US prosecutors drop case against Armstrong/USPS

[BillytheKid]

The Feds advised Hamilton not to appear on 60 Minutes.

Floyd was told to cut the GreyManrod stuff.

I would agree. Bring out some of those tweets and it all gets a little embarrassing.

In saying all that. You only need to transcribe the life that Hamilton and Floyd live now. Completely cut off. They only need to show a few emails, a few phone calls and the wire calls on how McQuaid and Armstrong went about destroying their lives.

Alas we count the days till the leaks start filtering out.... it will come. It will come slowly but it will come.

It won't mean a lot but at least we get a truer reflection on how cycling is managed.

Hamilton said he was handed a white bag with goodies while at USPS...

 

[LarryBudMelman]

And now that I think about it, Hamilton's going on 60 Minutes couldn't possibly have been embraced by the prosecution team. The more a witness opens his mouth outside of the courtroom, the more things the defense gets to pick-apart on 'cross.
There is the evidence, and then how the evidence LOOKS when presented by people who start to look bad in front of the jury.

I'm not saying we don't need a review anymore. I'm saying that I understand more as to why they might have chosen to dump the case.

Floyd might be a poison tree.

Well, there's corroboration for both of those guys from unsullied witnesses. The more the defense picks apart true testimony, the stronger it should get and the weaker the defendent should look. A true statement is a true statement.

Of course the defense would try to ruin them but when you have a parade of witnesses and they're all saying the same thing are they all lying?

The prosecution can't get to the point where they're basically apologizing for going after the defendent.

That's what happens in these high profile cases. The defense starts saying the prosecution are haters and that's the only reason for targeting their client. The the prosecution starts going on the defensive with the apologies and explaining.

The whole deal is the prosecution is taking place because the defendent is a scumbag criminal and that's the only reason. If the other crap takes hold, the jury starts feeling sorry for the accused.

The same reasons we know that Armstrong is guilty have to be presented to the jury. Then guilt becomes obvious.

 

[LarryBudMelman]

Bingo.

Maybe you should just listen to me more instead of coming to these conclusions on your own.

You tend to use emotional appeals rather than factual arguments.

Prosecutors DO have to keep this in mind when presenting cases and really make clear what kind of person the defendent is.

Most of us here know the defendent in this instance is a scumbag and sociopath.

 

[LarryBudMelman]

looking back at his old posts this goober fellows predictions/posts are quite interesting, I think he might be onto something, I will wait for his book before making a final decision on him though :S

Yeah, he's John Edwards! Please! First of all, the only way he'd be able to reliably predict something is if he knew the fix was in and he was working for someone.

The powers that be at CN are so sensitive to that nonsense they've made it a violation of forum rules to post that or accuse someone of being an employee of the various "interests."

Secondly anyone who even remotely follows this stuff knows from all the published reports that Armstrong is guilty as sin and that there's a heck of a lot more that we don't know about.

The witness tampering itself is damning as is the crazy PR campaign.

The prosecution had a slam dunk case with voluminous credible evidence and you'd have to be Rip Van Winkle not to know that by now.

To argue otherwise is just silliness.

 

[LarryBudMelman]

Sure. Hincapie corroborated doping. A long time ago. And, as you yourself have said, doping isn't enough. The feds would have to establish some kind of fraud good enough to survive the Statute of Limitations.

You attacked the statute of limitations because the feds knew what they were doing. Now you attack the feds . . . Maybe this was all just a little more complicated than your snarky sniping would infer.

No, it wasn't complicated at all. The only thing that complicates matters is people such as yourself who try to complicate simple issues. Even with your best efforts you still can't do it.

Hincapie corroborated doping a long time ago???? WTF???

I admire your gall in being able to say anything without constraint? What's in it for you?

 

[Benotti69]

On this, I think your thinking is very solid. I think the only reason we've not yet seen a Repub congressman make a squawk is because the fear to tread on American heroes. A few more articles by the right people, making the right points, and I think we'll soon see some folks on Capitol Hill starting to look into this (and wanting answers).



I fully predict an eventual bankruptcy for him. He paid a lot of money to make this case go away. And he'll continue to pay to keep it away.

Be sure to read what I wrote last night about Landis, his French conviction and how convictions look to jurors in cases like this. If these guys dug-up a lot of poop on Armstrong in 2 years, think about what they might have also dug-up on Hamilton (et all). You need to have witnesses that you can contrast against the defendant. If they all look like criminals, then the whole thing looks like a farce. Like a mob trial.

Mob trials tend to get convictions. The head mobster/s, Lance/Hog, always looks worse than the soldiers. Landis and Hamilton were following orders from Lance/Hog. That's why Lance/Hog get the conviction.

 

[MarkvW]

The Feds advised Hamilton not to appear on 60 Minutes.

Floyd was told to cut the GreyManrod stuff.

I would agree. Bring out some of those tweets and it all gets a little embarrassing.

In saying all that. You only need to transcribe the life that Hamilton and Floyd live now. Completely cut off. They only need to show a few emails, a few phone calls and the wire calls on how McQuaid and Armstrong went about destroying their lives.

Alas we count the days till the leaks start filtering out.... it will come. It will come slowly but it will come.

It won't mean a lot but at least we get a truer reflection on how cycling is managed.

If the investigators are men and women of integrity, then there will not be leaks. I neither hope for, nor expect, leaks. I do hope, though, that all the juicy doping evidence gets submitted to WADA/USADA. That will make for a fun spectacle. Maybe when Lance is sixty years old, we can watch him get suspended two years for a doping violation!

 

[Benotti69]

If the investigators are men and women of integrity, then there will not be leaks. I neither hope for, nor expect, leaks. I do hope, though, that all the juicy doping evidence gets submitted to WADA/USADA. That will make for a fun spectacle. Maybe when Lance is sixty years old, we can watch him get suspended two years for a doping violation!

Who cares whether he gets a ban. What is important is that an official sporting Federation/Body proves his doping.

The ASO will ignore it. Bjarne Riis's name is still listed as the winner of the 1996 TdF, Contador 2010.

What is important is that the public know it.

Then the myth is dead, that is what is important.

The lie exposed.

When that happens Armstrong has nothing.

 

[MarkvW]

Who cares whether he gets a ban. What is important is that an official sporting Federation/Body proves his doping.

The ASO will ignore it. Bjarne Riis's name is still listed as the winner of the 1996 TdF, Contador 2010.

What is important is that the public know it.

Then the myth is dead, that is what is important.

The lie exposed.

When that happens Armstrong has nothing.

That one made me laugh! Everyone with half a brain already knows that Armstrong doped. Who cares what the people without half a brain think?

 

[goober]

That one made me laugh! Everyone with half a brain already knows that Armstrong doped. Who cares what the people without half a brain think?

What about the majority of the population, unlike you, that have a full brain?

 

[MarkvW]

What about the majority of the population, unlike you, that have a full brain?

Heck! They're doubly convinced that Lance doped. We don't have to worry about them.

 

[Polish]

Well, when the case was dropped if everyone came out and said, "not a surprise, we knew it for months" then RR would be wrong.
However Birottes decision caught out everyone (including goober, who last October was saying to expect charges)

Some in the clinic thought the "investigation" was over months ago. After the 18 month deadline passed. Thought the "investigation" died a silent death. The way it should have happened.

So I WAS suprised when Mr Birottes made the rare public announcement that the "investigation" was over. Squash all the rumour mongering.

And I was flabergasted to hear a leak that the "investigation" had ample evidence" and was "days away" from launching indictments and Novitsky ony just learned about the decision. Charles Pelkey launched that leak within hours of the press announcement. Un Named source.
And Munson quoting a Un Named source too.

Actually, those leaks, wherever they came from, were NOT suprising LOL.
Par for the course. The reason Mr Birottes had to make the rare public announcement in the first place I bet. Leaky smearjob. squash it. squash it good.

 

[MarkvW]

Some in the clinic thought the "investigation" was over months ago. After the 18 month deadline passed. Thought the "investigation" died a silent death. The way it should have happened.

So I WAS suprised when Mr Birottes made the rare public announcement that the "investigation" was over. Squash all the rumour mongering.

And I was flabergasted to hear a leak that the "investigation" had ample evidence" and was "days away" from launching indictments and Novitsky ony just learned about the decision. Charles Pelkey launched that leak within hours of the press announcement. Un Named source.
And Munson quoting a Un Named source too.

Actually, those leaks, wherever they came from, were NOT suprising LOL.
Par for the course. The reason Mr Birottes had to make the rare public announcement in the first place I bet. Leaky smearjob. squash it. squash it good.

That makes good sense.

 

[hrotha]

God help me. Something Polish said made perfect sense, regardless of its basis on reality.

 

[MarkvW]

God help me. Something Polish said made perfect sense, regardless of its basis on reality.

The rarity of it struck me too.

 

[thehog]

If the investigators are men and women of integrity, then there will not be leaks. I neither hope for, nor expect, leaks. I do hope, though, that all the juicy doping evidence gets submitted to WADA/USADA. That will make for a fun spectacle. Maybe when Lance is sixty years old, we can watch him get suspended two years for a doping violation!

It won't be the investigators leaking. It will be everyone else.

People have become so immunised to doping. There used to be such "shock and horror" at a positive or a doping ring bust. Now its par for the course.

Does anyone care anymore that Armstrong doped? Not really. Most have accepted he did.

It used to be so hard to talk about doping because there still was a belief the sport was clean. This week alone has dispelled any notion that the sport was on bread and water alone.

The UCI lit a exploding cigar with Ullrich. They thought by leading him through the town square for a public hanging would show they are tough on doping. All it did was reaffirm not just for ardent cycling fans but for casual onlookers that the sport is filthy to the core. Ullrich's death by firing squad has only made Armstrong's story all the more ridiculous - yes UCI he was so good he beat the next guy by 48 minutes after you erase the dopers.

To the original point; the leaks will come from those still caring the mental scars from that era and were involved in the fiasco. As humans it so hard to hold this stuff in forever. As human we want to talk. It won't be dam busting stories from Floyd but the bit actors in the story who participated in the joke that was Armstrong. There really is nothing to hide anymore.

Do you think if a masseur comes out with a story on USPS will anyone be shocked? Not really.

Cycling can't look to the future until it acknowledges this period. It really can't. The scourge will keep rising until it does.

 

[TexPat]

It won't be the investigators leaking. It will be everyone else.

People have become so immunised to doping. There used to be such "shock and horror" at a positive or a doping ring bust. Now its par for the course.

Does anyone care anymore that Armstrong doped? Not really. Most have accepted he did.

It used to be so hard to talk about doping because there still was a belief the sport was clean. This week alone has dispelled any notion that the sport was on bread and water alone.

The UCI lit a exploding cigar with Ullrich. They thought by leading him through the town square for a public hanging would show they are tough on doping. All it did was reaffirm not just for ardent cycling fans but for casual onlookers that the sport is filthy to the core. Ullrich's death by firing squad has only made Armstrong's story all the more ridiculous - yes UCI he was so good he beat the next guy by 48 minutes after you erase the dopers.

To the original point; the leaks will come from those still caring the mental scars from that era and were involved in the fiasco. As humans it so hard to hold this stuff in forever. As human we want to talk. It won't dam busting stories from Floyd but the bit actors in the story who participated in the joke that was Armstrong. There really is nothing to hide anymore.

Do you think if a masseur comes out with a story on USPS will anyone be shocked? Not really.

Cycling can't look to the future until it acknowledges this period. It really can't. The scourge will keep rising until it does.

Will it make any difference if that occurs here in the Clinic or in the WSJ?
Will anyone give a damn?
I had a conversation with a friend last night about the past week's events in which it finally dawned on me that none of this really matters to anyone except to those of us with "mental scars" and the few people with empathy, who I might add are an increasingly rare breed these days.

 

[jackwolf]

A few more articles by the right people, making the right points, and I think we'll soon see some folks on Capitol Hill starting to look into this (and wanting answers).

Just what I was thinking: a slow, well-paced three- or four-month campaign of showing us the cynical, abusive, vindictive, manipulative, hypocritical Armstrong (shouldn't be hard), follow it with the case being dropped on the day of the Super Bowl, with Contador being done the following Monday (whether it really is coincidental or not), with Ullrich being done a few days after, portrait them both as saints, throw in the look, Simeoni, livestrong.org and livestrong.com, Bassons for good measure, and link it all to Obama right in time for the election. Can't go wrong with that.
I'm upset that the biggest knob I know has been left off the hook, and also upset that we have such a weak and corrupt democracy in the USA. On the other hand, from the point of view of intrigue and speculation, the story has got a lot more interesting. He may end up dying a slower, more agonising death, who knows.

 

[Polish]

The rarity of it struck me too.

The rarity?
Have you been blinded by your Lance Hate?

I have been saying "Leaky Smearjob" since it became obvious a year ago.
SI/ESPN/WSJ/60Mins/Blogs/EtcEtcEtc.

Of course, the leaky smearjob will continue even now with the case closed.
But instead of saying "an un-named source close to the investigation" it will become "an un-named source who WAS close to the investigation".

SSDD SSDD SSDD SSDD.
I have said THAT before too in case you did not notice....

 

[Cal_Joe]

Will it make any difference if that occurs here in the Clinic or in the WSJ?
Will anyone give a damn?
I had a conversation with a friend last night about the past week's events in which it finally dawned on me that none of this really matters to anyone except to those of us with "mental scars" and the few people with empathy, who I might add are an increasingly rare breed these days.

You may be right. As of this post, there are only 106 signers of the White House petition - https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions?_escaped_fragment_=/petition/comment-lack-prosecution-lance-armstrong-despite-overwhelming-credible-evidence-crime-given-under/dBnnkGDr#!/petition/comment-lack-prosecution-lance-armstrong-despite-overwhelming-credible-evidence-crime-given-under/dBnnkGDr

Far less than I expected.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Will it make any difference if that occurs here in the Clinic or in the WSJ?
Will anyone give a damn?

Yes - they will.
Many who followed the myth will feel somewhat silly, they will probably never admit it and do as most do, just 'move on'.

I had a conversation with a friend last night about the past week's events in which it finally dawned on me that none of this really matters to anyone except to those of us with "mental scars" and the few people with empathy, who I might add are an increasingly rare breed these days.

Hmmm - I suppose we will not get to see LA going to jail, or having to pay a substantial cost for his fraud.
While that might have been a just result - I would assume that you are more interested in having your good name restored, so in that regard having his career exposed has done that.

Armstrong was exposed as a cheat, a liar and a bully - he may have retained his house, some cash and liberty but you stood by your principals, which is something that he can never posses.

 

[The Plediadian]

You may be right. As of this post, there are only 106 signers of the White House petition - https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions?_escaped_fragment_=/petition/comment-lack-prosecution-lance-armstrong-despite-overwhelming-credible-evidence-crime-given-under/dBnnkGDr#!/petition/comment-lack-prosecution-lance-armstrong-despite-overwhelming-credible-evidence-crime-given-under/dBnnkGDr

Far less than I expected.

Have faith Tyler, Floyd and Betsy haven't signed yet,(although I don't know if Floyd has retained his voting privileges.)

 

[Velodude]

If the investigators are men and women of integrity, then there will not be leaks. I neither hope for, nor expect, leaks. I do hope, though, that all the juicy doping evidence gets submitted to WADA/USADA. That will make for a fun spectacle. Maybe when Lance is sixty years old, we can watch him get suspended two years for a doping violation!

You are being extremely naive for a person with professional movements in life.

In 1973 Richard Nixon's income tax returns were leaked from within the inner sanctum for political mileage. They disclosed he was only paying hundreds of dollars of tax on hundreds of thousands of dollars income.

Since that exposure most if not all Presidents and Presidential candidates voluntarily disclose their income tax returns to be transparent to avoid suspicion.

Check on the Presidents, Vice Presidents and candidates who have voluntarily released their tax returns:

http://www.taxhistory.org/www/website.nsf/Web/PresidentialTaxReturns/

 

[Polish]

You may be right. As of this post, there are only 106 signers of the White House petition - https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions?_escaped_fragment_=/petition/comment-lack-prosecution-lance-armstrong-despite-overwhelming-credible-evidence-crime-given-under/dBnnkGDr#!/petition/comment-lack-prosecution-lance-armstrong-despite-overwhelming-credible-evidence-crime-given-under/dBnnkGDr

Far less than I expected.

That petition is a sad joke.
Who would want to sign that after reading it?

Force the POTUS to comment on a GJ investigation.
A GJ process that is supposed to be kept secret by law.

What is the POTUS supposed to say?
How about "Haters gonna Hate"

 

[Ulle Relaxes]

You just don't understand Polish. He will say..................