Tyler's Book

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D-Queued

D-Queued

May 27, 2010
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thirteen said:
ffs, if it's too "delicate" for a public forum, would somebody please PM me and the big ring and enlighten us?
Click to expand...

Haven't had time to find the right link/quote.

Not likely that it would have caused pregnancy, though. In fact, quite the opposite. 'Hormone replacement' causes the testes to shrink which means you are likely to be shooting blanks.

If your partner comes into contact with your topical application (gel, cream, patch... massage oil...) or accidentally ingests it (e.g. Ferrari's magic olive oil), then they may develop 'side effects' consistent with both expected and undesirable effects.

From Livestrong (love citing this source):

Females taking AndroGel will experience suppression of ovulation, menstruation, or lactation. AndroGel use may cause a woman's voice to deepen or become hoarse, and this effect is often irreversible. Other male characteristics include oily skin, excessive hair growth in unusual places, clitoral enlargement, regression of breasts and male-pattern baldness. Female patients using AndroGel may also experience flushing, sweating, vaginal dryness, itching or bleeding.

Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/70768-side-effects-drug-androgel/#ixzz271WXzkdL

Dave.
 
thirteen

thirteen

Feb 25, 2011
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thank you, Dave... i'm still a bit clueless (and i don't click on Livestrong links out of principle).

nice to know the wives/girlfriends stay silent* whilst the men blabber about intimate details :rolleyes:


* i'm referring to someone's earlier sexist post, not your own
 
airstream

airstream

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Mar 29, 2011
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The question I wondered reading the book was whether Lance really was the strongest athlete of that era, if one tries to ignore the factor of doping and bribes. Anyways, imo, he was, but obviously not strong enough to win as many as 7 times. What do you think?
 
P

Page Mill Masochist

Aug 2, 2010
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airstream said:
The question I wondered reading the book was whether Lance really was the strongest athlete of that era, if one tries to ignore the factor of doping and bribes. Anyways, imo, he was, but obviously not strong enough to win as many as 7 times. What do you think?
Click to expand...

No. Just one data point. Armstrong's highest tested VO2 max was 84. His 2001 and 2004 Alpe d'Huez climb times implied a VO2 max of 95.

Which means Armstrong got a 12-13% boost from his doping. That's on the outside range of the 2% to 15% performance boost that oxygen vector drugs are known to provide.

Armstrong and Bruyneel deserve an A+ as strategy planners, the strategy being to cheat the system with the best doctor (Ferrari), the best drug planning, the best drug logistics. If you admire Professor Moriarty in the Sherlock Holmes stories, then you have to admire Armstrong/Bruyneel.

Best prepared rider? Yes. Best rider minus drugs and UCI protection? Not by a long shot.

The level playing field is a myth, as Daniel Coyle concluded.
 
Mrs John Murphy

Mrs John Murphy

May 3, 2010
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Susan Westemeyer said:
Enough of this now.....if that is in the book, I haven't found it.

Susan
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The point is that it ISN'T in the book. :rolleyes:

Here is the quote for you again and the link:

People are curious about unprintable TH story re ONE teammate. It concerns Andriol and reaction of someone close to taker. Figure it out!
Click to expand...

https://twitter.com/DavidWalshST/status/248779162922393600

David Walsh put it out there so it is logical that people would discuss it and the potential impact on the takers partner.
 
D-Queued

D-Queued

May 27, 2010
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Page Mill Masochist said:
...

The level playing field is a myth, as Daniel Coyle concluded.
Click to expand...

This had me recall another discussion within Tyler's book; the team myth.

Tyler didn't describe it in that light, but that is what I got out of it. The Postal situation sounded a lot less like a team than a slave galley - where teammates were closer to chained slaves. Thus, the notion of a team, with Lance standing on everyone's shoulders, sounded like more of a cult than a team.

Here is an extract from Chapter 5:

"Chapter 5

BAD NEWS BEARS

IT MAY NOT LOOK like it, but bike racing is the quintessential team sport. The leader stands on the shoulders of his teammates…

…All for one, one for all…

…Then we had another type of teammate: the invisible kind. The person nobody talks about, but who is perhaps more important in the long run. That’s where Motoman and Dr. Michele Ferrari come in…

…I came to think about it as Lance’s Golden Rule: Whatever you do, those other f****** are doing more…

…That was when the Tour became a different kind of sport; one that was all about controlling the story, which meant controlling the journalists… When the trolls kept harping on the cortisone story, Lance did what he did best: he decided to take them on directly. He started by calling Le Monde “the gutter press,” and “vulture journalism.”

…The other game, however, had to do not with EPO, but with Lance – namely, how to get along with him. He’s a touchy guy, and as the 2000 Tour grew closer, he got touchier. Buy June, the ragtag charm of the Bad News Bears seemed a million years old. Now he was tenser, more distant. He related to us less like a teammate than a CEO: hit your numbers, or else. Small things would set him off, and you knew it had happened when you got The Look – the long, unblinking three-second stare. ..."

Dave.
 
K

KayLow

Jul 30, 2012
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D-Queued said:
This had me recall another discussion within Tyler's book; the team myth.

Tyler didn't describe it in that light, but that is what I got out of it. The Postal situation sounded a lot less like a team than a slave galley - where teammates were closer to chained slaves. Thus, the notion of a team, with Lance standing on everyone's shoulders, sounded like more of a cult than a team.


Dave.
Click to expand...

My take on it is that Lance believed that every single person on Postal owed their careers to him, whereas everything he accomplished was on his own. Thus, when anyone made Lance unhappy for any reason whatsoever, that person, whether it was a rider or staff, was gone. At the same time, Lance felt no need to support the desire of his teammates to be paid fairly. When Postal would cheap out on a teammate by offering him below-market wages, Lance, who was making umpteen millions, would treat any discontent as a sign of unforgivable disloyalty to him. As a member of Postal, your job was support and put up with Lance's crap no matter what. Lance was the ultimate non-team player. He pretended he was the boss of everyone, demanded unfailing loyalty and was himself completely disloyal.
 
luckyboy

luckyboy

May 26, 2009
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Walsh + Tyler :)
2u7c7lv.jpg
 
Benotti69

Benotti69

May 26, 2010
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thirteen said:
thank you for doing what i was too lazy to do...

still curious, too.
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ONE = Armstrong?

closer to taker = Armstrong's partner = Sheryl Crow?

Side effects of Andriol = Cancer?
 
Benotti69

Benotti69

May 26, 2010
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airstream said:
The question I wondered reading the book was whether Lance really was the strongest athlete of that era, if one tries to ignore the factor of doping and bribes. Anyways, imo, he was, but obviously not strong enough to win as many as 7 times. What do you think?
Click to expand...

If you ignore the factor of doping. No he wasn't.

He would have been a good one day racer. Not a GT contender, never!
 
jilbiker

jilbiker

Jul 10, 2009
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Benotti69 said:
If you ignore the factor of doping. No he wasn't.

He would have been a good one day racer. Not a GT contender, never!
Click to expand...

But Tyler was beating him based on the Doctor's tests. Did we have a case of Froome/Wiggins? The better leading the lesser?
 
Benotti69

Benotti69

May 26, 2010
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jilbiker said:
But Tyler was beating him based on the Doctor's tests. Did we have a case of Froome/Wiggins? The better leading the lesser?
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Van deVelde was beating Armstrong and they couldn't tell Armstrong for fear he might get upset. Proabably others were too.

If you look where Armstrong came from, doping in triathlons to doping with Carmichael then to Motorola etc he won some big races and the rainbow jersey. He had talent and a pig headedness that would do well for one day but he was not a huge talent. Not GT wins, neither was Hamilton a GT podium contender.
 
airstream

airstream

BANNED
Mar 29, 2011
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Benotti69 said:
If you ignore the factor of doping. No he wasn't.

He would have been a good one day racer. Not a GT contender, never!
Click to expand...

good point. though imo we should reckon that second guys (basso, beloki,... ) obviously were very 'talented' in terms of sensibility and ability of organism to improve results because of doping as well.Very likely, it's a key factor all elite GT riders have and maybe even it's not much less important than talent. Or ability to percieve effect from doping is talent itself. :p


i felt sorry for tyler, reading the book. part of his failures were unfortunate set of circumstances. say, what the hell this stupid phonak decided to fire at the dauphine '04 after overly successful tour of romandy and liege??! they should've passed it patiently and come to the tour head-on with bb's.oh...

listen up, guys, explain to me 1 thing pls, when tyler knew from floyd that lance had called uci on him, he really said to lance "shut the **** up lance we are going ****ing kill you!" or only said to himself? i didn't get this moment while listening to the book.
 
O

Oldman

Jun 19, 2009
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airstream said:
good point. though imo we should reckon that second guys (basso, beloki,... ) obviously were very 'talented' in terms of sensibility and ability of organism to improve results because of doping as well.Very likely, it's a key factor all elite GT riders have and maybe even it's not much less important than talent. Or ability to percieve effect from doping is talent itself. :p
Click to expand...

The fact was Lance had teammates over his Motorola history that beat him....while they were clean. His response was typically aggressive: find out what they were taking. When it was discovered that they were not on the gear they would soon be forced to participate in the team's program or be gone. The mutual guilt tied them together and this was a lesson refined by the USPS management. For those skeptics you now know: the Mutual Assured Destruction threat was how information was suppressed for so long.
Very few teams had anything like this occurring on an organized basis and Lance had a few performers to thank: JB, TW, JO, Ferrari and some dealers.
 
G

Gregga

Apr 21, 2012
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airstream said:
listen up, guys, explain to me 1 thing pls, when tyler knew from floyd that lance had called uci on him, he really said to lance "shut the **** up lance we are going ****ing kill you!" or only said to himself? i didn't get this moment while listening to the book.
Click to expand...

In the book TH is supposed to have told LA twice "shut the f*ck", once "piece of sh!t", then "worry about yourself because we're goigng to *** kill you"... and in the end "f*** you Lance".

As if by chance, TH crashed a few hours later
 
thehog

thehog

BANNED
Jul 27, 2009
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Gregga said:
In the book TH is supposed to have told LA twice "shut the f*ck", once "piece of sh!t", then "worry about yourself because we're goigng to *** kill you"... and in the end "f*** you Lance".

As if by chance, TH crashed a few hours later
Click to expand...

Coyle has released some of his tapes when he interviewed Lance for the book WAR.

Makes very interesting listen and along the same vain as above:

http://soundcloud.com/djcoyle
 
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