UCI helped Froome with illegal(?) TUE at Romandie

[keeponrollin]

Wouldn't work as not all TUE's are 'one time' uses, some are for life.

Understood; but I think it's probably possible to spilt TUEs into Chronic & Acute, so that the chronic ones are available, but for the acute ones, which are only supposed to be issued because your health is at risk, riders would have to suck it up, & accept that they can't get free dope, just because they say they have a cold.

In theory, if you have a chronic illness like say, Asthma, your doctor, WADA etc will be aware of this. I think the occasional TUEs are the more exploitable if your a doper, you have your program, & need something to cover up the traces, so you get a TUE to cover up.

 

[thehog]

Understood; but I think it's probably possible to spilt TUEs into Chronic & Acute, so that the chronic ones are available, but for the acute ones, which are only supposed to be issued because your health is at risk, riders would have to suck it up, & accept that they can't get free dope, just because they say they have a cold.

In theory, if you have a chronic illness like say, Asthma, your doctor, WADA etc will be aware of this. I think the occasional TUEs are the more exploitable if your a doper, you have your program, & need something to cover up the traces, so you get a TUE to cover up.

Considering UKADs policy there's no wonder they put a call through to the UCI and fast tracked one for Froome.

As mentioned before Prednisolone and as stated below can be used all you want during training.

Perhaps Froome was glowing so much at LBL thus was pulled and they couldn't go the standard TUE route with UKAD so called in a favour with Cookson/UCI.

 

[Granville57]

Use of (nearly all oral) asthma medication can be checked with a urine test.

But that's my point. What if is not "asthma medication"?

I would like to think that checking the contents of any inhaler would be a slightly less roundabout way to discover unauthorized substances, than having to get a urine sample.

If I worked for anti-doping, I'm certain of which route I would prefer.

 

[_nm___]

is this document genuine?
if yes, then it contains a serious mistake:

S9
GLUCOCORTICOSTEROIDS
All glucocorticosteroids are prohibited when administered by oral, intravenous, intramuscular or rectal routes.

http://www.wada-ama.org/Documents/World_Anti-Doping_Program/WADP-Prohibited-list/2014/WADA-prohibited-list-2014-EN.pdf

 

[_nm___]

Considering UKADs policy there's no wonder they put a call through to the UCI and fast tracked one for Froome.

As mentioned before Prednisolone and as stated below can be used all you want during training.

Perhaps Froome was glowing so much at LBL thus was pulled and they couldn't go the standard TUE route with UKAD so called in a favour with Cookson/UCI.

no, no, all oral corticoids, including prednisolone, are prohibited in- and out-of-competition.
is this document genuine?

S9
GLUCOCORTICOSTEROIDS
All glucocorticosteroids are prohibited when administered by oral, intravenous, intramuscular or rectal routes.

http://www.wada-ama.org/Documents/World_Anti-Doping_Program/WADP-Prohibited-list/2014/WADA-prohibited-list-2014-EN.pdf

 

[thehog]

no, no, all oral corticoids, including prednisolone, are prohibited in- and out-of-competition.
is this document genuine?



http://www.wada-ama.org/Documents/World_Anti-Doping_Program/WADP-Prohibited-list/2014/WADA-prohibited-list-2014-EN.pdf

Yes the document is genuine. But your interpretation is incorrect.

(http://www.ukad.org.uk/resources/document-download/guidance-on-TUE-forms-asthma-and-prednisolone/)

If you have "acute" asthma then you can abuse Prednisolone in training all you like.

 

[Catwhoorg]

Specifically S9 is an in competition list.

 

[_nm___]

Yes the document is genuine. But your interpretation is incorrect.

(http://www.ukad.org.uk/resources/document-download/guidance-on-TUE-forms-asthma-and-prednisolone/)

If you have "acute" asthma then you can abuse Prednisolone in training all you like.

??? you're teaching me something very, very new

are you able to post the full url address of this ukad document you've got inserted as a link cos i can't open it

i absolutely need to read it

thx_

 

[_nm___]

Specifically S9 is an in competition list.

yes, it's just below canabinoids, effectively


my bad

 

[_nm___]

Yes the document is genuine. But your interpretation is incorrect.

(http://www.ukad.org.uk/resources/document-download/guidance-on-TUE-forms-asthma-and-prednisolone/)

If you have "acute" asthma then you can abuse Prednisolone in training all you like.

yes you're right indeed

 

[thehog]

yes you're right indeed

http://www.ukad.org.uk/resources/document/guidance-on-TUE-forms-asthma-and-prednisolone

Linked from here...

 

[msjett]

After reading lots of posts I came to the following conclusion - Basically the way I am reading all this information is that this is allowing rider(s) to legally dope. Because personally I can't get past if you are so sick that you need this type of drug, you should be home in bed, not training and sure as hell not racing. There is also the matter of conflict of interest and whether TUE protocols being followed to the letter, nothing but transparency from UCI and Sky huh?!!!

 

[thehog]

After reading lots of posts I came to the following conclusion - Basically the way I am reading all this information is that this is allowing rider(s) to legally dope. Because personally I can't get past if you are so sick that you need this type of drug, you should be home in bed, not training and sure as hell not racing. There is also the matter of conflict of interest and whether TUE protocols being followed to the letter, nothing but transparency from UCI and Sky huh?!!!

If you really are sick and can't ride, you generally don't ride because you can't.

I don think an anti-inflammatory steroid will get you out of bed and racing.

But if you're really not sick and have a legal means to use your training drug of choice well then you can beat Tony Martin in the ITT!

The cortisone rumour and Sky has been floating about for around 12-18 months. This incident confirms it for those who discussed it on PM and such.

 

[msjett]

If you really are sick and can't ride, you generally don't ride because you can't.

I don think an anti-inflammatory steroid will get you out of bed and racing.

But if you're really not sick and have a legal means to use your training drug of choice well then you can beat Tony Martin in the ITT!

The cortisone rumour and Sky has been floating about for around 12-18 months. This incident confirms it for those who discussed it on PM and such.

I was thinking it wouldn't..hence my conclusion...

I have a question you may be able to answer for me, cause I hadn't really thought about it before and really hadn't taken notice - do they publish the riders TUE's or does this only become public information when a journalist finds out or requests information?

 

[Beech Mtn]

Yes the document is genuine. But your interpretation is incorrect.

(http://www.ukad.org.uk/resources/document-download/guidance-on-TUE-forms-asthma-and-prednisolone/)

If you have "acute" asthma then you can abuse Prednisolone in training all you like.

And thus why so very many professional sportsmen and women have asthma diagnoses.

And yes, they're outdoors more, breathing everything, working the lungs more, etc. Certainly. But there's a hell of an advantage to getting that diagnosis from the team doctor all registered with your fed so you can have easier access to performance-enhancing substances, no?

 

[Dear Wiggo]

I was thinking it wouldn't..hence my conclusion...

I have a question you may be able to answer for me, cause I hadn't really thought about it before and really hadn't taken notice - do they publish the riders TUE's or does this only become public information when a journalist finds out or requests information?

They are entered into the ADAMs software system, but not published - unless someone lucks out and does so.

It's essentially medical information and comes under that privacy thing.

 

[thehog]

And thus why so very many professional sportsmen and women have asthma diagnoses.

And yes, they're outdoors more, breathing everything, working the lungs more, etc. Certainly. But there's a hell of an advantage to getting that diagnosis from the team doctor all registered with your fed so you can have easier access to performance-enhancing substances, no?

Correct.

Yes, I'm sure when Bobby Dulich told Froome that it was "time to get serious" that he told him to quickly develop childhood asthma and get his "TUEs" lined up.

BJ had a sky on speed dial so would have cleared the path.

But yes. All part of a cyclists diet. Low carb, protein and drugs (preferably administered by legal means).

But there's plenty of openings right there to dope with very little chance or being caught.... In fact zero chance of being caught;

Micro-dose EPO, Tenerife altitude up and down to confuse the passport, excessive cortisone use in training with the option of a TUE in a race via the asthma route and a blood bag if you feel lucky.

 

[Archibald]

But yes. All part of a cyclists diet. Low carb, protein and drugs (preferably administered by legal means).

pardon??
..

 

[msjett]

They are entered into the ADAMs software system, but not published - unless someone lucks out and does so.

It's essentially medical information and comes under that privacy thing.

Thanks DW for the explanation...

I have the opinion that if there is a high percentage of riders in any team that have a condition that requires a TUE especially when the condition is the same for all riders, I think the UCI and WADA have a duty of care, and a damn good reason to have some independent medical testing. We might see less Asthmatics in the peloton.

Also IMO if you need an emergency TUE the request should be from a Specialist in the area of medicine for that particular illness or from an ER Doctor, cause you are that sick you may just have taken yourself to hospital.

 

[Tinman]

Micro-dose EPO, Tenerife altitude up and down to confuse the passport, excessive cortisone use in training with the option of a TUE in a race via the asthma route and a blood bag if you feel lucky.

Why the cortisone/prednisone? Just faster recovery? Must be some benefits; reducing haematocrit? Reducing Endogenous EPO production?

Anyone for mechanisms?

 

[Tinman]

Why the cortisone/prednisone? Just faster recovery? ?

Which may well be the biggest of the marginal gains...

Faster recov means more time in the saddle, and presumably more power/weight etc.

 

[thehog]

Why the cortisone/prednisone? Just faster recovery? Must be some benefits; reducing haematocrit? Reducing Endogenous EPO production?

Anyone for mechanisms?

Yes to recovery.

The biggest enemy to a cyclist is inflammation. Not inflammation through injury but overuse and excessive amounts of training. The ability to get back on the bike the next day with next to nothing soreness and ride just as hard as the previous day is a huge advantage over a non-user. Your body is stiff and sore because it wants you to slow down so it can rebuild itself - hypertrophy etc.

I'm not a sport scientists but it's old school but super effective.

In an earlier link, Riis was using prednisone and experienced super weight loss and power. Bodybuilder forums talk about he ability to huge amounts and build massive strength.

The supposed side effects of cortisone are minimal but have seen and heard stories about later life water retention and atrophy in the injection point on the skin.

By no means an expert but any drug package comes with cortisone. An ice bath in a needle

 

[el_angliru]

Why the cortisone/prednisone? Just faster recovery? Must be some benefits; reducing haematocrit? Reducing Endogenous EPO production?

Anyone for mechanisms?

I know absolutely nothing about drugs, but here are a few things I've found the last couple of days while browsing some Danish sites on the subject of prendisolone and TUE's. Michael Rasmussen used cortisone, and also taught Ryder how to use it. It was apparently very common on the Rabobank team (Boogerd has admitted the use of cortisone too, among others).

A year ago, the Argos-Shimano manager and their team doctor were out in the press talking about cortisone, and about how widespread the use of cortisone was. One of the effects of cortisone, according to the Argos-Shimano doctor Edwin Achterberg, is that it gives the rider a sense of euphoria. It also provides more carbs and pushes the pain-threshold. (My translations into English are probably pretty bad. I'm sure it can be explained better).

A Danish Ph.D. says glucocorticoids (to which predisone/predisolone/cortisone belongs) will "enhance glycogen re-synthesis" (whatever that means), and therefore most likely improve restitution. He also mentions a study which shows less muscle-fatigue with a particular glucocorticoid. So glucocorticoids seems to have some performance enhancing effects.

 

[thehog]

pardon??
..

Froome does not eat pasta or bread.

Most cyclists have a restricted carb diet during training. How do you think they lose weight?

 

[42x16ss]

Froome does not eat pasta or bread.

Most cyclists have a restricted carb diet during training. How do you think they lose weight?

There's also the belief that you get a greater response when you finally do carb load leading in to a race. Not sure how effective it really is but it's still fairly common.