US prosecutors drop case against Armstrong/USPS

[Semper Fidelis]

I am having a great day, thank you. Which words did I "put in your mouth"?

The words where you have MvW concuring on LA being a / the target. Unless you hhave a link where MvW said exactly that then I guess ummmmmm not really????

 

[Anonymous]

The grand jury proceedings are secret.

And there's no way I'm going to get in a discussion in this forum over speculative facts. I've been accused of being a Livestrong fanboy enough.

Surely you have an opinion?

You have already formed one about doping.

So, how do you suppose LA paid for his PEDs? Did he declare the income from the sale of the TREK bikes? What of Landis' assertion of PEDs trafficked across international boreders? How would LA get dope to Tenerife for example? You think Ferrari was the mule? Was Girona the only place he stored his dope? How'd he get the PEDs there?

This all speaks nothing of the purchasing of the UCI....

Questions, questions, questions.

 

[Velodude]

The grand jury proceedings are secret.

And there's no way I'm going to get in a discussion in this forum over speculative facts. I've been accused of being a Livestrong fanboy enough.

You must mean facts speculated by others than yourself?

A number of your posts have been premised on a plethora of your ill concocted speculations.

 

[Race Radio]

Surely you have an opinion?

You have already formed one about doping.

So, how do you suppose LA paid for his PEDs? Did he declare the income from the sale of the TREK bikes? What of Landis' assertion of PEDs trafficked across international boreders? How would LA get dope to Tenerife for example? You think Ferrari was the mule? Was Girona the only place he stored his dope? How'd he get the PEDs there?

This all speaks nothing of the purchasing of the UCI....

Questions, questions, questions.

And of course flying to Aspen to confront Tyler in a bar was just two old buddies catching up on old times

 

[Dr. Maserati]

The words where you have MvW concuring on LA being a / the target. Unless you hhave a link where MvW said exactly that then I guess ummmmmm not really????

Well, I would prefer to hear from Mark - as to why now he only mentions Armstrong.
Nothing anymore about the other targets. Surely if there were more targets it would be unfair to just single out Lance?


And since you asked so nicely - here is just one example from a couple of pages ago.

So, Lance Armstrong should just be expected to roll over and endure an investigation and damage to his valuable reputation. Right?

You are actually arguing that Lance's hiring Fabiani establishes federal corruption? Whatever.

 

[Anonymous]

And of course flying to Aspen to confront Tyler in a bar was just two old buddies catching up on old times

Exactly. Prolly talking about Haven and all the good times in Girona.

It wasn't really a threat, per se. More of a guarantee. Either way there was no tampering. Nothing to it.

 

[goober]

How's that? I didn't know it was my source until I did a google search. I waste as little time on you as possible.

That is because that is the only news article I know of (others reference it) that talks about this. So, hence why I figured it was your source. Why the last statement? Are you OK? There are probably medicines that can help.

Edit. Don't answer - I know the answer.

 

[Race Radio]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/20...rmstrong-investigation-really-over/index.html

"there have obviously been many interviews, many statements made and other pieces of evidence that would be pretty helpful," says Howman, CEO of the World Anti-Doping Agency,

"We have received a request for information from USADA,"

That precedent has been, if anything, strengthened since then. In 2008, the U.S. Senate ratified the UNESCO Convention, a treaty created to give governments a legal framework to address doping in sport, mandating that criminal investigators share information with their national anti-doping agencies

"There are no legal hurdles" to the U.S. Attorney's office working with USADA, says one international official familiar with this case. "If they don't [hand evidence over], it will be because they're sitting on overwhelming evidence of drug cheating in sport. It will be an international sports doping cover-up of the worst sort."

 

[Anonymous]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/20...rmstrong-investigation-really-over/index.html

Oh dear...............

I guess we can safely add Howman to the Extreme Haters?

 

[Anonymous]

From the article RR linked to;

One gets the distinct impression that Birotte is no rush to work with USADA. That -- like his decision to drop the criminal case -- is strange, because there is a clear precedent for athletes being sanctioned by their governing bodies based on evidence gathered in the course of criminal investigations.

"The arc of the moral universe is long," as Martin Luther King Jr. observed, "but it bends toward justice." Years from now, or perhaps sooner, Armstrong may be on the receiving end of a bad-news phone call. He may find himself reaching for another beer, this time for a different reason.

 

[MarkvW]

Surely you have an opinion?

You have already formed one about doping.

So, how do you suppose LA paid for his PEDs? Did he declare the income from the sale of the TREK bikes? What of Landis' assertion of PEDs trafficked across international boreders? How would LA get dope to Tenerife for example? You think Ferrari was the mule? Was Girona the only place he stored his dope? How'd he get the PEDs there?

This all speaks nothing of the purchasing of the UCI....

Questions, questions, questions.

A lot of the stuff that Lance (just Lance) did gets wiped out by the SOL. All that's left is stuff that's hard to prove like conspiracy and RICO, which require a criminal agreement.

I have always figured that the feds might have had a hard time directly linking Armstrong to the "Postal Fraud." I doubt he played any direct role in the negotiation of the contract. To link him to fraud, you'd have to circumstantially link him to the people who negotiated the contract. You could get the negotiators for fraud if you could prove that they knew that Armstrong doped and was going to dope when they negotiated the contract, but to get Armstrong you'd need to prove that Armstrong was actually in on the fraud at the time of the negotiation--that he actually conspired with the negotiators to secure a contract that would facilitate his doping (not necessarily an evil mastermind, but at least a conniving apprentice). Finding DIRECT evidence of that kind of conspiracy is probably impossible. The prosecutors would have to go at it sideways with circumstantial evidence. I'm not talking about conspiring with other riders; I'm talking about conspiring with the Tailwinders and Johan, et al. before or during contract negotiations. We have no idea what evidence the feds had of that, and it is vital. Proving a criminal agreement by circumstantial evidence is hard--it is something that reasonable minds can differ on. And the negotiations happened a long time ago. There are obvious SOL problems.

This is just one tiny aspect of one part of what might (speculatively) have been considered. And this is utter heresy, per Velodude, FWIW.

 

[MarkvW]

From the article RR linked to;

But Betsy (in the Velonews interview) said that Birotte's office said that they were going to turn over all the stuff, except the GJ stuff, to WADA.

I just read the article. It looks like Betsy is not a reliable source.

 

[Epicycle]

What Austin Murphy leaves out in that SI article is that the Balco information took an extraordinary path. It first went to the Senate Commerce Committee after subpoena, then to USADA. There's no doubt the pending Olympics had a lot to do with those circumstances. Obviously this case doesn't share that urgency and the odds of Capitol Hill getting involved are slim. I'd like to see USADA bring the evidence gathered in this investigation into the light of day but this is not the same as the Balco case.

 

[MarkvW]

Oh dear...............

I guess we can safely add Howman to the Extreme Haters?

Has Howman taken a position regarding criminal prosecution? All Howman cares about is antidoping process. Everything I've read from him is only about antidoping. So, there is no way I would put him in with the Extreme Haters. He's not pressing for a criminal prosecution of Lance.

The feds have gotten WADA's request and they are considering it. Nothing abnormal, yet.

 

[Anonymous]

But Betsy (in the Velonews interview) said that Birotte's office said that they were going to turn over all the stuff, except the GJ stuff, to WADA.

I just read the article. It looks like Betsy is not a reliable source.

Betsy's not reliable because Birotte's office may have lied to her?

I'm beginning to understand why you are having so much trouble connecting the dots.

 

[Digger]

Has Howman taken a position regarding criminal prosecution? All Howman cares about is antidoping process. Everything I've read from him is only about antidoping. So, there is no way I would put him in with the Extreme Haters. He's not pressing for a criminal prosecution of Lance.

The feds have gotten WADA's request and they are considering it. Nothing abnormal, yet.

I would put money on with you that no evidence will be handed over. This thing is rotten.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

But Betsy (in the Velonews interview) said that Birotte's office said that they were going to turn over all the stuff, except the GJ stuff, to WADA.

I just read the article. It looks like Betsy is not a reliable source.

I preferred your post before you edited it.

But Betsy (in the Velonews interview) said that Birotte's office said that they were going to turn over all the stuff, except the GJ stuff, to WADA.

While Betsy is a shrieking harpy, I'm convinced she's a honest shrieking harpy.

 

[MarkvW]

Well, I would prefer to hear from Mark - as to why now he only mentions Armstrong.
Nothing anymore about the other targets. Surely if there were more targets it would be unfair to just single out Lance?


And since you asked so nicely - here is just one example from a couple of pages ago.

It's the Lance Armstrong thread?

 

[MarkvW]

I preferred your post before you edited it.

My opinion changed. She incorrectly reported the statement of the US Attorney's Office. She slashed her credibility with that statement.

 

[Anonymous]

My opinion changed. She incorrectly reported the statement of the US Attorney's Office. She slashed her credibility with that statement.

How so??????

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

BTW, what you guys still discuss back and forth? All those who can read and have common sense know that Armstrong doped.
I can understand naive fanboys posting nonsense, but 1.000+ posters??

Thanks in advance for the replys of those "heavy" posters who still thinking Armstrong is innocent...

 

[Race Radio]

My opinion changed. She incorrectly reported the statement of the US Attorney's Office. She slashed her credibility with that statement.

You are giving Betsy far too much credit. She is not the head the head of the UCI, WADA, USAC, or the IOC. She is a housewife whose main concern is figuring out what all-you-can eat buffet she is going to decimate tonight

 

[Dr. Maserati]

It's the Lance Armstrong thread?

The thread title is -"US prosecutors drop case against Armstrong/USPS"....

My opinion changed. She incorrectly reported the statement of the US Attorney's Office. She slashed her credibility with that statement.

Did she now?
Hmm, this article is from 7th February:

"If we receive a formal request for information or evidence gathered during our investigation, we will consider the request in light of our obligations under DOJ [Department of Justice – ed.] policy and federal law and respond accordingly,” Public Affairs officer Thom Mrozek told VeloNation. He added that he was speaking on behalf of Birotte.

 

[MarkvW]

How so??????

She said that Birotte's Office said it would turn the info over in the Velonews story. I even commented on that at the time, as it was news. Now, the US Attorney spokesman said that they'd gotten the request, that's all.

 

[MarkvW]

The thread title is -"US prosecutors drop case against Armstrong/USPS"....



Did she now?
Hmm, this article is from 7th February:

Read yesterday's VELONEWS article. Betsy gets it way wrong.