Teams & Riders Vincenzo Nibali discussion thread

[Brullnux]

Re: Re:

No, now Nibali have been the strongest rider in this years giro and this has nothing to do with luck, has nothing to do with that a stronger rider crash out and Nibali takes advantage,

Amazing how much luck this guy needs to be able to win GT's

You need the basic skill of controlling your bike to win a bike race..

There we go again with the bike skills to win a GT.

I'd be worried if I was Chaves right now.

It's kind of true though isn't it? Bike handling is as or more important than climbing and TTing in cycling and in a GT. Kruijswijk, while very strong, is a poor descender. A big crash in a GT was not as much of an 'if' but a 'when'. Like Froome in 2014. Contador had a lapse in concentration in the 2014 Tour, and crashed. Contador goes to normally have those, but it happens. I don't think it's luck as much as forcing these errors. Here Kruijswijk felt he had to follow Nibali, but descended at a pace which was too high for him. In 2014 this wasn't the case, but rather cyclist errors.

 

[Kokoso]

Re: Re:

Slongo, the artist.

I'm sure he engineered Kruijswijks fall.

Stop the nonsense. Pure luck, again. I'm so tired of it.

He was terribly unlucky when the chain shattered under the incredible force of his pedal strokes

By the time his chain fell he was losing substantial amount of time already

 

[Kokoso]

Re: Re:

No, now Nibali have been the strongest rider in this years giro and this has nothing to do with luck, has nothing to do with that a stronger rider crash out and Nibali takes advantage,

Amazing how much luck this guy needs to be able to win GT's

It's about regularity over 3 weeks.

Seriously? You say about regularity regarding guy who was losing time every MTF except this one?

 

[Carols]

I've suffered mostly in silence for 18 stages. Form is temporary Class remains. NIBALI Rocks, He is a Campionissimo!!! Win this race Vince! If not you have already redeemed yourself

 

[Kokoso]

Re: Re:

No, now Nibali have been the strongest rider in this years giro and this has nothing to do with luck, has nothing to do with that a stronger rider crash out and Nibali takes advantage,

Amazing how much luck this guy needs to be able to win GT's

You need the basic skill of controlling your bike to win a bike race..

Tell that to Dan Martin. Wait, what? He won Lombardia and LBL? There you go...

 

[Valv.Piti]

Even greater redemption than on La Toussuire. He should have it now!

 

[Kokoso]

So much people willling to lie yourselves here. But what hilariuos sh** one can read here, like "form is temporary class remains", or "or worm is temporary glass remains", I don't know. So you don't need a form to win GT, just class, huh? Of course. And what is this, the class?

Nevermind, Chaves is leading this race at the moment, not Nibali.

 

[SeriousSam]

But the diminutive Colombian struggled today and tomorrow brings deeper waters yet for the shark to end him

 

[DFA123]

Re:

So much people willling to lie yourselves here. But what hilariuos sh** one can read here, like "form is temporary class remains", or "or worm is temporary glass remains", I don't know. So you don't need a form to win GT, just class, huh? Of course. And what is this, the class?

Nevermind, Chaves is leading this race at the moment, not Nibali.

Nibali is the kind of rider that can find a way to win even when his form hasn't been as high as it can be. He will risk blowing up and sacrificing everthing for the win - that's class - even more so when he can successfully pull it off.

Also, all this talk of Kruijswijk crashing. It was hardly a major spill, that single-handedly ended his chances of winning the race. Do you think Nibali, Contador, Froome or Quintana would have gone on to lose five minutes had they been caught up in the same incident?

 

[Hayabusa]

Re: Nibali discussion thread

Agree or disagree but I think that if he wins this giro it will make him a legend. Maybe not the kind of legend Hinault or Mercx is, because they were simply more successful, but this comeback would not be forgotten soon. I know it is only because of Kruijswijks crash and ofc I feel extremely sad for him, but it's Kruijswijks own fault, and of all the riders who didnt crash Nibali was by far the strongest.

And when we have the 200th giro and Cyborg Eshnar will make another giro route out of the most rememberable giro stages so far this stage also has a chance to be part of it.

I don't think you can be granted the title of legend for winning in this field personally.

Still it was a fantastic ride, showed a lot of heart and he has put himself in a good position to potentially win it, though I see Chaves hanging on.

 

[SeriousSam]

Without allies nearby, probably.

And the crash did single-handedly end his chances of winning the race.

 

[DFA123]

Re:

Without allies nearby, probably.

And the crash did single-handedly end his chances of winning the race.

Rubbish. He was 2 minutes behind Nibali and Chaves with about 8km to go. He just blew up big time. No way riders like Quintana or Contador would have lost three minutes in a few km like that - crash or no crash.

If he had the legs and experience he could have limited his losses much better today.

 

[lenric]

Re: Re:

So much people willling to lie yourselves here. But what hilariuos sh** one can read here, like "form is temporary class remains", or "or worm is temporary glass remains", I don't know. So you don't need a form to win GT, just class, huh? Of course. And what is this, the class?

Nevermind, Chaves is leading this race at the moment, not Nibali.

Nibali is the kind of rider that can find a way to win even when his form hasn't been as high as it can be. He will risk blowing up and sacrificing everthing for the win - that's class - even more so when he can successfully pull it off.

Also, all this talk of Kruijswijk crashing. It was hardly a major spill, that single-handedly ended his chances of winning the race. Do you think Nibali, Contador, Froome or Quintana would have gone on to lose five minutes had they been caught up in the same incident?

Until today everybody was burying Nibali, today everybody's idolizing him. Human nature at its best.
We don't know the extent of Krushweak's injuries, so no one can criticize him for losing 5 minutes after crashing so badly.

 

[Jspear]

Nice to see Nibbes take the win. I'm torn between wanting Nibbes to win and Chaves. I'll be happy with either. Kruijswijk would have been dropped regardless.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

So much people willling to lie yourselves here. But what hilariuos sh** one can read here, like "form is temporary class remains", or "or worm is temporary glass remains", I don't know. So you don't need a form to win GT, just class, huh? Of course. And what is this, the class?

Nevermind, Chaves is leading this race at the moment, not Nibali.

Nibali is the kind of rider that can find a way to win even when his form hasn't been as high as it can be. He will risk blowing up and sacrificing everthing for the win - that's class - even more so when he can successfully pull it off.

Also, all this talk of Kruijswijk crashing. It was hardly a major spill, that single-handedly ended his chances of winning the race. Do you think Nibali, Contador, Froome or Quintana would have gone on to lose five minutes had they been caught up in the same incident?

Until today everybody was burying Nibali, today everybody's idolizing him. Human nature at its best.
We don't know the extent of Krushweak's injuries, so no one can criticize him for losing 5 minutes after crashing so badly.

Just people recognizing a sensational comeback and performance. The kind which very, very few riders are capable of. And certainly not everyone was burying him; most were counting on him to start the action and make the race today - which he certainly did.

Re. Kruijswijk - of course he can be criticized. He was well enough to ride, but put too much energy in chasing on the false flat, and blew up big time on the climb - lack of experience. A massive pile of snow broke his fall, so I doubt he's got anything more than a few cuts and bruises.

 

[JackRabbitSlims]

SK still took quite a heavy fall (just watching the replays now).....how much damage to his descending confidence needs to be a consideration...
also....plus a very sore body for the next stage and the emotional carnage!!

Amazing stage and result for Nibali.....I love this guy and have done for years....after the week he has had in the Giro....to come back and lay down a stage win like that and be back in the hunt for overall GC - pure class!

 

[lenric]

Re: Re:

So much people willling to lie yourselves here. But what hilariuos sh** one can read here, like "form is temporary class remains", or "or worm is temporary glass remains", I don't know. So you don't need a form to win GT, just class, huh? Of course. And what is this, the class?

Nevermind, Chaves is leading this race at the moment, not Nibali.

Nibali is the kind of rider that can find a way to win even when his form hasn't been as high as it can be. He will risk blowing up and sacrificing everthing for the win - that's class - even more so when he can successfully pull it off.

Also, all this talk of Kruijswijk crashing. It was hardly a major spill, that single-handedly ended his chances of winning the race. Do you think Nibali, Contador, Froome or Quintana would have gone on to lose five minutes had they been caught up in the same incident?

Until today everybody was burying Nibali, today everybody's idolizing him. Human nature at its best.
We don't know the extent of Krushweak's injuries, so no one can criticize him for losing 5 minutes after crashing so badly.

Just people recognizing a sensational comeback and performance. The kind which very, very few riders are capable of. And certainly not everyone was burying him; most were counting on him to start the action and make the race today - which he certainly did.

Re. Kruijswijk - of course he can be criticized. He was well enough to ride, but put too much energy in chasing on the false flat, and blew up big time on the climb - lack of experience. A massive pile of snow broke his fall, so I doubt he's got anything more than a few cuts and bruises.

Not everyone was burying him? 3 or 4 threads here talking about him being weak, declining, who's the 4th GT rider and whatever. The majority of the guys who wrote about the subject considered the possibility of him being declining, or having screwed with his preparation or whatever, now everybody's idolizing the guy.

I'm not criticizing Nibali, he did good today, but he had that obligation, since he's by far the best rider over there and that's why he didn't redeem himself, because he was pure *** until today and that can't be erased by 30 kms.
Not to mention the fact that Nibali has a superb team, especially comparing to Lotto.

About Krushweak, you saw snow where? It was mainly ice, that's why he crashed his guts out.
It wasn't only snow, but mainly a massive amount of ice, that's why he crashed his guts out.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

So much people willling to lie yourselves here. But what hilariuos sh** one can read here, like "form is temporary class remains", or "or worm is temporary glass remains", I don't know. So you don't need a form to win GT, just class, huh? Of course. And what is this, the class?

Nevermind, Chaves is leading this race at the moment, not Nibali.

Nibali is the kind of rider that can find a way to win even when his form hasn't been as high as it can be. He will risk blowing up and sacrificing everthing for the win - that's class - even more so when he can successfully pull it off.

Also, all this talk of Kruijswijk crashing. It was hardly a major spill, that single-handedly ended his chances of winning the race. Do you think Nibali, Contador, Froome or Quintana would have gone on to lose five minutes had they been caught up in the same incident?

Until today everybody was burying Nibali, today everybody's idolizing him. Human nature at its best.
We don't know the extent of Krushweak's injuries, so no one can criticize him for losing 5 minutes after crashing so badly.

Just people recognizing a sensational comeback and performance. The kind which very, very few riders are capable of. And certainly not everyone was burying him; most were counting on him to start the action and make the race today - which he certainly did.

Re. Kruijswijk - of course he can be criticized. He was well enough to ride, but put too much energy in chasing on the false flat, and blew up big time on the climb - lack of experience. A massive pile of snow broke his fall, so I doubt he's got anything more than a few cuts and bruises.

Not everyone was burying him? 3 or 4 threads here talking about him being weak, declining, who's the 4th GT rider and whatever. The majority of the guys who wrote about the subject considered the possibility of him being declining, or having screwed with his preparation or whatever, now everybody's idolizing the guy.

I'm not criticizing Nibali, he did good today, but he had that obligation, since he's by far the best rider over there and that's why he didn't redeem himself, because he was pure **** until today and that can't be erased by 30 kms.
Not to mention the fact that Nibali has a superb team, especially comparing to Lotto.

About Krushweak, you saw snow where? It was mainly ice, that's why he crashed his guts out.
It wasn't only snow, but mainly a massive amount of ice, that's why he crashed his guts out.

No, it's definitely just banked up snow. I climbed the Bonette a few days ago and it was the same at the very top there; they just banked it up when they cleared the road. A great place to crash all things considered - compare to poor old Zakarin's a bit further down the climb.

I think you also may be falling for the classic error when reading a forum. Just because the consensus may say Nibali is rubbish one day and great the next, doesn't mean that the individual posters have said both things. Nibali fans have probably been pretty quiet this Giro until now.

 

[SeriousSam]

Re: Re:

Without allies nearby, probably.

And the crash did single-handedly end his chances of winning the race.

Rubbish. He was 2 minutes behind Nibali and Chaves with about 8km to go. He just blew up big time. No way riders like Quintana or Contador would have lost three minutes in a few km like that - crash or no crash.

If he had the legs and experience he could have limited his losses much better today.

Had the crash not happened, he wouldn't have blown up big time.

You seem certain of this, but I don't recall any instance in which either rider displayed great composure in similar circumstances, because they haven't, to my knowledge, been in such a situation. So unless you can point to something concrete here, the notion that Quintana or Contador would have fared much better after the crash seems to be an article of faith.

 

[Carols]

To many messages quoted so I couldn't 'reply'

"I think you also may be falling for the classic error when reading a forum. Just because the consensus may say Nibali is rubbish one day and great the next, doesn't mean that the individual posters have said both things. Nibali fans have probably been pretty quiet this Giro until now."

Exactly...I have suffered mostly in silence. My mother taught me if you can't say anything nice just stay silent. Many haven't leaned that lesson yet .

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Without allies nearby, probably.

And the crash did single-handedly end his chances of winning the race.

Rubbish. He was 2 minutes behind Nibali and Chaves with about 8km to go. He just blew up big time. No way riders like Quintana or Contador would have lost three minutes in a few km like that - crash or no crash.

If he had the legs and experience he could have limited his losses much better today.

Had the crash not happened, he wouldn't have blown up big time.

You seem certain of this, but I don't recall any instance in which either rider displayed great composure in similar circumstances, because they haven't, to my knowledge, been in such a situation. So unless you can point to something concrete here, the notion that Quintana or Contador would have fared much better after the crash seems to be an article of faith.

Well obviously neither have been in exactly the same situation - because that would be ludicrous. Contador, though was dropped badly on Finestre last season, but rode sensibly and within himself to limit his losses and win overall.

Kruijswijk didn't lose the Maglia Rosa in the crash, he lost it in the last 8km - where he gave up three minutes to Nibali and 2 minutes to Chaves. He bottled it on the descent, panicked and tried to chase back on the false flat and blew up on the last climb.

The crash may have been the catalyst, but it was his reaction to it which really cost him the race lead.

 

[Maaaaaaaarten]

Re: Re:

Well obviously neither have been in exactly the same situation - because that would be ludicrous. Contador, though was dropped badly on Finestre last season, but rode sensibly and within himself to limit his losses and win overall.

Kruijswijk didn't lose the Maglia Rosa in the crash, he lost it in the last 8km - where he gave up three minutes to Nibali and 2 minutes to Chaves. He bottled it on the descent, panicked and tried to chase back on the false flat and blew up on the last climb.

The crash may have been the catalyst, but it was his reaction to it which really cost him the race lead.

If he didn't ride hard spending energy in the flat, he would've lost his jersey on the flat already and now he rode hard, he lost it on the mountain. When you've just crashed and you've got like 35(?)km of easy descent and flat to go with almost no help, whilst your rivals all have teammates to ride for them, you're going to lose minutes whatever you do.

 

[jmdirt]

Re: Re:

So much people willling to lie yourselves here. But what hilariuos sh** one can read here, like "form is temporary class remains", or "or worm is temporary glass remains", I don't know. So you don't need a form to win GT, just class, huh? Of course. And what is this, the class?

Nevermind, Chaves is leading this race at the moment, not Nibali.

Nibali is the kind of rider that can find a way to win even when his form hasn't been as high as it can be. He will risk blowing up and sacrificing everthing for the win - that's class - even more so when he can successfully pull it off.

Also, all this talk of Kruijswijk crashing. It was hardly a major spill, that single-handedly ended his chances of winning the race. Do you think Nibali, Contador, Froome or Quintana would have gone on to lose five minutes had they been caught up in the same incident?

Until today everybody was burying Nibali, today everybody's idolizing him. Human nature at its best.
We don't know the extent of Krushweak's injuries, so no one can criticize him for losing 5 minutes after crashing so badly.

Just people recognizing a sensational comeback and performance. The kind which very, very few riders are capable of. And certainly not everyone was burying him; most were counting on him to start the action and make the race today - which he certainly did.

Re. Kruijswijk - of course he can be criticized. He was well enough to ride, but put too much energy in chasing on the false flat, and blew up big time on the climb - lack of experience. A massive pile of snow broke his fall, so I doubt he's got anything more than a few cuts and bruises.

Two things: when the snow is machine banked, its not soft, and his back hit the ground hard when he flung out of the snow bank.
See embedded video:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/kruijswijk-falls-on-descent-from-cima-coppi-in-giro-ditalia/

 

[lenric]

Re: Re:

No, it's definitely just banked up snow. I climbed the Bonette a few days ago and it was the same at the very top there; they just banked it up when they cleared the road. A great place to crash all things considered - compare to poor old Zakarin's a bit further down the climb.

I think you also may be falling for the classic error when reading a forum. Just because the consensus may say Nibali is rubbish one day and great the next, doesn't mean that the individual posters have said both things. Nibali fans have probably been pretty quiet this Giro until now.

Either way, he crashed his back on the ground badly. That already happened to me and I had pain for days. His cuts on the arm and leg aren't that bad, but his back pain that's the most worrying consequence of the crash and the reason why he couldn't do anything more.

Maybe I'm falling for that mistake, or maybe you're falling for the error of talking about things you haven't read, only mildly accompanied through the last days.
And in at least 3/4 threads in this forum (barring the clinic) the majority of the posters were considering the fact that Nibali was possibly declining. It's up to you to conclude whatever you want, but that doesn't change the reality, that is s********s of posts about Nibali's decline, such as Contador's decline in 2013.

 

[Rollthedice]

Unfortunately couldn't watch, work. Lo Squalo, legend!
Did a workshop with a Dutch fellow during the stage, a cycling fan, I broke him the news after the stage. He is drinking beers now, on me. Still in shock.