UCI helped Froome with illegal(?) TUE at Romandie

[SundayRider]

Sorry if im repeating anything as I only read the last 3 pages.

I'll clarify a few things on cortisone in laymans terms for those interested.
For a short background; I hold a bachelor of sports science, bachelor of health sciences, master of osteopathy, master of strength and conditioning and am just about to finish medicine.

Cortisone is essentially a stress hormone that makes you feel AWESOME. Though it has many cool functions.
You know that feeling you get when you're up late and you just cant stay awake but about 1am you get a big second wind and manage to stay awake and productive? Thats cortisol, the bodies natural version of cortisone.

Prednisolone is another artificial form of the hormone, just a lot stronger in its action.

Cortisol is like a fight/flight hormone that acts over the course of hours instead of seconds like adrenaline. It causes your body to mobilise fat stores and turn them in to blood sugar. Among with a few other metabolic factors it makes you have high blood sugar available to burn for exercise.

Cortisol also makes the immune system slow down, same with bone deposition, tissue repair etc. It pretty much moves all bodily functions towards handling exercise/stress.

I have used prednisolone a couple of times before. I get rather bad eczema from some obscure food allergies. Therefore I use prednisolone about twice a year for 3 days when a bad attack hits.
From my own experience I can say that you can suddenly go and pump out a 6 hour ride and still do PBs on my favourite climb by the end. Normally I would be 2mins slower or so.
When you wake up the next day, you are entirely capable of hopping on the bike and pumping out another 6 hour ride with a PB at the end. No sore legs at all.

The recovery effects of cortisone could be down to their anti-inflamm effects, but it also helps your muscles load up with fuel easily (glycogen resynthesis: normally you struggle to do this after hard training).

The down sides:
- it can make you a bit agro, not like anabolics, more like being stressed and angry
- it suppresses the immune system. So if you take it for too long your immune system cracks the ****s with you (i think this is one of the major reasons for so called "overtraining") and you can contract something like human parvovirus like Greg Strock did.
- it slows down wound healing
- it seriously messes up your bone density in the long run
- if you are truely sick, ie lung infection, it tends to make you feel pretty horrible generally.


Cortisone is not the whole story to Froome. Although it could help explain the stupidly skinny physique and his ability to loose all of his arm musculature (even compared to Rasmussen).
Its not the 1% bull**** either. His bike fit and general ergonomics are terrible.
The magic to Froome is that his cardiac output is utterly nuts. I mean twice what would be expected from a highly elite athlete. What causes that? No idea, but I would love to find out.

What figures do you have regarding his cardiac output?

 

[sniper]

...
Cortisone is not the whole story to Froome. Although it could help explain the stupidly skinny physique and his ability to loose all of his arm musculature (even compared to Rasmussen).
Its not the 1% bull**** either. His bike fit and general ergonomics are terrible.
The magic to Froome is that his cardiac output is utterly nuts. I mean twice what would be expected from a highly elite athlete. What causes that? No idea, but I would love to find out.

good post, thanks.
what's your take on vaughters' view that froome is clean and his strength is down to what vaughters labeled 'crazy adaptive physiology'?

would love it if it was really simple too.

ow but it is really simple. It's CRAP

Just hoping the SOL is not exceeded first bleh.

true story.

 

[Beech Mtn]

Yeah I was wondering the same thing, given the recent (?) study that showed antioxidants like Vit C are a no no post-exercise, as it's the oxidants that trigger that pathway adaptation. Very interesting developments.

So on the one hand you can train harder, but then your adaptation or potential improvement is muted due to curtailing the full extent of the adaptations available.

Cannot wait to find out the interventions these guys are on. I am of the opinion it's a leap forward, but would love it if it was really simple too.

Just hoping the SOL is not exceeded first bleh.

Don't worry. On January 1, 2015, the new WADA Code kicks in, and the SOL becomes 15 years instead of 8.

 

[zigmeister]

"The call leaves Sky with only six men in Liège, where the 100th edition of the race started in front of Belgium’s king. Richie Porte leads the team.
Sky also was unable to field a full team to support Bradley Wiggins this week at Italy’s Giro del Trentino. Ian Boswell supported Wiggins, but he also had to rush from the Amstel Gold Race and back north for today’s Liège-Bastogne-Liège. He was the only rider to ride the rare triple.

“The problem is that we’ve had all the illness and crashes this year, more than you’d expect. In the last couple of years, we’ve had proportionally less than you’d expect to have. It’s like we’ve saved them all for once!” Brailsford explained.

“We have Jonathan Tiernan-Locke who’s not racing, Sergio Henao and his cousin have gone back to Colombia. CJ Sutton has a nasty hole in his knee after his crash. Chris [Froome] who’s ill. Pete Kennaugh is ill. And we have three race rosters to fill.

“It’s not just about being able to field a team today, it’s Romandie next week and the Tour of California. If you start chopping and changing too much, you find yourself in a difficult spot.”

So with all these Team Sky scratchings at L-B-L and various other events, who attended the Tenerife training camp? And is Ritchie the only one not glowing? It would explain his lack of performance since...

This goes back to my post in Froome's book thread. After awhile, you see how Froome talks about other riders/teammates. What will happen eventually, the other "domestiques" are going to start to wonder WTF Froome really thinks about them and their behavior/performance.

Froome will throw anybody under the bus along with his psycho/loudmouth girlfriend, when he isn't the center of the universe.

Eventually, all his "teammates" are going to stop working for this guy, whether that is their job or not. They don't care, other teams would love to pickup Porte and other work-horses who are often near GC contenders themselves.

So they will just drop out of races, stop putting in efforts etc...Froome will be on his own. All of the sudden, Froome isn't so amazing and he will have done to him what he did to Wiggans...what goes around comes around!!

Froome is no Contador. He needs teammates. Contador needs no help, which leads to problems as we saw.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Don't worry. On January 1, 2015, the new WADA Code kicks in, and the SOL becomes 15 years instead of 8.

<3

Thank you, I was not aware.

 

[sniper]

Eventually, all his "teammates" are going to stop working for this guy, whether that is their job or not. They don't care, other teams would love to pickup Porte and other work-horses who are often near GC contenders themselves.

So they will just drop out of races, stop putting in efforts etc...Froome will be on his own. All of the sudden, Froome isn't so amazing and he will have done to him what he did to Wiggans...what goes around comes around!!

Froome is no Contador. He needs teammates. Contador needs no help, which leads to problems as we saw.

this i doubt.
if i were at sky with a 150.000+ contract to shield froome from the wind i wouldn't care too much about what he says about me in a hardly selling autobiography. i would continue to do my job.

 

[thehog]

this i doubt.
if i were at sky with a 150.000+ contract to shield froome from the wind i wouldn't care too much about what he says about me in a hardly selling autobiography. i would continue to do my job.

150?

Try 400-600e's per year with little to no tax implications.

Yep. These guys are saying nothing and don't care if its Wiggins or Froome.

 

[blackcat]

This goes back to my post in Froome's book thread. After awhile, you see how Froome talks about other riders/teammates. What will happen eventually, the other "domestiques" are going to start to wonder WTF Froome really thinks about them and their behavior/performance.

Froome will throw anybody under the bus along with his psycho/loudmouth girlfriend, when he isn't the center of the universe.

Eventually, all his "teammates" are going to stop working for this guy, whether that is their job or not. They don't care, other teams would love to pickup Porte and other work-horses who are often near GC contenders themselves.

So they will just drop out of races, stop putting in efforts etc...Froome will be on his own. All of the sudden, Froome isn't so amazing and he will have done to him what he did to Wiggans...what goes around comes around!!

Froome is no Contador. He needs teammates. Contador needs no help, which leads to problems as we saw.

actually i disagree.

unlike Cav, who may publically thank teammates and make out how crucial they are, and Cav is not that many steps away from Lance in terms of hubris.

I think Froome may be a very nice guy, whose teammates actually like him. Forget about Wiggins, that should not be relevant, and dont you forget, Froome was the strongest in 2012 and did not do a Bernaud Hinault on Wiggins. And then Wiggins wanted to defend his title last year and be the leader again, and said he was the better rider. no you werent brad, and you werent the better rider in 2012 neither.

but when their are millions of pounds at play, and egos, then there is gonna be rifts and enmety.

in one respect, you should see Froomes conduct with admiration, just like you respect Contador standing up to Lance in 2010 and 2011. Well, Froome dawg never rolled over for Wiggins to have his tummie tickled did he.

 

[veganrob]

this i doubt.
if i were at sky with a 150.000+ contract to shield froome from the wind i wouldn't care too much about what he says about me in a hardly selling autobiography. i would continue to do my job.

I think everybody wants to be recognized for doing a good job and sacrifice for the team. !50k is not a lot of money for the job they are asked to do. They are professional athletes and at the top of their sport. That being said, they are also human,would like some respect and have an ego. Some way bigger than others abviously.
Also, those teammates may be on the other team some day. Wouldn't take much of an elbow to put Froome on the tarmac. Doen't even have to be ex team mate. Saw what happened to AC few years ago in TdF. That was suspicious.

 

[Winterfold]

I'll clarify a few things on cortisone in laymans terms for those interested.
.

Very interesting thanks.

Where can I get it?

 

[red_flanders]

Having digested all of this, while I don't think Froome or Sky has cheated in anyway, according the rules as they stand.

However the rules are wrong. I think the issuing of TUEs partiocularly drugs of this nature should be reviewed. Clearly this drug doesn't just address the respiratory problems Froome had, it has a systemic affect, gives the rider greater energy and lessens the effects of fatigue. So it clears up the cough AND gives Froome a performance boost during the Tour of Romandie.

That doesn't sit well with me, whatever the rules are. The MPCC doesn't allow TUEs, which is good, and other instituations insits on a 14 day rest period before issuing a TUE, giving the disease a chance to be cleared before the rider competes. If he still needs one after that, then he can have one.

But corticosteroids shouldn't be issued under a TUE ever IMO. If you need steroids then you don't race until you have stopped taking them. There must be greater attention to the severity of the disease and the potency of the drug taken to avoid any abuse of the system, because this system looks ripe for abuse.

Get these drugs out of the sport, its bonkers this is still going on after everything that has happened.

Agreed, bot to the bolded, he claims to have had. No way anyone can know if it's true, and that kind of thing has been going on as an excuse for doping forever. Don't know why anyone would accept this explanation at face vale.

 

[DirtyWorks]

So with all these Team Sky scratchings at L-B-L and various other events, who attended the Tenerife training camp? And is Ritchie the only one not glowing? It would explain his lack of performance since...

Corroborating what may already be known:
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sp...the-giro-ditalia/story-fngr0c3m-1226895522401

Porte has just spent two weeks training on the Mount Tiede volcano in Tenerife with Froome.

Still looking for other riders in attendance.

 

[autologous]

Wiggins today :

“Friday’s time trial had been my main goal for the Tour de Suisse, but I’d never have been 100% for it. I’ve also been struggling with a chest infection this week, which affected my ride on stage one, and that put me back a bit so I wouldn’t have been able to perform at my best there anyway."

and yet Froome can take his TUE and spank Tony Martin

 

[Benotti69]

Wiggins today :

and yet Froome can take his TUE and spank Tony Martin

When it comes from riders or teams, nevermind Sky, take it with a pinch of salt.

 

[froooome]

Wiggins today :

and yet Froome can take his TUE and spank Tony Martin

Martin wasn't especially strong in Romandies TT, lost one second to froomie and beated Sergeant only by seven seconds.

 

[Cycle Chic]

Tennis and Asthma

From 2010 Tennis Has a Steroid Problem

I'm wondering whether a lot of these players are going into the bathroom and using an inhaler for which they have a "therapeutic use exemption." If a player is diagnosed with asthma, they can get a therapeutic use exemption for an asthma inhaler, which is essentially a fast delivery system for some speed.

It would appear from what is written here that it would be rather difficult to reach the 1,000 nanogram level through the use of an inhaler. Therefore, players can head to the bathroom and snuff as much of the stuff as they want. This is really unbelievable to me. If you doubt that this will give a player a boost, I suggest you give it a try sometime.

http://tennishasasteroidproblem.blogspot.co.uk/2010/03/bathroom-breaks.html

Venus Inhales

This is a screen shot from Venus' first AO match (at 3:2, first set) where she unsuccessfully tries to hide the use of her inhaler behind a towel. My source (Thanks Superbratwurst) tells me that she can be seen using the inhaler also at 1:2 and 6:3 of the first set. I can only assume that her claimed "condition" is asthma and that this is a Salbutamol inhaler. That is at least three instances of inhaler use in just the first set. Now, the standard dose of such inhalers is 2 puffs every 4 hours. Previously, players who had an exemption for this drug had to keep under a particular threshold level. I don't know whether that is still the case, but her rate of inhaler use would likely put her far over that limit by the end of the match even if she was only taking one puff at a time, and there is no reason to assume even that.

Update: Apparently there is an asthma epidemic in tennis

http://tennishasasteroidproblem.blogspot.co.uk/2011/01/venus-inhales.html

 

[Granville57]

I'll clarify a few things on cortisone in laymans terms for those interested.

Great post. Thanks as well.
I'd like to PM you a couple of questions, if you don't mind.

Very interesting thanks.

Where can I get it?

 

[JimmyFingers]

Agreed, bot to the bolded, he claims to have had. No way anyone can know if it's true, and that kind of thing has been going on as an excuse for doping forever. Don't know why anyone would accept this explanation at face vale.

Not denying that. Clearly it is a system that is easy to abuse, and at very short notice. Froome not firing on all-cylinders for a key stage race, get a TUE and he's away. I 100% that Froome's performance at Romandie wasn't natural, and you'd be hard-pressed to assert it is, given what he took. There is no way to quantify the drop in performance because of the infection against the boost in performance in the drug. So even if Froome is 100% on the level about the infection, it is a moot point anyway, because he got a performance advantage from using it, and that's the bottom line.

 

[red_flanders]

Not denying that. Clearly it is a system that is easy to abuse, and at very short notice. Froome not firing on all-cylinders for a key stage race, get a TUE and he's away. I 100% that Froome's performance at Romandie wasn't natural, and you'd be hard-pressed to assert it is, given what he took. There is no way to quantify the drop in performance because of the infection against the boost in performance in the drug. So even if Froome is 100% on the level about the infection, it is a moot point anyway, because he got a performance advantage from using it, and that's the bottom line.

OK, just thought it worth noting. I have no reason to think that's the only thing he had in his system. It's simply what we know about and what he got a TUE for. All experience would point to the notion that what we know about is simply the tip of the iceberg, as it always is.

 

[JimmyFingers]

Fair enough, but that is conjecture, I prefer to deal with hard facts. Froome legally got a performance enhancing drug during a UCI race. That isn't right, forever that performance should have an asterisk next to it.

I will say it is symptomatic of a sport that puts its riders under huge pressures, a sheer physical overload. I read comments of Wiggins withdrawal from TdS and you see we expect riders like him and Froome to perform and if they don't it is addressed with scorn and cynicism. So you're faced with that: Froome dropped out of LBL, and I saw comments here about Sky were disrespecting the race, then at Romandie he still has the same problem, but this time he takes a TUE and continues.

I'm not saying the criticism a rider gets for under-performing or dropping out is the reason some may dope, but it is symptomatic on the pressure put on riders by the teams, the media, the fans, the sponsors, the need for world tour points.

It's a brutal sport, but we must respect the riders need for medical treatment, and that means collectively trying not to back them into a corner to perform whatever their condition and not simply firing bile in their direction. If a rider is sick, then they shouldn't be racing, and we shouldn't be lining up to judge them for that, we should be praising them for it.

 

[Will Carter]

http://www.wada-ama.org/Documents/S...ort_TUECs/WADA_Medical_info_Asthma_4.0_EN.pdf

Looks like the masking agent theory is the best bet.....he's had a urine abnormallity and got the TUE to prove it was the salbutamol.

Small matter that the TUE is for Predisolone not Salbutamol. One is a steroid one is a beta agonist - cant see how one could trigger (or hide) a +ve for the other.

 

[sniper]

Fair enough, but that is conjecture, I prefer to deal with hard facts. Froome legally got a performance enhancing drug during a UCI race. That isn't right, forever that performance should have an asterisk next to it.

I will say it is symptomatic of a sport that puts its riders under huge pressures, a sheer physical overload. I read comments of Wiggins withdrawal from TdS and you see we expect riders like him and Froome to perform and if they don't it is addressed with scorn and cynicism. So you're faced with that: Froome dropped out of LBL, and I saw comments here about Sky were disrespecting the race, then at Romandie he still has the same problem, but this time he takes a TUE and continues.

I'm not saying the criticism a rider gets for under-performing or dropping out is the reason some may dope, but it is symptomatic on the pressure put on riders by the teams, the media, the fans, the sponsors, the need for world tour points.

It's a brutal sport, but we must respect the riders need for medical treatment, and that means collectively trying not to back them into a corner to perform whatever their condition and not simply firing bile in their direction. If a rider is sick, then they shouldn't be racing, and we shouldn't be lining up to judge them for that, we should be praising them for it.

good post. important points. in the end it all comes down to money.

 

[Will Carter]

No, I didn't make it up.

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news...me-misses-liege-bastogne-liege-illness-121122

Can you point me to the bit where it says he arrived and left on the saturday night.

He did sign on though from memory.

 

[sniper]

From 2010 Tennis Has a Steroid Problem



http://tennishasasteroidproblem.blogspot.co.uk/2010/03/bathroom-breaks.html

Venus Inhales

This is a screen shot from Venus' first AO match (at 3:2, first set) where she unsuccessfully tries to hide the use of her inhaler behind a towel. My source (Thanks Superbratwurst) tells me that she can be seen using the inhaler also at 1:2 and 6:3 of the first set. I can only assume that her claimed "condition" is asthma and that this is a Salbutamol inhaler. That is at least three instances of inhaler use in just the first set. Now, the standard dose of such inhalers is 2 puffs every 4 hours. Previously, players who had an exemption for this drug had to keep under a particular threshold level. I don't know whether that is still the case, but her rate of inhaler use would likely put her far over that limit by the end of the match even if she was only taking one puff at a time, and there is no reason to assume even that.

Update: Apparently there is an asthma epidemic in tennis

http://tennishasasteroidproblem.blogspot.co.uk/2011/01/venus-inhales.html

great find.
she's hardly trying to hide it, though, is she.
everything goes in tennis.

(Thanks Superbratwurst)

hilarious!

 

[Benotti69]

https://twitter.com/RiderOfTheMonth/status/479360726302482435/photo/1

this has Froome and Wiggins written all over it.