Ullrich confessed

[filipo]

I do not think they went clean but there is zero indication they did blood bags or were customers of Fuentes

I disagree. I think riding for two very specifically Fuentes-related teams is more than "zero" indication. But YMMV and anyway this is about Ullrich, sorry for the sidetrack.

 

[Scott SoCal]

nah, RR is only passing on the info from his sources, like early telekom training camps, being unable to hold the pace on climbs before they had him on EPO. and RR has always said his rouleur and chrono abilities would have manifested.

just not winning July

Kind of like a certain Spanish 5-time winner.

 

[Neworld]

Would have been cool if he said something like

Quote:
"I would like to thank Dr. Fuentes, Schmid, and Heinrich. Without their help I would not have been able to live such a easy retirement and take such great vacations to Colorado"

Tuesday

Sort of like 30-40 other riders from the same genre? I get it though, this is the Ullrich admission thread, so lets carve him up for something he never said, nothing new to report (sort of like CNN), and expect him to do what others do not, most of who are either still riding, coaching or in cycling peripherally. (Axel M, George H, Erik Z, Bobby J, ...endless list)

#gotit.

Hey, Jan doped. did he dope more than other TdF GT riders? Nope. Other than one comment from Aldag and heresay there are innumerable others that say he was very gifted. So when Jan says I didn't cheat my rivals (isocompetitors) I think that is a very weird parallel, but malevolently true. Some would argue that not being protected by the UCI, not having a team totally devoted to him (Zabel) and possibly keeping his HCT around 44 (KL SMS) is 'some' evidence that he was a real 'doped' GT competitor.

We'll never know how he would have faired over the course of an entire year in the pro-circuit in those hypothetical days against other 'clean' riders.

PS: Wasn't it JaJa that said a few years back "French riders don't want to win, or don't train hard enough (sic)" Ya, JaJa really compete like you did. You'd never hear Ullrich spew out that kind of vitriol. Sorry off topic.

What a waste.

 

[Race Radio]

Zzzzzzzzzz.


Race Radio propaganda brought to you by JV productions.

Appears others know more from Ulle than you do. You were over here with the scoop thats now not a scoop

Tuesday is your day, not mine.

Jan is a nice guy, who got his millions because he responded well to the dope of the day and was willing to take whatever Rudy shoved in his veins. Just like Lance, just like Riis. He may be a nice guy but as a doper he is no different. It is clear by your histrionics that this fact burns you up. It is not my fault Jan doped. I suggest directing your frustrations at the real cause

 

[Race Radio]

Sort of like 30-40 other riders from the same genre?

Yes, just like the 30-40 other riders who chose to take transfusions. Jan is no different. He may not have cheated those 30-40 guys but he did cheat hundreds of others who said no

Some here like to pretend that everyone was doing transfusions there is no evidence that supports this. Those who did them had great success, those who said no struggled along or dropped out of the sport.

 

[Ferminal]

People who didn't opt-in are kind of outside the domain. Almost all of them chose not to be a pro cyclist. Who are they? For every one of them there are how many dopers? Sure they might feel a bit of anger, but I bet they don't regret their decisions. And not one individual is responsible for creating that environment which forced them to make that choice.

 

[Race Radio]

People who didn't opt-in are kind of outside the domain. Almost all of them chose not to be a pro cyclist. Who are they? For every one of them there are how many dopers? Sure they might feel a bit of anger, but I bet they don't regret their decisions. And no one individual is responsible for putting them in that position.

Opt in to EPO? Correct, they were gone. Opt in to transfusions? That was a minority of riders. Many who said no are winning today.

Look at all the riders who suddenly can't ride a bike. Basso, Menchov, Karpets, The sport has been filled with chemical inventions

 

[Ferminal]

What is the difference between someone who takes EPO and someone who goes further for transfusions? If you apply a moral scale (for the sake of the discussion) how is being more ambitious and going for transfusions any worse than taking EPO and other PEDs, both have already burned the rule book long ago, and all of them have cheated out the real people who can feel aggrieved - those who quit or didn't land a contract because they weren't willing to sacrifice their morals. Yes Basso Ullrich etc won Grand Tours because they were the most ambitious dopers, those are the facts (as they relate to the actual situation, no point fantasising about who wins in a completely clean world). But I don't see how that should make them responsible for the doping problem any moreso than anyone else who chose the morally repugnant route.

 

[BroDeal]

What is the difference between someone who takes EPO and someone who goes further for transfusions?

Transfusions are bad, mmkay?

 

[Alex Simmons/RST]

What is the difference between someone who takes EPO and someone who goes further for transfusions?

The cost of entry to the club is far higher. It presents a barrier to entry for new business.

 

[ulrichw]

this is his respons but my german is not good enough to translatet it good enough

Liebe Fans,

heute Morgen bin ich von einer zehntägigen Mountainbike-Reise duch die Wildnis Colorados zurückgekehrt. Ich bin überrascht über die mediale Reaktion auf mein Interview in der aktuellen Focus-Ausgabe. Anlässlich der 100. Tour de France hat mich der Focus um ein Interview gebeten, welches kurz vor meiner Abreise geführt wurde und in dem es vorwiegend um andere Themen geht. Ihr könnt Euch alle selbst ein Bild davon machen. Und im Grunde habe ich nur in anderen Worten das wiederholt, was ich vor 14 Monaten nach meiner Verurteilung bereits gesagt habe. Die große Aufregung kann ich nicht nachvollziehen. Es war definitiv nicht meine Absicht, von der Deutschen Meisterschaft und den Vorbereitungen unserer Fahrer auf die Tour, abzulenken. Im Gegenteil, ich möchte den Deutschen Meistern Tony Martin (Zeitfahren) und André Greipel (Straße) gratulieren und wünsche allen deutschen Tour-Teilnehmern viel Erfolg!

Euer Jan

Translation:

Dear Fans,

This morning I returned from a 10 day mountain bike trip in the Colorado wilderness. I am surprised by the media reaction to my interview in the current edition of Focus. Because of the 100th Tour de France, Focus asked me for an interview which was completed shortly before my departure and which dealt primarily with other themes. You can paint your own picture from this. And I basically just repeated in other words what I already said 14 months ago after my conviction. I can't understand the big excitement. It was definitely not my intention to distract from the German championship and the preparations of our riders for the Tour. Quite the opposite: I'd like to congratulate the German champions Tony Martin (Time Trial) and Andre Greipel (Road) and wish all German Tour participants much success!

Your Jan

 

[thehog]

Tuesday is your day, not mine.

Jan is a nice guy, who got his millions because he responded well to the dope of the day and was willing to take whatever Rudy shoved in his veins. Just like Lance, just like Riis. He may be a nice guy but as a doper he is no different. It is clear by your histrionics that this fact burns you up. It is not my fault Jan doped. I suggest directing your frustrations at the real cause

Perhaps you should take your frustrations on Jan elsewhere?

Or perhaps let us know why you don't like him?

The implosion of T-Mobile perhaps?

If its personal. Take it to him.

Don't beat up theHog because he tells the story how is.

Now I'm off to console those poor neo pros who couldn't afford to transfuse.

Who was looking out for them? Having to use garden variety drugs. Poor souls

 

[thehog]

The cost of entry to the club is far higher. It presents a barrier to entry for new business.

Nah. In a lot of teams there was democracy. The wealthy guys made sure the doms were full. No one missed out.

Take yourself through the teams.

No one was missing out on the gold. It was funded.

Festina begin with what we call in England "the whip".

Entry price was based on status. A Dom would never have to pay what a GC guy would. They would just need a sponsor - a GC team.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Perhaps you should take your frustrations on Jan elsewhere?

Or perhaps let us know why you don't like him?

The implosion of T-Mobile perhaps?

If its personal. Take it to him.

Don't beat up theHog because he tells the story how is.

Now I'm off to console those poor neo pros who couldn't afford to transfuse.

Who was looking out for them? Having to use garden variety drugs. Poor souls

Missing the point, you are. Console away, good luck with that.

 

[Alex Simmons/RST]

Costs involve more than money.

A high barrier to entry also acts as a strong disincentive to cease or leave.

 

[Race Radio]

What is the difference between someone who takes EPO and someone who goes further for transfusions? If you apply a moral scale (for the sake of the discussion) how is being more ambitious and going for transfusions any worse than taking EPO and other PEDs, both have already burned the rule book long ago, and all of them have cheated out the real people who can feel aggrieved - those who quit or didn't land a contract because they weren't willing to sacrifice their morals. Yes Basso Ullrich etc won Grand Tours because they were the most ambitious dopers, those are the facts (as they relate to the actual situation, no point fantasising about who wins in a completely clean world). But I don't see how that should make them responsible for the doping problem any moreso than anyone else who chose the morally repugnant route.

I did not apply a moral scale to EPO/Transfusions, I applied a participation scale.

Saying that everyone was doing EPO in 98 has a lot of validity to it. There is a small percentage that said no but most said yes. The same is not true with transfusions. The majority said no, either because they found the process distasteful/dangerous or they could not afford the process.

 

[Race Radio]

Nah. In a lot of teams there was democracy. The wealthy guys made sure the doms were full. No one missed out.

Take yourself through the teams.

No one was missing out on the gold. It was funded.

Festina begin with what we call in England "the whip".

Entry price was based on status. A Dom would never have to pay what a GC guy would. They would just need a sponsor - a GC team.

Nonsense.

take yourself through the teams. USPS transfusion program was limited to a select few. The rich riders at Rabo went to Humapalsma. Jan had his own program, outside of Telekom's, for years. Did he make sure every rider on the team could afford the 100,000 per year he was paying Fuentes? Of course not. Even in 2007 only a few riders on Telekom went to get transfused. Floyd paid Lim $85,000 to help with his program.

The costs were shared in the 90's but by the 00"s riders were on their own

 

[Race Radio]

Perhaps you should take your frustrations on Jan elsewhere?

Or perhaps let us know why you don't like him?

The implosion of T-Mobile perhaps?

If its personal. Take it to him.

Don't beat up theHog because he tells the story how is.

Now I'm off to console those poor neo pros who couldn't afford to transfuse.

Who was looking out for them? Having to use garden variety drugs. Poor souls

Post, not poster.

I don't know how many times I have to write that Jan is a nice guy. He certainly is not the cause of the collapse of Telekom. He was long gone by then and had not used their program for years. Regardless, none of this has to do with the facts I have written.

We get it, Jan is your boy. He cannot do wrong. Don't expect everyone to also suspend rational thought because he is a nice guy

 

[rata de sentina]

The cost of entry to the club is far higher. It presents a barrier to entry for new business.

And that cost isn't just about currency it's about expertise and risk as well.

 

[Alex Simmons/RST]

And that cost isn't just about currency it's about expertise and risk as well.

Hence why I followed up with:

Costs involve more than money.

 

[blackcat]

People who didn't opt-in are kind of outside the domain. Almost all of them chose not to be a pro cyclist. Who are they? For every one of them there are how many dopers? Sure they might feel a bit of anger, but I bet they don't regret their decisions. And not one individual is responsible for creating that environment which forced them to make that choice.

self selective sample.

doping as barrier to entry.

so if one wants to determine the values and norms of the peloton, they are conducting a poll on a skewed sample.

 

[blackcat]

no. other riders were winning the tour before epo oat 22. if he was that talented, he would not have been climbing with the rouleurs like aldag said at telekom training campls

Tell my how won the tdf in 22 and was in ullrich generation? And in the movie about Telekom in the tdf 03 zabel was saying ullrich has a gift from god. And even how much my and aldag will train we will not stand a chance special in the mountains . Aldag was in the same room and didn't say one word about it. But what I found strange is that almost every Telekom rider have the devil as tattoo on there arm.
Maybe for protect the neddel scars or something?

was actually udo bolts, not aldag, (i think, passing on the anecdote of RR. getting to sino whispers phase)

 

[Galic Ho]

He only admitted to transfusions. Jan said

"Almost everyone then took performance-enhancing products. I didn't take anything that the others didn't take too"

Not many neo-Pro's had 100,000 to spend on Fuentes, it is clear "The others" were not on the same program as Jan

Sorry, not everyone transfused. 20 of the blood bags at Fuentes fridge belonged to one rider, Mancebo. 8 were Jan's.

I saw that list a few months back.

Basso had 11 or 12 right? Or was it a little more? His domestique, probably Frank Schleck had a lot to.

How many did Piti aka Valverde have? 1. That's right, 1 bag.

Who got the stiff end of the deal for what they were planning on doing?

 

[Galic Ho]

Yeah, and without bbs and epo he was a domestique at Ouch.

Um... Ouch!

Riis was rescued from unemployment and won the tour on epo.

The idea that anyone here in the clinic knows the natural talent of riders that cheated throughout their careers is just plain stupid.

You should not have mentioned Riis. Wanna know where he finished in the Tour he rode with Paul Kimmage? Both in 80 something place. Lemond won that Tour.

We know how good the 90s epo users were naturally. Those who debuted in the epo era, not so sure. But the guys who transitioned and started the blood doping...yeah we know how good they were. Chump change next to Lemond and Fignon. It is an absolute disgrace.

Floyd was quite honest. He said he'd evaluated whether he'd ever have had a chance winning clean given the nature of pro cycling and the answer was no. Plus he got the whole USADA ball rolling by coming clean. He has made amends IMO.

 

[thehog]

Nonsense.

take yourself through the teams. USPS transfusion program was limited to a select few. The rich riders at Rabo went to Humapalsma. Jan had his own program, outside of Telekom's, for years. Did he make sure every rider on the team could afford the 100,000 per year he was paying Fuentes? Of course not. Even in 2007 only a few riders on Telekom went to get transfused. Floyd paid Lim $85,000 to help with his program.

The costs were shared in the 90's but by the 00"s riders were on their own

Nonsense.

Do you think Manzano was paying 65k for transfusions in 2003?

Do you think Ricco homemade joblob cost him 100k.

Baloney sandwich.

Freiburg wasn't charging the price of a car for a transfusion.

Humanplasma? Rabo? Nothing like Ferrari