog are not riding this race. Folk are talking about the great scenery, skiing and tourism. Like a breath of lovely mountainous fresh air.

 

[Tricycle Rider]

You can tell Remco and Pog are not riding this race. Folk are talking about the great scenery, skiing and tourism. Like a breath of lovely mountainous fresh air.

Sorry about that, I'm sure we'll all get our Pog/Pidcock/whoever freak on tomorrow in the Fleche thread.

 

[Tricycle Rider]

One of my cycling bucket list items is cycling in the Dolomites in September. We have skied every year in Val Gardena since 2016 and every time I'm stunned by the landscape. My only regret is not going there 30 years ago.

Edit to add, I think in the long term skiing is environmentally unsustainable in the Dolomites. I read an interesting history book about the Ladin farming communities, and one could see why a skiing and tourism economy was attractive. They were really poor and living on the edge every year. The pendulum may be swinging too far the other way, though...

It may also depend on the type of skiing - XC skiing usually doesn't require as much (if a trail isn't groomed/doesn't exist you just have to make your own), but once you get the downhillers and snowboarders you need the ski lifts and the ramps and whatnot... I definitely differentiate between those disciplines anyway.

Hopefully, whoever uses the mountains, is respectful enough to not leave their trash and noise around. And this, of course, includes cyclists as well.

 

[Rob5091]

Deja vu all over again for stage 2 - apart from dodgy finish.

 

[stetre76]

A pity for Gall yesterday, but I think it was his own fault - just a bit too eager to go for the stage win (but understandable, as it's close to home)

Was surprised that he was given the same time as Tao, but to be honest I think it won't really make a difference - would be surprised if he can be in the top group today, as his elbow looked not too good (needed some stitches) and his knee should have been stitched as well, but Gall said in Austrian TV that there was simply no skin left to actually stitch it up...

 

[Bolder]

It may also depend on the type of skiing - XC skiing usually doesn't require as much (if a trail isn't groomed/doesn't exist you just have to make your own), but once you get the downhillers and snowboarders you need the ski lifts and the ramps and whatnot... I definitely differentiate between those disciplines anyway.

Hopefully, whoever uses the mountains, is respectful enough to not leave their trash and noise around. And this, of course, includes cyclists as well.

I meant ski alpin. Almost every Dolomites ski station relies on snowmaking to operate and that takes a lot of energy to operate.

 

[Mayomaniac]

I meant ski alpin. Almost every Dolomites ski station relies on snowmaking to operate and that takes a lot of energy to operate.

Südtirol produces way more hydroelectric power than it needs, so the energy needed isn't the problem, unless costs skyrocket. The amount of water needed could be more problematic if we get less overall precipitations, but hotels with their swimming pools and spas are also a big culprid in that regard. Neary all the ski stations have big storage basins to stockpile water for the winter, so they are actually not the biggest problem in that regard. Still, with very few exceptions there's no need for them to expand further and built new skiing slopes and ski stations can be ruthless mobsters when push comes to shove.

Südtirol also relies as much, so regions even more, on summer tourism, so the winter isn't the end all be all. It's not nearly as bad as stuff like Kühtai, Sölden or Ischgl in Austria, they make the biggest skiing stations in Südtirol look rather tame.

 

[staubsauger]

Is today's finish simply the hard section of Monte Baldo from Avio until 8 kilometres from the top?

https://www.cyclingcols.com/col/Baldo

Or do they take a different turn from the place it says San Valentino on the profile?

Or is it the east side Bocca del Creer climb until San Valentino?

https://www.cyclingcols.com/col/Creer

 

[search]

Is today's finish simply the hard section of Monte Baldo from Avio until 8 kilometres from the top?

https://www.cyclingcols.com/col/Baldo

Or do they take a different turn from the place it says San Valentino on the profile?

Or is it the east side Bocca del Creer climb until San Valentino?

https://www.cyclingcols.com/col/Creer

that's the same climb, isn't it? You just turn left for Baldo and right for Bocca del Creer at some point

 

[staubsauger]

that's the same climb, isn't it? You just turn left for Baldo and right for Bocca del Creer at some point

Aaaah, that was in fact confusing me!

I knew Monte Baldo was a massive rather than just one peak.

So San Valentino is just a valley along the way on one of those two options?