Tyson Gay tests positive

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martinvickers

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Oct 15, 2012
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buckle said:
He used to boast of his junk food diet which I guess made him more normal than most. Coe was the dodgy one in my view.

Perhaps both men could contribute a 100 grand each to the IOC in the fight against drugs.:D
Coe was a VERY VERY early adopter of sports science - his father was a nutter for 'out-teching' the opposition. He was doing heart and 02 tests from an early age when most of his peers still simply ran in circles for hours. Whether he doped as well, I've know idea - but his record for 800 stood for decades.
 
armchair climber, I am sorry but I must be listening to a different Cram to the one you hear. Too often it is a Liggetesq drone. Yes, exactly as the hitch called it, he shouted his head off about 1 athlete but too often it is just more of the sycophantic, unrestrained fan boy, cheering that the BBC sports department currently specialise in. The BBC's failure to offer anything other than walloping loads of cream to stuff into any cracks and inability to support any decent investigative journalism into PEDs, harms their reputation. I am a big fan of the BBC but their sports journalism has gone down the tubes in the last 15 years. Case in point the day the Armstrong USADA story broke last August. Cringe worthy. The only decent guy they had on all day was Graham Obree and they could not get him off line fast enough. The guy interviewing him seemed to think he was some club cyclist who was just ringing in.
 
Mar 19, 2009
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slowspoke said:
Thanks. It's funny how women haven't even got close to the old records. I cant find the graphic but it was something like 4% off. Incredible.
My country is looking at a women's 100m national record from '86 and 800m from the '92 Barcelona games. Both legendary times and runners. Above all suspicion.

100m though was set under guidance of the local version of Victor Conte, but without the kind informative attitude.
800m set under guidance of a couch who was more guru than trainer. Runner whisperer. Didn't time training laps. Everything by feel and intensity indication.
He wants to be national coach again, after a 20 year or so absense from the sport.

The 100m NR is about to be broken by a heptathlete who just won the -23 100m Euro's.
At the 800m NR...everyone is 5+ seconds off the pace right now...
 
Mar 26, 2009
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Cyivel said:
Good to see all these cheats getting caught, hopefully Gatlin can get a gold or silver in Moscow now.
Gatlin? 4 year doping suspension Gatlin? Guy runs just as fast after suspension as he did before it, even though he is now a 30+ year old sprinter?
 
Mar 26, 2009
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FoxxyBrown1111 said:
Calvin Smith? I know, somebody will come up with something against him now... :eek:

Anyway, he never was seen with braces, wasn´t smelling wealth (back in his time prize money was low, if any was given...). Couldn´t afford to "invest" into expensive drugs... So he might be the choosen one.
Not a bad choice, but my pick for best clean sprinter of all time is Donovan Bailey. He peaked during a period when Canadian athletes were at their cleanest, since Ben Johnson was still fresh on everyone's mind and scrutiny was still very high. Bailey was also one of the few (only?) sprinters who was already wealthy and successful in another career BEFORE he was an elite sprinter.

Best sprinter of all time is also a Canadian, but as dirty as they come: Ben Johnson. His 9.79, back in the 80s, while celebrating with his hand in the air long before the finish line, might be the greatest sprint of all time.
 
silverrocket said:
Not a bad choice, but my pick for best clean sprinter of all time is Donovan Bailey. He peaked during a period when Canadian athletes were at their cleanest, since Ben Johnson was still fresh on everyone's mind and scrutiny was still very high. Bailey was also one of the few (only?) sprinters who was already wealthy and successful in another career BEFORE he was an elite sprinter.

Best sprinter of all time is also a Canadian, but as dirty as they come: Ben Johnson. His 9.79, back in the 80s, while celebrating with his hand in the air long before the finish line, might be the greatest sprint of all time.
Johnson's celebration (which I remember vividly, since I was awake on a school night to watch the 100m final in Seoul live, as a kid) makes me think of Bolt in Beijing, more than anything. How Bolt has managed to not trip the wire is a testament to the effectiveness of his program.

As for Bailey, I guess I am too cynical to think that he could have been clean. Just lucky, perhaps.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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All time 100m list:

Bolt - 9.58
Gay - doper
Blake - doper
Powell - doper
Carter - doper
Gatlin - doper
Greene - could be clean 9.79
Mullings - doper
Donovan Bailey - could be clean 9.84

Looks suspiciously like the top ten of the Tour during the Armstrong years.
 
Jun 15, 2009
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silverrocket said:
Not a bad choice, but my pick for best clean sprinter of all time is Donovan Bailey. He peaked during a period when Canadian athletes were at their cleanest, since Ben Johnson was still fresh on everyone's mind and scrutiny was still very high. Bailey was also one of the few (only?) sprinters who was already wealthy and successful in another career BEFORE he was an elite sprinter.

Best sprinter of all time is also a Canadian, but as dirty as they come: Ben Johnson. His 9.79, back in the 80s, while celebrating with his hand in the air long before the finish line, might be the greatest sprint of all time.
Bailey? No way, never ever. No matter if he came from another sport or not. He came out of nowhere to beat the best dopers in his time (Michael Johnson, who shattered the wind aided 200-m-WR in 1996 inclusive!) at an relative high age. Even the best athletes ever who change the sport late don´t make it in another one (see Michael Jordan big time failure in baseball for example).
Bailey was bulked up as the others (that evil came since Ben did it), i guess HGH, roids or more likely both of it... Sorry. :(

And Ben Johnson. Grrr... :mad:
What a farce. A chemical monster with yellow eyes. God this guy made me mad all the time he destroyed proven sprinters like Lewis and Smith or Glance from 1985 on. He came out of nowhere, was beaten badly before 1985....
He reminds me of the horse in "The Electric Horseman".
Caught twice (or triple?). A true pain in the ...

In the 90s +, maybe Kim Collins is/was clean. Long career. No absurd times. No crazy performance jumps. A relative normal look.
He might be the one (and only)...
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Aristarchus said:
Johnson's celebration (which I remember vividly, since I was awake on a school night to watch the 100m final in Seoul live, as a kid) makes me think of Bolt in Beijing, more than anything. How Bolt has managed to not trip the wire is a testament to the effectiveness of his program.

As for Bailey, I guess I am too cynical to think that he could have been clean. Just lucky, perhaps.
or that the tests still dont work and are IQ tests,

ok, so bomb went off in athletics, is there a test they did not know about?

the premise is wrong, WADA and IOC successfully inculcated the theory that drug testing =/= no drugs.

the premise must be IQ tests. Armstrong, Ullrich, Basso, the tests dont work. doping continues with impunity.

this goes back to 2006 and Puerto. no doubt something has changed. and something must be up on a political level, for this to detonate.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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FoxxyBrown1111 said:
Bailey? No way, never ever. No matter if he came from another sport or not. He came out of nowhere to beat the best dopers in his time (Michael Johnson, who shattered the wind aided 200-m-WR in 1996 inclusive!) at an relative high age. Even the best athletes ever who change the sport late don´t make it in another one (see Michael Jordan big time failure in baseball for example).
Bailey was bulked up as the others (that evil came since Ben did it), i guess HGH, roids or more likely both of it... Sorry. :(

And Ben Johnson. Grrr... :mad:
What a farce. A chemical monster with yellow eyes. God this guy made me mad all the time he destroyed proven sprinters like Lewis and Smith or Glance from 1985 on. He came out of nowhere, was beaten badly before 1985....
He reminds me of the horse in "The Electric Horseman".
Caught twice (or triple?). A true pain in the ...

In the 90s +, maybe Kim Collins is/was clean. Long career. No absurd times. No crazy performance jumps. A relative normal look.
He might be the one (and only)...
a stockbroker in a porsche? who ever trusts a stockbroker in a Porsche. the only surprise is he never had a ponytail.
 
martinvickers said:
Coe was a VERY VERY early adopter of sports science - his father was a nutter for 'out-teching' the opposition. He was doing heart and 02 tests from an early age when most of his peers still simply ran in circles for hours. Whether he doped as well, I've know idea - but his record for 800 stood for decades.
How do heart and O2 tests make you run faster? Doping is much more effective.
 
armchairclimber said:
Peter Coe literally wrote the book on Middle Distance training. There's plenty of Coe's training there to see on youtube. His regime was brutal.
So effective that only two men have run faster in more than 30 years.
 
martinvickers said:
GB middle distance 'greats' overlap and interfere with each other's career.

Cram was 1500m World Champ (first one i think, in 83) but never won olympic gold, rather like Colin Jackson. I believe he might have one olympic 1500 silver in 84, but i'm not sure.

Ovette won 800gold, 1500bronze in moscow, collapses in LA84

Coe won 800 silver, 1500 gold in both 80, and 84.

The last of the crew, and least remembered, was Peter Elliot, who suffered from, among other things, selection shenanigans.

Tom McKean came a little later, was capable. of one of fast times, but not in those guys league

They've produced nobody worth discussing since in the men's side.
Interestingly, McKean is the only one of those that figured at the sharp end of the 800m rankings as a schoolboy. Elliott was a very talented junior ... won a lot of cross country IIRC.
It's a source of frustration that we the UK hasn't produced any middle distance runners of note since then. That the even lost some of its appeal amongst kids may be part of it. The other problem? Training became slower.

Funnily enough, the most talented 800m runner I know won't run the event. Why? Because it hurts too much.

Anyway, it'll be interesting to see who else is busted in the next few days.
 
buckle said:
So effective that only two men have run faster in more than 30 years.
Yep. Don't get me wrong...it wasn't just the training.
Seb Coe was fantastically talented....well co-ordinated, perfect balance, light on his feet, great balance of fast and slow twitch muscle fibres...almost perfect. He was also about as determined an athlete as you could wish to meet.

He wasn't a particularly nice bloke.
 
Pulpstar said:
Roids work far better in female middle distance athletes than male ones (And I'd guess female athletes in general) because they push the user to a more 'male' body type (Higher muscle mass, lower body fat %))

For men it increases muscle mass but its just not going to be as effective as say EPO once you go past aerobic threshold events (800m). Ofc it still is a useful drug in the anaerobic events ( <400m)

Oh and you could always use it with EPO for max gains ! (See Lance ;) )
I read an article just today (in German) where a former East German coach is asked why female DDR swimmers are so successful and male swimmers aren't and answered: "we can turn women into men but we can't turn men into fishes."
 
Jun 15, 2010
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Briant_Gumble said:
If your a pro athlete you should be fine shopping at Tesco, Marks and Spencer, Waitrose, Sainsbury not some dodgy protein store.
But what if the cow is a horse and the sheep smells of pig?
 
Mar 13, 2009
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the sceptic said:
So who do you guys think is the best clean sprinter?
cav is best ever sprinter by a mile. debate over.

does not matter who dopes or not. cav is just on a plane all his own ai'it
 
Jun 25, 2013
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Asafa Powell is one from left field - came to Australia a year or so back and competed in our domestic athletics' scene for a couple of races; I did hold him in good esteem but now he can go and get ****ed - alongside Tyson Gay :mad:
 
If I were an athlete of Gay's calibre, regardless of whether I'm clean or not, I would certainly have all supplements tested and only buy from reputable mainstream brands. This "tainted supplement" excuse is bull**** easily 99 out of 100 times, and when it's not it's still the athlete's fault for being a moron.
 
Aug 29, 2012
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buckle said:
Wasn't there a WR in the 800 by a Kenyan? He was worse than Froome on Ventoux.
Hope it isn't David Rudisha, his 800 was one of my favourite moments of the games.

He is a very nice man from Kenya too !
 

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