Teams & Riders Vincenzo Nibali discussion thread

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

I agree with SeriousSam. Nibali should ride what he wants to ride to get the best out of his ability. He has ridden more competitive Giri and Vueltas than Lance or Schleck ever did, so I don't think that is a fair comparison by any stretch of the imagination (edit The Hitch beat me to this point). By CQ, his final year placings since 2010 have been 1, 13, 7, 1, 3. I don't see a trend to hyper-focused specialization. If so, it seems to be a sport-wide phenomenon where fewer of the GT GC riders are lighting it up in the classics. (Except for Valverde of course)

I see an issue here.
Many people are pointing to 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013 as proof Nibali doesn't just focus on the Tour.
But the problem many people have with Nibali, is that he has become a Tour-only rider in the last 2 seasons.
If he would have ridden like this for his entire career then we could just agree that he is pathetic like we did with Andy Schleck.
But Nibali's fans know he can do better than this. That's why it's so frustrating.

Not to me, I don't really care. But I feel like people are misrepresenting the opinion of those fans.

It's not up to the fans to plan Nibali's schedule. He has convincingly won his last two GTS. He does not need to change what he is doing cause it is working. Many riders only target one GT per year. Maybe in the future he will change. He also rides some of the classics as well that other GT riders don't race. Going into the Tour relatively fresh against Froome and Contador makes sense.

 

[SafeBet]

This was Nibbles second top10 in 31 days of racing (excluding TTTs and GCs). Can we all agree he had done nothing the whole season thus far? And what's the purpose of showing up at Classics if you don't have the shape to race and try to win them? Fans are not asking for 150km attacks everyday. They'd simply like him to try and win a couple more races here and there, like most other Tour contenders do and like he himself used to do until 2013. Of course some crazy attacks would be a plus but I understand his status has changed.

Yesterday's effort was brutal and amazing. And yet, sometimes, I had the feeling he was out there training. He did some monster pulls in the final 20km for no reason. He looked tactically inept at times and that's why he lost the stage while clearly being the strongest.

 

[Jagartrott]

Re:

He looked tactically inept at times and that's why he lost the stage while clearly being the strongest.

I don't agree.
His attack in the final kilometers was perfectly timed. Costa was just stronger. Valverde ended at 38 seconds!
He had to balance riding to distance the peloton with distancing Valverde enough for yellow and trying to win the stage. He managed the first two, and very nearly the last thing as well.

 

[IlGrillo]

Re: Re:

He looked tactically inept at times and that's why he lost the stage while clearly being the strongest.

I don't agree.
His attack in the final kilometers was perfectly timed. Costa was just stronger. Valverde ended at 38 seconds!
He had to balance riding to distance the peloton with distancing Valverde enough for yellow and trying to win the stage. He managed the first two, and very nearly the last thing as well.

I think he was talking about his earlier attack.

 

[Jagartrott]

It was a strange move, but he didn't lose the stage because of that. The other guys also had to work.

 

[hrotha]

Re: Re:

It's not up to the fans to plan Nibali's schedule.

Of course not. It is, however, up to the fans to decide whether they like it.

 

[SafeBet]

I'm talking about a series of pull he took between - 20 and - 5 to go. Check for instance when they drop Tony Martin. He pulls for 3km or something. If your goal is a stage win, as he said, that makes no sense at all.

 

[Bushman]

Re: Re:

I agree with SeriousSam. Nibali should ride what he wants to ride to get the best out of his ability. He has ridden more competitive Giri and Vueltas than Lance or Schleck ever did, so I don't think that is a fair comparison by any stretch of the imagination (edit The Hitch beat me to this point). By CQ, his final year placings since 2010 have been 1, 13, 7, 1, 3. I don't see a trend to hyper-focused specialization. If so, it seems to be a sport-wide phenomenon where fewer of the GT GC riders are lighting it up in the classics. (Except for Valverde of course)

I see an issue here.
Many people are pointing to 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013 as proof Nibali doesn't just focus on the Tour.
But the problem many people have with Nibali, is that he has become a Tour-only rider in the last 2 seasons.
If he would have ridden like this for his entire career then we could just agree that he is pathetic like we did with Andy Schleck.
But Nibali's fans know he can do better than this. That's why it's so frustrating.

Not to me, I don't really care. But I feel like people are misrepresenting the opinion of those fans.

It's not up to the fans to plan Nibali's schedule. He has convincingly won his last two GTS. He does not need to change what he is doing cause it is working. Many riders only target one GT per year. Maybe in the future he will change. He also rides some of the classics as well that other GT riders don't race. Going into the Tour relatively fresh against Froome and Contador makes sense.

So people can't complain about it because he is successful? Whether Nibali is successful or not in the Tour has nothing to do with the fact that he, in the past two seasons, has turned into a boring "Tour only" rider. And that is a shame because he used to be a rider who would go for the win in the spring, summer and autumn, but now his entire season is based around ONE race. That's a waste of talent.

 

[cineteq]

Re:

Yesterday's effort was brutal and amazing. And yet, sometimes, I had the feeling he was out there training. He did some monster pulls in the final 20km for no reason. He looked tactically inept at times and that's why he lost the stage while clearly being the strongest.

Pure BS. He lost to a fresher rider who was able to stay with him. Give credit to Costa too. Tactically, Nibali was perfet.

 

[SafeBet]

Re: Re:

Yesterday's effort was brutal and amazing. And yet, sometimes, I had the feeling he was out there training. He did some monster pulls in the final 20km for no reason. He looked tactically inept at times and that's why he lost the stage while clearly being the strongest.

Pure BS. He lost to a fresher rider who was able to stay with him. Give credit to Costa too. Tactically, Nibali was perfet.

Why was he fresher?

 

[cineteq]

Re: Re:

Yesterday's effort was brutal and amazing. And yet, sometimes, I had the feeling he was out there training. He did some monster pulls in the final 20km for no reason. He looked tactically inept at times and that's why he lost the stage while clearly being the strongest.

Pure BS. He lost to a fresher rider who was able to stay with him. Give credit to Costa too. Tactically, Nibali was perfet.

Why was he fresher?

Sorry it should have been "fresher". Costa didn't do monster pulls in the final 20km, right?

 

[SafeBet]

Costa was doing some standard pulls every now and then, as Valverde and Gallopin.
Which is absolutely fine, considering Nibbles did most of the work and never even asked for help.

 

[del1962]

Very dissapointing today

 

[ray j willings]

Re:

This was Nibbles second top10 in 31 days of racing (excluding TTTs and GCs). Can we all agree he had done nothing the whole season thus far? And what's the purpose of showing up at Classics if you don't have the shape to race and try to win them? Fans are not asking for 150km attacks everyday. They'd simply like him to try and win a couple more races here and there, like most other Tour contenders do and like he himself used to do until 2013. Of course some crazy attacks would be a plus but I understand his status has changed.

Yesterday's effort was brutal and amazing. And yet, sometimes, I had the feeling he was out there training. He did some monster pulls in the final 20km for no reason. He looked tactically inept at times and that's why he lost the stage while clearly being the strongest.

Your spot on ,he's training. When he sits up ,,,job done

 

[Pippo_San]

Still the best GT rider even while training. Haters gonna hate.

 

[Jspear]

Re:

Still the best GT rider even while training. Haters gonna hate.

I'm confused by what you mean here. Do you mean he is still the best right now? What does it mean to be the best? If you've done well in the past does that make you the best and then you don't have to do anything to prove it after that? I agree that when he hits peak form he is one of the best, but right now while training and getting ready, he's not the best.

 

[Netserk]

Today goes to show that yesterday wasn't about GC, but stage win/training.

 

[arvc40]

Re:

Still the best GT rider even while training. Haters gonna hate.

Yeah! He is the best !. Maybe the best ever !.

 

[Flamin]

Nibali said he's in a similar kind of shape now compared to last year's Dauphiné. On Pra-Loup he simply didn't have good feelings (also suffering a bit from allergies) so he decided not to push things when he realized he wouldn't be able to achieve a good result. The next day he obviously felt great, comfortable in the rain as he is, but he rode in a strange way if his goal only/mainly was a stage win. Yesterday he simply paid for these efforts. Tried to limit his losses on Amerands with the help of his team mates and maybe come back in the descent, but when that didn't work and yellow jersey was gone, the final climb was training.

So things are looking good for him. Hopefully it rains again on the cobbled stage.

 

[DBotero]

Re:

Still the best GT rider even while training. Haters gonna hate.

I don't hate him,but i suppose the other guys are using this as a training ride too,just saying

 

[Mozart92]

Some people tend to forget that not all rider can be on top form for many consecutive months (see Valverde). Nibali is probably one of those riders who prefer to focus on few objectives.

Andy Schelck did the same in the past (with the exception of his LBL 2009 win).

 

[del1962]

Nibali working for Froome

 

[huge]

What a pull he did! Not sure why though. Did he really think Scarponi could win the stage?! Honestly I don't get the reason. Maybe just part of his training plan for the day. 5 minutes full gas.

Epic face from Valverde when he was caught. LOL

 

[Inquitus]

Re:

Nibali working for Froome

He really drove it on the early slopes, evidentally doing a better job for Froome than Roche could (given he dropped Roche), blew the race apart as well, and more than likely helped contribute to Froome taking the overall, Valverde's face was well worth the entrance fee mind!

 

[bassano]

Re:

What a pull he did! Not sure why though. Did he really think Scarponi could win the stage?! Honestly I don't get the reason. Maybe just part of his training plan for the day. 5 minutes full gas.

Epic face from Valverde when he was caught. LOL

Valverde looked how everyone else looks like
And Nibali trained for some TT in 5% climb or I do not know what he tried but no reason related to Dauphine crossed my mind