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Velo d’Or 2023

Page 14 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
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Who will win?

  • MVDP

    Votes: 63 36.2%

  • Vingo

    Votes: 26 14.9%

  • Roglic

    Votes: 12 6.9%

  • Pog

    Votes: 61 35.1%

  • Remco

    Votes: 5 2.9%

  • It's over. It absolutely, positively, definitely has to be MVDP

    Votes: 3 1.7%

  • Ok, they gave it to Cringegard, like I give a ***

    Votes: 1 0.6%

  • Froome

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Rackham

    Votes: 1 0.6%

  • Netserk

    Votes: 2 1.1%
  • Total voters
    174
H

houtdffan

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The fridge in the blue trees said:
It's basically one semi final Van der Poel vs Pogacar. Van der Poel winning now, Pogacar needs Lombardia plus at least one more 1 day race. At least.

Other semifinal is Vingegaard-Roglic-Evenepoel. Only by winning the Vuelta they have a chance. For Vinge just the Vuelta could be enough. Should be. For Roglic and Evenepoel not, they need either a really dominating Vuelta win, or then the Vuelta plus Lombardia. The TT today IMO makes little difference at this point. Don't rate that highly really, I'd rather have somebody win Gent-Wevelgem than the Worlds TT.
Click to expand...

GW over the world TT?

ummmmmmmmmmmmm?
 
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The fridge in the blue trees

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houtdffan said:
I'd move the big 4 stage races (PN, TA, CDD, TDS above the other 3 WT stage races). Those are basically the monuments of week long racing
Click to expand...
Monuments of week long racing... It's always changing.

Tirreno for a long time was pure Sanremo preparation, prestige nowhere near Paris Nice. It still has some MSR prep characteristics, but has become much more its own race, with that comes the prestige, which right now basically is equal to PN, unless you keep the history in mind.
Catalanya on the other hand has a much longer history. With many of the other week long spanish races dying out, the other catalan race Setmana Catalana too, it has somehow gained importance,(it was always more important than SEtmana Catalana of course) but with changing dates maybe a bit less? While TA and PN have the full field, Catalunya with the north in full swing has to deal with a lesser classic field. Right now seems below Tirreno, but overall I'd rate it equal really. Same for the Basques. AS for Romandie, it has lost a bit of its Giro prep race, many used to be there, now almost nobody shows up.

For me ok to rate them all equally, but if we really need to separate them I'd think Paris-Nice and the Tour de Suisse (for historic reasons, the quality has been below the Dauphiné for a while now) are above the others. With Romandie maybe as number 7?

As for 1 day races, yes, I rate Gent Wevelgem, the Flèche Wallonne above the ITTs. Strade Bianche haven't thought about it, but it's getting there for sure. Amstel and San SEbastian, as long Pogacar and Evenepoel winning gives prestige to the race and not the other way around... they are nowhere near Gent and the Flèche! Below Paris-Tours. Which is suffering due to ASO and UCI weirdness. but 20 years ago IMO was closer to the monuments then any other race.
 
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Big Doopie

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VayaVayaVaya said:
If no one crashes out or is clearly off, and Roglic beats Remco and Vingegaard in the Vuelta, he gets my vote.
Click to expand...

Yup. Hard to argue The only thing that weighs against possibly is the lack of diversity (all stage races). Kinda like the only thing going against VDP (all one day races). You could even say the same with Vingo but he has the trump card, the TDF. Pog is diverse, but would need Lombardia me thinks. Only way Remco wins again is with a Vuelta win and he would likely need Lombardia as well.
 
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SHAD0W93

SHAD0W93

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dennisdy said:
I too agree. Roglic will have won two grand tours and three stage races. When is the last time someone has done that?
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Hinault, but Vinge can do it as well and has the trump card of not only dominating the competition but winning the Tour as well. Roglic would have the advantage that he never lost. But 4 has happened pretty frequently recently. I didn’t check for four for every rider, just those I could think of that’d have won 4 or more stage races including a GT and the double GT wins that had 4 or more stage race wins.

1970 Merckx 2 GTs and 4 stage races
1973 Merckx 2 GTs and 4 stage races

1963 Anquetil 2 GTs and 3 stage races
1982 Hinault 2 GTs and 3 stage races

1972 Merckx 2 GTs and 2 stage races
2008 Contador 2 GTs and 2 stage races

2013 Froome 1 GT and 4 stage races

2010* Contador 1 GT and 3 stage races
2012 Wiggins 1 GT and 3 stage races
2019 Roglic 1 GT and 3 stage races
2021 Pogacar 1 GT and 3 stage races
2023* Vingegaard 1 GT and 3 stage races
 
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dennisdy

dennisdy

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Thanks for doing this research! It will be exciting to see if Primoz or Jonas can make it happen. If Jonas should win, will he try his hand at the Giro next year? If he should succeed, he would be the champion of all three grand tours, (albeit not in the same year)!
 
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Bolder

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dennisdy said:
I too agree. Roglic will have won two grand tours and three stage races. When is the last time someone has done that?
Click to expand...
I agree that's an impressive feat. But I have a somewhat dimmer view on non-GT stage races, which is that rarely do all the best riders peak for them. So you have a situation where the guy who crushed all comers in the TdF is pretty meh in P-N. So to me a monument victory is worth a lot more than, say, Pais Vasco or the Dauphine.
 
Rackham

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Bolder said:
I agree that's an impressive feat. But I have a somewhat dimmer view on non-GT stage races, which is that rarely do all the best riders peak for them. So you have a situation where the guy who crushed all comers in the TdF is pretty meh in P-N. So to me a monument victory is worth a lot more than, say, Pais Vasco or the Dauphine.
Click to expand...

Monuments and world championships are different types of routes though, i.e. routes which suit riders who usually totally unsuited for GT racing. Pogačar is the exception to the rule (& maybe Evenepoel to an extent) because neither Van der Poel nor Wout van Aert (aka riders typically named as classics specialists) can do diddly squat in a GT or one of the harder one week stage races (Dauphiné, Itzulia, Catalunya etc.).

My point is I question the intrinsic value of placing Monuments > stage races when it comes to determining the 'best riders'. Take the recent worlds in Glasgow: it was an atypical route for 99% of the riders doing it, i.e. one which gave cyclo-cross guys like VdP a huge advantage.

I'm not even a fan of Vingegaard (for example) but for me his performance in Itzulia was very, very impressive. It takes an otherworldly type of athletic performance to just ride away from the bunch the way he did on hard climbs like that.

It's why I'd like to finally see a world championship route with a proper climber parcours & not a circuit with a gimmicky punchy climb repeated 100 times just so the riders with the biggest explosive engines can blow everyone else off their wheels. No, give us a real mountain route over 250km with a special cat final climb over 10% for more than 5km's.

Then we'll see a different type of rider profile become 'world champion'.
 
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Bolder

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Rackham said:
Monuments and world championships are different types of routes though, i.e. routes which suit riders who usually totally unsuited for GT racing. Pogačar is the exception to the rule (& maybe Evenepoel to an extent) because neither Van der Poel nor Wout van Aert (aka riders typically named as classics specialists) can do diddly squat in a GT or one of the harder one week stage races (Dauphiné, Itzulia, Catalunya etc.).

My point is I question the intrinsic value of placing Monuments > stage races when it comes to determining the 'best riders'. Take the recent worlds in Glasgow: it was an atypical route for 99% of the riders doing it, i.e. one which gave cyclo-cross guys like VdP a huge advantage.

I'm not even a fan of Vingegaard (for example) but for me his performance in Itzulia was very, very impressive. It takes an otherworldly type of athletic performance to just ride away from the bunch the way he did on hard climbs like that.

It's why I'd like to finally see a world championship route with a proper climber parcours & not a circuit with a gimmicky punchy climb repeated 100 times just so the riders with the biggest explosive engines can blow everyone else off their wheels. No, give us a real mountain route over 250km with a special cat final climb over 10% for more than 5km's.

Then we'll see a different type of rider profile become 'world champion'.
Click to expand...
I agree that WCRR is a beast of its own. But we'll probably always going to have circuits that won't favor pure climbers. That said I wonder how Vingegaard would have done on the 1980 Sallanches hell course. He certainly crushed dormancy in the Tour ITT.
 
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houtdffan

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Rackham said:
Monuments and world championships are different types of routes though, i.e. routes which suit riders who usually totally unsuited for GT racing. Pogačar is the exception to the rule (& maybe Evenepoel to an extent) because neither Van der Poel nor Wout van Aert (aka riders typically named as classics specialists) can do diddly squat in a GT or one of the harder one week stage races (Dauphiné, Itzulia, Catalunya etc.).

My point is I question the intrinsic value of placing Monuments > stage races when it comes to determining the 'best riders'. Take the recent worlds in Glasgow: it was an atypical route for 99% of the riders doing it, i.e. one which gave cyclo-cross guys like VdP a huge advantage.

I'm not even a fan of Vingegaard (for example) but for me his performance in Itzulia was very, very impressive. It takes an otherworldly type of athletic performance to just ride away from the bunch the way he did on hard climbs like that.

It's why I'd like to finally see a world championship route with a proper climber parcours & not a circuit with a gimmicky punchy climb repeated 100 times just so the riders with the biggest explosive engines can blow everyone else off their wheels. No, give us a real mountain route over 250km with a special cat final climb over 10% for more than 5km's.

Then we'll see a different type of rider profile become 'world champion'.
Click to expand...

There should be a mountain worlds course every 3 years or so.

One I'd love to see is the 2003 ADH stage. Except we do a circuit of the Sarenne twice before the final climb of ADH
 
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