Teams & Riders Vincenzo Nibali discussion thread

[Gloin22]

Westra actually won a stage in Catalunya. Is that jack sh**??

He got injured in april due to a fall in the classics I think

It is **** for his standards. However for Astana standards atm, that's amazing.

 

[maxmartin]

What kind of a question is that? That La Gazzetta fabricated the story? On this point, which newspapers can be trusted? Only those not Italian? Is that what you are getting at?

During the Giro the RAI commentary mentioned that Aru's third place saved Martinelli's position within Astana (or rather that if Aru didn't podium, Martinelli would have been fired).

Now I immediately thought then that it must be connected to Astana's being unsatisfied with Nibali's results in 2014. The letter has now demonstrated this beyond any doubt.

Nibali probably thought he needed to move to a non-Italian team to step up to another level, as Basso did when he left Fassa-Bartolo for CFC. Yet the two riders and situations are completely different and, aside from his Giro victory, the decision has not been fortuitous.

Don't think that is the case, if that is the reason why Nibali pushed so hard to try to get his old coach back after winning the Giro?

 

[rhubroma]

Smog bomb, if the letter is about the Ardeness, why someone choose this peculiar time to disclose it?

The letter was triggered by the Ardennes, but it was the result of Nibali not performing since the beginning of the season in a way befitting of a rider who can realistically challenge for the Tour.
After the Ardennes, in fact, Nibali in a la Gazzetta interview said he was not at all feeling at ease in light of the way his condition was coming along.
To make matters worse for the Sicilian, Contador demonstrated he has thus far been back to his greatness, while Froome, who won at Oman and then Romandie with a powerful final time trial, casts himself as the number one favorite for the Yellow Jersey next month (we expect confirmation of this at the Dauphine). Only a Contador in top shape has any chance of unseating Froome and reclaiming his throne.
Still worse for the Sicilian was that Aru stole the show for Astana at the Giro.

I think Vinokourov now realizes his poor judgment before the Kazak oligarchy and needed to take a hard line with his prot

 

[rhubroma]

Don't think that is the case, if that is the reason why Nibali pushed so hard to try to get his old coach back after winning the Giro?

In fact this is why the move was not well calculated. He couldn't live with Basso to enjoy sole leadership responsibilities, although this has proved also to have not been well founded, as Vincenzo would have naturally taken over as was already agreed upon between himself and Basso and within the team.

All that money got to his head evidently and the seduction of Vinokourov. Man I'd stay as far from that guy as I could

My statement was, furthermore, taken from the context of Nibali himself at the time mentioning that Basso's example a CFC was a motivation for leaving an Italian team.

What he didn't realize, however, was that the situations while apparently similar, due to a number of factors, were in fact quite different. Nibali trying to get his old trainer back is only confirmation of this.

 

[rhubroma]

Something is not working. I wanted to finish the incomplete post with:

I think Vinokourov now realizes his poor judgment before the Kazak oligarchy and needed to take a hard line with his prot

 

[maxmartin]

Something is not working. I wanted to finish the incomplete post with:

I think Vinokourov now realizes his poor judgment before the Kazak oligarchy and needed to take a hard line with his prot

LOL you are too early to jump off the Nibali ship. You should wait until the middle way of the Tour. Haha

 

[webbie146]

From the information I got in the la Gazzetta article the guy would seem to be Aleksander Shefer, though it does not indicate when he was hired.

Who was his coach/trainer during 2013? Has that guy left and been replaced by Shefer?

Beppe Martinelli is his old coach from 2012 correct?

 

[rhubroma]

LOL you are too early to jump off the Nibali ship. You should wait until the middle way of the Tour. Haha

Na. I'd love for him to win the Tour. But I am a realist. Against those two in July, he hasn't got the power to win.

 

[rhubroma]

Who was his coach/trainer during 2013? Has that guy left and been replaced by Shefer?

I don't know the article didn't say.

 

[rhubroma]

Did you see him ride last year? He didn't only win the giro last year I can tell you

But he didn't ride the Tour, so those results need to placed within their proper perspective.

 

[Pack Fodder]

Na. I'd love for him to win the Tour. But I am a realist. Against those two in July, he hasn't got the power to win.

No. He doesn't. But he might, might, just have the smarts. What he needs, really, is a bit of rain on the right stages, and for contador and froome to obsess about each other. That might just open up an opportunity or two on some ragged descents to put time in...and then hang on for dear life.

 

[webbie146]

I don't know the article didn't say.

Found it:

"The team announced today that Maurizo Mazzoleni would help guide Nibali to what it hopes will be grand tour success."

"Martinelli revealed this morning in Italy’s La Gazzetta dello Sport that he had signed a deal with Maurizio Mazzoleni, who runs the Modus Vivendi training center in Bergamo. Mazzoleni has worked with several professionals and freelanced with Guercilena."

So Maurizo Mazzoleni helped him win the Giro and deliver great performances in 2013. Then at the end of 2013...

Vincenzo Nibali will again work with trainer Paolo Slongo as he prepares to win the Tour de France next year. After five years together at Cannondale, Astana hired Slongo and reunited the duo"

"Maurizio Mazzoleni, hired last year, will follow the other riders."

Well clearly that did not have a positive effect. Astana better assign Mazzoleni to Nibs again

Could explain his change in cadence too. If you watch some video's from the tdf 2012 you can clearly see Nibali using a fairly high cadence when on the attack (higher power output, higher cadence) as seen here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=sNq-ihTmbPc#t=1301

In 2013 he clearly used a lower cadence when climbing putting more stress on the muscles, but it seemed to have a positive effect on him.

Now he's back at his old coach and the higher cadence is back as seen here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=DSSZWiJYdEk#t=226

and here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=q4B7MMO26MQ#t=351

let's hope he's in good form this Dauphine.

 

[SafeBet]

The trainer Nibali got from Liquigas is Paolo Slongo. I don't know why you guys keep mentioning Shefer as a newcomer, he's been Astana DS for years now. He's actually never been with other teams since retiring as a cyclist (still with Astana).

Martinelli has also been with Astana for years as a DS.

This article by Gazzetta is the typical scoop contemporary journalists put together to try and sell more copies. Where's the news really? Does your boss hug you and pays for your dinner after you do a bad job for half a year? Well, lucky you. It's surely not happening to me.

and that's not to say there's no issue with Nibali this year. I've been pointing it out for months now. At this point, you can only wait for July and hope. Its not easy to be at the top year in and year out in pro sports, and he's actually been the most consistent rider from 2010 on.

 

[jens_attacks]

still not worried about nibali. i think he will be in his top form for le tour.

 

[SafeBet]

Well clearly that did not have a positive effect. Astana better assign Mazzoleni to Nibs again

Slongo did an amazing job with Nibbles in the past. And check Cannondale results since parting ways with him.

You guys keep blaming trainers when in fact most of the times riders who underperform have only themselves to blame.
Career year + fat contract + family issues. It seems very likely to me that he didn't train as much as he should have.

As for Astana, most of their riders underperfomed in 2013 as well (Iglinsky, Kessi, Tiralongo, Guardini, Jani).

 

[webbie146]

Slongo did an amazing job with Nibbles in the past. And check Cannondale results since parting ways with him.

You guys keep blaming trainers when in fact most of the times riders who underperform have only themselves to blame.
Career year + fat contract + family issues. It seems very likely to me that he didn't train as much as he should have.

As for Astana, most of their riders underperfomed in 2013 as well (Iglinsky, Kessi, Tiralongo, Guardini, Jani).

I'm not saying it's 100% Slongo's fault. Most of the time it's like u say a combination of a few factors. But as a trainer he is partially responsible. He did a good job with Nibs in the past. Looking back 2011 he was good in the Giro, rest of the year pretty sucky. 2012 He came back swinging and was great.

In 2013 though he had his best year so far, not only by looking at his wins but performance wise. Ferrari wrote on his blog after 2013 that Nibali definitely improved a lot in both his TT'ing and climbing.

We will see how he goes this Dauphine. A trainer def makes a difference. Just look at Contador. Sure he's more focused this year, trains harder, but de Jongh makes a clear difference for him performance wise.

 

[hfer07]

If Mazzolenni was behind Nibali's success in 2013- then why switch to Slongo? That doesn't make sense.

 

[maxmartin]

If Mazzolenni was behind Nibali's success in 2013- then why switch to Slongo? That doesn't make sense.

maybe Nibali think Slongo can do an even better job, he pushed for him to be hired by Astana

 

[maxmartin]

Found it:


So Maurizo Mazzoleni helped him win the Giro and deliver great performances in 2013. Then at the end of 2013...

Vincenzo Nibali will again work with trainer Paolo Slongo as he prepares to win the Tour de France next year. After five years together at Cannondale, Astana hired Slongo and reunited the duo"



let's hope he's in good form this Dauphine.

I answered it on Page 372

 

[rhubroma]

No. He doesn't. But he might, might, just have the smarts. What he needs, really, is a bit of rain on the right stages, and for contador and froome to obsess about each other. That might just open up an opportunity or two on some ragged descents to put time in...and then hang on for dear life.

I know, but they are too many variables to not be a realist. But, hey, all the best to him!

 

[maxmartin]

But he didn't ride the Tour, so those results need to placed within their proper perspective.

exactly he is riding for the Tour this year not Giro, I want to see his spring results are different from the years he is riding for Giro. He needs to do different preparation in order to win the Tour.

 

[ciranda]

So awesome that Vino sent a letter, please say it was handwritten. Thanks to Kazpost!

 

[IndianCyclist]

If the letter is true then i think Vino is making a mistake. Very few riders consistently win

 

[movingtarget]

If the letter is true then i think Vino is making a mistake. Very few riders consistently win

It's hard to believe but we are talking about Vino. Might get interesting especially when Nibali's contract expires. Aru might be preferred by then.

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

the letter was sent to pretty much everyone on the team. Its a no story really...

Speaking to Velobike.it later on Friday, Nibali's agent Alex Carera said that all of Astana's riders - and not just Nibali - had received the same letter following the team's low-key start to the year. "It was normal to send out a communication asking for 100 percent from the riders," he said.