USADA - Armstrong

[Epicycle]

ROFL. Wow, this sounds oh so familiar. Oh wait, I remember now, this type of rant is basically a copy/paste from the US Dept of Justice failed case against Armstrong post in the other thread.

Why is this going to be any different? All of the evidence has been leaked, and is known regarding the situation. What exactly new or different or they going to come up with for "evidence" besides Landis and Hamilton and their fantastic eye witness accounts backed by their stellar credibility?!?!

So, what exactly are we going to learn from this case and what will happen?

Nothing. Wasted money.

I doubt zigmeister is really interested in understanding what it going on...but for anyone who shares his feelings and does want to get an idea of how it could go down, the Kayle Leogrande decision provides it. He was USADA's first non-analytical positive suspension:

LEOGRANDE DECISION

Kayle had a suspicious sample for EPO, told Rock Racing team staff he had used, and Joe Papp provided a photo that confirmed he was very familiar with the drug.

You will notice that in Kayle's case he was only suspended for a specific doping incident even though USADA tried to pin other stuff on him, which may bode relatively well for Lance and Johan, meaning they escape the worst possible sanctions. But there will be a whole lot more witness testimony against Lance than Kayle, and likely a lot of it will corroborate each other. Lance and Johan are in real jeopardy here.

 

[polisheggplant]

It was only a matter of time

Here in America, we are committed to ridding our homeland of these vile non-indigenous sports. The euro dominated cycling scene has enjoyed explosive growth in the United States thanks to the likes of Armstrong, and it is time that it comes to an end.

A cancer we could not rid ourselves of sooner. Children out excercising, couples out riding bikes together for fitness and enjoyment. People all over wearing silly colored, tight clothes and riding on streets instead of sidewalks..
Armstrong should be crucified for what he's done. And the U.S. should be ashamed for letting this man escape justice the first time.

This would never happen in a country like Spain! Valverde was handed right over to the world authorities for swift justice (wait, what?). Never mind Spain..

Next up, Landon Donnovan, and that silly game of soccer. Imagine trying to pass that over as football in the U.S....... Futbol' maybe, but FOOTBALL?

You gotta be kidding me...!

 

[Kennf1]

Don't forget to bid on a chance to experience Kona with Lance! Oh, wait...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190687355861#ht_3850wt_1189

Only one bidder so far. He may just win!
At some point, they will add a footnote that your dinner and training ride with Lance will actually be with an understudy.

 

[Escarabajo]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/chris-horner-i-dont-believe-armstrong-cheated

<sigh>

Oh dear. Horner remember you still riding for Johan and nobody is going to care for what you say. Besides he already made his mind about the Tour team (LOL).

 

[thehog]

Oh dear. Horner remember you still riding for Johan and nobody is going to care for what you say. Besides he already made his mind about the Tour team (LOL).

Looks like RadioShack are about to be booted from the Tour: http://www.rmcsport.fr/editorial/266964/radioshack-premiere-victime-de-l-affaire-armstrong/

 

[The Gnome]

Bob Roll is SUCH a neutral and disinterested 'analyst.'

the bob roll commentary is so ridiculous...I can't even find the words...but I mean, how pathetic and why even bother...old habits die hard and even in the midst of such swill bob manages to blame the great one's lowly last tour as the result of lots of "bad luck"...a shrill right to the end...wouldn't it be wonderful (and ethical) that one of the consequences of lance being brought down to earth would also be the firing of bob, phil and paul for their years of using versus/nbc as predominately the armstrong shrill organ...would happen in any sport that is taken seriously...but we know that ain't gonna take place...

 

[mewmewmew13]

Looks like RadioShack are about to be booted from the Tour: http://www.rmcsport.fr/editorial/266964/radioshack-premiere-victime-de-l-affaire-armstrong/

Thanks hog. classic photo on that article

 

[Escarabajo]

Two of the more knowledgable people discuss the happenings:

Bonnie Ford - http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/8051461/usada-actions-lance-armstrong-start-series-events-strip-tour-de-france-titles

Charles Pelkey -http://redkiteprayer.com/2012/06/the-explainer-just-when-i-thought-i-was-out-they-pull-me-back-in/

Statute of Limitations for 8 years goes to 2004. Take away two titles. Give one to Kloden and the other one to Basso. Both of them already negotiated with their federations so nothing will happen to them and problem solved.

Having said that, USADA sounds very mad. I think they are going for the whole thing unless they are persuaded by ASO. Just crazy thinking. I don't think that ASO wants all the Tour de France being stripped. It would be a complete mess.

 

[pedaling squares]

Wow, they might get the Astana '08 treatment. They might want to dump Johan and bring back Kim to salvage their spot.

 

[hrotha]

Oh well, Horner's trip to the dark side is complete now. Biggest sellout in the history of the sport.

 

[polisheggplant]

Cmon

Should every commentator be fired for every one they praised that turned out to be dirty. I wonder, have any other casters praised anyone like, oh I don't know, lets say, Alberto? The same Alberto who refuses to admit he doped, despite 'positive test results'. If so, these commentators should be fired. Then, when every notable commentator is gone, we can fill them in with, lets see, I don't know, the writers on this forum....?

 

[Oldman]

Oh well, Horner's trip to the dark side is complete now. Biggest sellout in the history of the sport.

I have loved the guy's racing style from his amateur days but he's living in the same house as Lance with his statements. And by living you know what we all think.

 

[Oldman]

Should every commentator be fired for every one they praised that turned out to be dirty. I wonder, have any other casters praised anyone like, oh I don't know, lets say, Alberto? The same Alberto who refuses to admit he doped, despite 'positive test results'. If so, these commentators should be fired. Then, when every notable commentator is gone, we can fill them in with, lets see, I don't know, the writers on this forum....?

No, Gomer. Just the one's that absolutely KNOW what's going on and have a vested financial interest in perpetuating the lie.

 

[spetsa]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/chris-horner-i-dont-believe-armstrong-cheated

<sigh>

I hope Horner wasn't stupid enough to lie to investigators and now finds it neccessary to go down with a sinking ship. I wonder if this has anything to do with his TDF ommission?

 

[airstream]

I'm strongly against doping but heck which ideological base and unified approach would be possible to pave between the past and the future? It's absolutely unreal. To where will all that stuff lead?

 

[The Gnome]

Horner: "Do we have pictures of it? Video or testing? Because without that you really don’t have anything.”

Good thing Horner knows how to ride a bike...don't believe any job having to do with intellectual stuff, or using the brain in general would have gotten him too far...

 

[pot belge]

I loved watching Lance. Just as I loved watching Alberto and Jan (though more Jan for his epic losses to Lance). They're all dopers. Thats why they win in such epic proportions. Is everyone here seriously saying that Lance didn't dominate the sport for the time he was in it? More importantly, are we actually to believe that everyone else was clean at the time he was riding? Thats rediculous. I believe that had eveyone been doping at the same time, guys like Lance and Alberto would still have been winning. They were intense about what they do, and while everyone at their level has to be intense about the sport to some degree, they were obviously as obsessed as anyone.

Lance is just the easiest to hate by the masses. Some of that he can't control (like being an American in a Euro dominated sport) and some he can (like being an arrogant jerk around everyone he encounters at one point or another).

I also loved watching those who we 'think' have been clean, like Lemond, Indurain, Hinault and Fignon. But times have changed, and it seems less likely to be successful and clean in this sport than it does to be successful and dirty.

I don't necessarily love watching Evans, but I appreciate what he does, and Wiggins continues to dominate and impress. Do I question their cleanliness? Yup. How could you not. But I don't hate them.

I'll admit, I never liked Fignon. Great character though. He fit everyones image of the dirty, nasty snobby little frenchman many of us loved to hate. But I wouldn't want to lose my memory of him and his tours for anything.

SOCKPUPPET! alert.

 

[Benotti69]

I guess we can safely assume Horner is not one of the former teammates to testify against LA.

probably just hoping to get paid But no Horner sold his soul when he joined Bruyneel.

 

[polisheggplant]

Gomer? Name calling eh? We're all so brave on a keyboard. Any commentator worth anything should KNOW whats going on, and they all have a vested interest in perpetuating interest in the sport.. They praise every champion, and they're praising lance is no different than their praise of Alberto or any other dirty champion in this sport. And there are a lot of them. Gomer.....

 

[Berzin]

If politics kept Horner from inclusion in the Tour, then good.

After this disgraceful interview, I lost all respect for him-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ituh5z6P6TU&feature=related

 

[blackcat]

And in a completely unrelated matter, who is Wiggo's doctor/trainer, btw...? Anyone know?

Max Sciandri will be the guy who deals with Cav's suppliers. Think , that is "think (like)" how Kim Anderson has always handled the "off the bike logistics" So whilst Sciandri may not have Cecchini to go to anymore, he will have someone of similar ilk, and knows how to manipulate the blood paremeters.

 

[The Gnome]

Should every commentator be fired for every one they praised that turned out to be dirty. I wonder, have any other casters praised anyone like, oh I don't know, lets say, Alberto? The same Alberto who refuses to admit he doped, despite 'positive test results'. If so, these commentators should be fired. Then, when every notable commentator is gone, we can fill them in with, lets see, I don't know, the writers on this forum....?

There is a big difference between buying some guy's story and finding out the truth...and becoming a main propaganda organ to spread lies along with vested interests...you will notice, I hope, there aren't alot of baseball commentators still around spreading the gospel that their buddy Pete Rose never bet on baseball...rather, they are unemployed and most likely out at the racetrack...

 

[MarkvW]

I doubt zigmeister is really interested in understanding what it going on...but for anyone who shares his feelings and does want to get an idea of how it could go down, the Kayle Leogrande decision provides it. He was USADA's first non-analytical positive suspension:

LEOGRANDE DECISION

Kayle had a suspicious sample for EPO, told Rock Racing team staff he had used, and Joe Papp provided a photo that confirmed he was very familiar with the drug.

You will notice that in Kayle's case he was only suspended for a specific doping incident even though USADA tried to pin other stuff on him, which may bode relatively well for Lance and Johan, meaning they escape the worst possible sanctions. But there will be a whole lot more witness testimony against Lance than Kayle, and likely a lot of it will corroborate each other. Lance and Johan are in real jeopardy here.

In a criminal case, you need to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the dope was real dope. Almost always, you need a chemical analysis of the substance to do that.

In a USADA hearing, you need to prove that it is more probable than not that the dope was real dope. If Tyler says that Lance told him that the stuff was dope and that Lance gave the dope to him, and that he used the stuff like real dope, and it worked like real dope--and the arbitrator believes Tyler--then, for purposes of the hearing the dope really is dope. Obviously, this also makes proving blood and saline transfusions very easy.

In a non-analytical positive case, it is all about credibility. If the arbitrators believe USADA's witnesses, then the game is over for Lance.

Surely Tyler, and especially Floyd, are vulnerable witnesses, but it looks like USADA has much more than just Tyler and Floyd--and who knows how much more USADA is going to get now that the once invulnerable Postie Omerta Conspiracy has now been irrevocably breached.

If he's gonna fight, Lance must testify. Fighting the USADA is a waste of his time if he doesn't testify and deny. And the feds will be watching. And the feds have a massive pile of very particular evidence about Lance and the Postie doping practices (and might even suggest a question or two to USADA). While Lance is testifying, he will not know what the federal government knows. How can poor Lance fashion a credible lie under such circumstances? If he lies and the feds have contradictory evidence . . ..

 

[thehog]

If politics kept Horner from inclusion in the Tour, then good.

After this disgraceful interview, I lost all respect for him-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ituh5z6P6TU&feature=related

Back in 07 he was making drug references to USPS how it was possible to have 4-5 guys from one gem starting the final climb.

 

[blackcat]

But we don't really want a clean sport. There are many here who say that they do. But clean sport is boring. Should an athlete actually succumb to the physical stresses of the sport... you know, act like a real human and falter from the effort, there will be a new thread here in the Clinic from those same people about why that rider sucks now. We all want to see Pantani or Armstrong, or Rasmussen or Contador rip the legs off their rivals with a super human attack on the final climb. Anything less is just p!ss poor racing, and more fodder for the Forum.

flaw in theory.

The contest is zero sum. Give us a sport, where there is no USPS train on the Queen stage riding train from 3 hors category climbs out from the final ascent.

2 decades back (and they still doped before the blood, oxygen vector doping) there would be pure climbers, and the heads of state going tete a tete, in the final 2 HC ascents, with few helpers, or no helpers. No one could stay with them, unless they were genuine GC competitors.

So I can put a decent counterweight, without doping, there was a more contest that divided true racehorses, from the Levi donkeys.