Teams & Riders Vincenzo Nibali discussion thread

[cineteq]

Its 6 GTs, and all I am saying is that people need to stop trolling and trying to bait here. Its ridiculous. Go to Contadors or Froomes thread to debate whether they can stay on the bike and win at least 1 more TdF in their career

Strange some people still don't know how to count.

How can you be so certain? It's as if you consider his rivals a bunch of hacks. Or am I missing the joke here?

Hey buddy, you're not missing anything. He would've won regardless last year. You guys need start dealing with this...the sooner the better.

 

[Red Rick]

You may wanna ask Flo to post the 8 pictures again. people here are usually referring to the guy standing on top of the podium at the end of a GT. there's no denying that. The argument was about ability, not about palmares.

If Nibali had been stripped of titles I wouldn't discount them either.

 

[cineteq]

If Nibali had been stripped of titles I wouldn't discount them either.

If Nibali is stripped of titles, they won't count. it's as simple as that, right Lance?

 

[LaFlorecita]

You may wanna ask Flo to post the 8 pictures again. people here are usually referring to the guy standing on top of the podium at the end of a GT. there's no denying that. The argument was about ability, not about palmares.

If Nibali had been stripped of titles I wouldn't discount them either.

I'm afraid that would be off topic but I might have to

 

[Red Rick]

Lemme rephrase.

Who is a better GT rider?

Lance Armstrong won 7 Tours, lost 7 Tours due to doping scandal, douchyness, yadayadayada

Wim Vansevenant, never won a GT in the first place, got last in a few.

 

[cineteq]

So Contador, in his latest interview with Le Equipe, has decided to add fuel to the fire:

Contador: "Froome will be my most dangerous Tour de France rival". "I think that Quintana and Nibali are a level below"

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/contador-froome-will-be-my-most-dangerous-tour-de-france-rival

BRING IT ON

 

[Dedelou]

So Contador, in his latest interview with Le Equipe, has decided to add fuel to the fire:

Contador: "Froome will be my most dangerous Tour de France rival". "I think that Quintana and Nibali are a level below"

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/contador-froome-will-be-my-most-dangerous-tour-de-france-rival

BRING IT ON

well based on past performance , of course, Alberto is acurate.. Froome is a dangerous competitor

 

[cineteq]

well based on past performance , of course, Alberto is acurate.. Froome is a dangerous competitor

Based on recent past performance Quintana and Nibali did better. They both won a GT. Try again.

 

[LaFlorecita]

well based on past performance , of course, Alberto is acurate.. Froome is a dangerous competitor

Berto tells it as it is

 

[Dr. Juice]

Based on recent past performance Quintana and Nibali did better. They both won a GT. Try again.

Following your logic...Aitor Gonzales would have been the better climber or rider in 2003 (before Heras won the Vuelta again)
Following your logic...Tonkov and Gotti would've been the better climbers or riders compared to Pantani in 1998 (before the Giro)

It just doesn't make any sense what you state.

Recent success =! overall or recent /current strenght

You just twist it to have it the way you like.

 

[Red Rick]

Based on recent past performance Quintana and Nibali did better. They both won a GT. Try again.

Did Quintana or crush Contador for an entire season in 2014. I know its 2015, but 2013 still happened.

As for Nibali, at first it seemed like Kreuziger was more talented, he was the younger rider and certainly rode better up untill 2008. Then I remember the whole Gesink vs Nibali debate, I remember that Gesink seemed to be the better climber but Nibali was much more versatile and less fragile.

The Vuelta in 2010 was a fluke win, that doesn't mean he wasn't gonna improve. He has improved every year but still he never defeated the other great GT winners to win one.

 

[cineteq]

Did Quintana or crush Contador for an entire season in 2014. I know its 2015, but 2013 still happened.

As for Nibali, at first it seemed like Kreuziger was more talented, he was the younger rider and certainly rode better up untill 2008. Then I remember the whole Gesink vs Nibali debate, I remember that Gesink seemed to be the better climber but Nibali was much more versatile and less fragile.

The Vuelta in 2010 was a fluke win, that doesn't mean he wasn't gonna improve. He has improved every year but still he never defeated the other great GT winners to win one.

I guess you meant this => Did Quintana or Nibali crush Contador for an entire season in 2014? My answer: Did Contador crush Nibali or Quintana for an entire season in 2014? Both answers are No. They cancel out. My arguement is based, as it should, in last year's performance, and it's based on facts. They each won a GT, not Froome. And I'm not factoring in La Vuelta, which is the least important of all GTs.

 

[Jspear]

I guess you meant this => Did Quintana or Nibali crush Contador for an entire season in 2014? My answer: Did Contador crush Nibali or Quintana for an entire season in 2014? Both answers are No. They cancel out. My arguement is based, as it should, in last year's performance, and it's based on facts. They each won a GT, not Froome. And I'm not factoring in La Vuelta, which is the least important of all GTs.

Your picking and choosing from here and there is very subjective....concerning the article it is simply the truth and there is nothing to argue about: Froome has been WAY more of a challenger to AC than Nibali has.

 

[Dr. Juice]

I guess you meant this => Did Quintana or Nibali crush Contador for an entire season in 2014? My answer: Did Contador crush Nibali or Quintana for an entire season in 2014? Both answers are No. They cancel out. My arguement is based, as it should, in last year's performance, and it's based on facts. They each won a GT, not Froome. And I'm not factoring in La Vuelta, which is the least important of all GTs.

It's very simple:

You believe that the current Nibali and the current Contador are climbing equal + are equal in TT's .
I and many others believe that Contador is stronger and can gain 3-4 minutes on Nibali in the mountains (not the 6 minutes like in 2011) + marginal advantage for Contador in a TT. There is nothing to do.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Your picking and choosing from here and there is very subjective....concerning the article it is simply the truth and there is nothing to argue about: Froome has been WAY more of a challenger to AC than Nibali has.

Are you saying cineteq is not objective? Are you crazy?

 

[Red Rick]

I guess you meant this => Did Quintana or Nibali crush Contador for an entire season in 2014? My answer: Did Contador crush Nibali or Quintana for an entire season in 2014? Both answers are No. They cancel out. My arguement is based, as it should, in last year's performance, and it's based on facts. They each won a GT, not Froome. And I'm not factoring in La Vuelta, which is the least important of all GTs.

Contador beat Nibali and Quintana in every race they finished, which is TA, VC and DL.

And I'm not factoring in La Vuelta, which is the least important of all GTs.

And I'm not factoring in La Vuelta, which is the least important of all GTs.

And I'm not factoring in La Vuelta, which is the least important of all GTs.

Yeah, no

 

[cineteq]

Contador beat Nibali and Quintana in every race they finished, which is TA, VC and DL.

You mean every non GT race they entered? I give you that. It's not all 2014 though...

Second, the discussion is about Contador's using Froome as a way of trash talking. Don't lose your bearings bro.

 

[Jspear]

You mean every non GT race they entered? I give you that. It's not all 2014 though...

Second, the discussion is about Contador's using Froome as a way of trash talking. Don't lose your bearings bro.

Why don't you try and engage with what AC actually said. Give examples of Nibali giving AC as hard of a time as Froome has....the one I can think of right now was 2013 Tirreno...besides that Froome has always been tougher competition for AC. FACT. Oh and wait..2013 Tirreno won't count in your opinion because it isn't a GT, correct?

 

[pigoonse]

Why don't you try and engage with what AC actually said. Give examples of Nibali giving AC as hard of a time as Froome has....the one I can think of right now was 2013 Tirreno...besides that Froome has always been tougher competition for AC. FACT. Oh and wait..2013 Tirreno won't count in your opinion because it isn't a GT, correct?

let's try some stats, Jspear.

(what alberto says to the press, well, there may be some truth in it but it is also mixed with politics, no?)

http://www.procyclingstats.com/rider.php?c=7&id=140869&CompareToId=137456

Contador vs Froome above: apart from 2013, there are 6 times that Froome beat Contador. Looking at the numbers, other than 2013, there is no reason for AC to fear Froome. 14 of 20 times they met and Froome beat Contador it was 2013 - Contador's worst year/ worst shape.

Since this is the Nibali thread please allow me to include h2h of Contador/Nibali

http://www.procyclingstats.com/rider.php?c=7&id=140869&CompareToId=137456

More impressive from Nibali vs Contador than Froome vs Contador but i have to allow that memories will think of 2013 Froome and pre-2013 Nibali. So, I can understand some bias toward Froome, but I don't agree. At the very least, it is not enough information to say with conviction, really.

 

[Miburo]

Based on recent past performance Quintana and Nibali did better. They both won a GT. Try again.

No no we can't use that logic, now can we?

Nibali won the tour cause contador and froome crashed out but we can't use that argument, we're just looking for excuses right?

Quintana crashed out in vuelta, but don't matter right? Froome performed better than quintana in the vuelta, so he's more dangerous isn't he?

Unless of course you rate the giro extremely high because of the amazing competition that quintana's performance in the vuelta is irrelevant? What now?

 

[Jspear]

let's try some stats, Jspear.

(what alberto says to the press, well, there may be some truth in it but it is also mixed with politics, no?)

http://www.procyclingstats.com/rider.php?c=7&id=140869&CompareToId=137456

Contador vs Froome above: apart from 2013, there are 6 times that Froome beat Contador. Looking at the numbers, other than 2013, there is no reason for AC to fear Froome. 14 of 20 times they met and Froome beat Contador it was 2013 - Contador's worst year/ worst shape.

Since this is the Nibali thread please allow me to include h2h of Contador/Nibali

http://www.procyclingstats.com/rider.php?c=7&id=140869&CompareToId=137456

More impressive from Nibali vs Contador than Froome vs Contador but i have to allow that memories will think of 2013 Froome and pre-2013 Nibali. So, I can understand some bias toward Froome, but I don't agree. At the very least, it is not enough information to say with conviction, really.

Let's look at some stats...
According to procyclingstats.com:
Here is where Nibbes has beaten AC:


1 Vs. 3
Tirreno-Adriatico (2013) General Classification
1 Vs. 13
Tour de France (2014) Stage 2
2 Vs. 7
Tirreno-Adriatico (2013) Stage 6
3 Vs. 6
Tirreno-Adriatico (2013) Stage 4


and here is where Froome has beaten AC:


Tour de France (2013) General Classification
1 Vs. 4
Tirreno-Adriatico (2013) General Classification
2 Vs. 3
Tour of Oman (2013) General Classification
1 Vs. 2
Tour de France (2013) Time Trial
1 Vs. 2
Critérium du Dauphiné (2013) General Classificat...
1 Vs. 10
Critérium du Dauphiné (2014) Time Trial
1 Vs. 2
Vuelta a España (2014) Stage 6
2 Vs. 3
Critérium du Dauphiné (2013) Stage 5
1 Vs. 2
Critérium du Dauphiné (2014) Stage 2
1 Vs. 2
Tour de France (2013) Stage 15
1 Vs. 6
Tour de France (2013) Stage 8
1 Vs. 8
Vuelta a Espana (2012) Stage 6
2 Vs. 4
Vuelta a Espana (2012) Stage 3
3 Vs. 4
Tour of Oman (2013) Stage 5
1 Vs. 2
Vuelta a España (2014) Stage 18
2 Vs. 5
Tour de France (2013) Stage 20
3 Vs. 7
Tirreno-Adriatico (2013) Stage 4
1 Vs. 6
Tour de France (2013) Time Trial
2 Vs. 15
Tour of Oman (2013) Stage 4
2 Vs. 4
Tour de France (2013) Stage 18
7 Vs. 11


You can decide which is more impressive...who has given AC the most trouble...for anyone who might have trouble interpreting these stats...Froome has given AC more trouble.

 

[Jspear]

Another stat that shows Froome is harder competition than Nibbes.
Again from procyclingstats:

Here is where Nibbes has beaten Froome


1 Vs. 2
Tirreno-Adriatico (2013) General Classification
7 Vs. 12
Critérium du Dauphiné (2014) General Classificat...
5 Vs. 7
Tour de France (2012) Stage 8


and here is where Froome has beaten Nibbes


Tour de France (2012) General Classification
2 Vs. 3
Vuelta a Espana (2011) General Classification
2 Vs. 7
Tour de Romandie (2014) General Classification
1 Vs. 5
Tour of Oman (2013) General Classification
1 Vs. 7
Tour de France (2012) Stage 7
1 Vs. 4
Tour of Oman (2014) General Classification
1 Vs. 12
Tour de France (2012) Stage 11
3 Vs. 5
Tirreno-Adriatico (2013) Stage 4
1 Vs. 3
Tour de France (2012) Stage 17
2 Vs. 7
Critérium du Dauphiné (2012) General Classificat...
4 Vs. 28
Tour de France (2012) Time Trial
2 Vs. 8
Critérium du Dauphiné (2014) Stage 2
1 Vs. 6
Vuelta a Espana (2011) Stage 16
1 Vs. 15
Critérium du Dauphiné (2014) Time Trial
1 Vs. 8
Tour de France (2012) Time Trial
2 Vs. 16
Vuelta a Espana (2011) Stage 8
5 Vs. 6
Vuelta a Espana (2011) Time Trial
2 Vs. 15
Tour de Romandie (2014) Stage 3
2 Vs. 7
Tour de Romandie (2014) Time Trial
1 Vs. 18
Tour of Oman (2013) Stage 4
2 Vs. 5

I rest my case...

 

[LaFlorecita]

It's simple. If all 4 are on top form Alberto is most worried about Froome. I don't blame him, Froome is the only one who beat him several times, and Alberto still does not know for sure if he can beat a 100% Froome.

 

[pigoonse]

Let's look at some stats...
According to procyclingstats.com:



You can decide which is more impressive...who has given AC the most trouble...for anyone who might have trouble interpreting these stats...Froome has given AC more trouble.

As i said, Jspear. Exclude the year 2013 from AC/CF h2h and Froome has not given AC much trouble at all. Why do i exclude 2013? because AC was a complete dud that year. 2013, imo, is an exception, all other years of AC's career and AC would have spanked Froome.

Nibali has also been spanked by Contador. but i prefer Nibali's 41 % to 58.7% vs Froome's 33% to 67.1%.

again: people will think of Froom's impressive wins over Contador....but take out 2013 and it is not much at all. That is my point.

 

[pigoonse]

Another stat that shows Froome is harder competition than Nibbes.
Again from procyclingstats:

Here is where Nibbes has beaten Froome


1 Vs. 2
Tirreno-Adriatico (2013) General Classification
7 Vs. 12
Critérium du Dauphiné (2014) General Classificat...
5 Vs. 7
Tour de France (2012) Stage 8


and here is where Froome has beaten Nibbes


Tour de France (2012) General Classification
2 Vs. 3
Vuelta a Espana (2011) General Classification
2 Vs. 7
Tour de Romandie (2014) General Classification
1 Vs. 5
Tour of Oman (2013) General Classification
1 Vs. 7
Tour de France (2012) Stage 7
1 Vs. 4
Tour of Oman (2014) General Classification
1 Vs. 12
Tour de France (2012) Stage 11
3 Vs. 5
Tirreno-Adriatico (2013) Stage 4
1 Vs. 3
Tour de France (2012) Stage 17
2 Vs. 7
Critérium du Dauphiné (2012) General Classificat...
4 Vs. 28
Tour de France (2012) Time Trial
2 Vs. 8
Critérium du Dauphiné (2014) Stage 2
1 Vs. 6
Vuelta a Espana (2011) Stage 16
1 Vs. 15
Critérium du Dauphiné (2014) Time Trial
1 Vs. 8
Tour de France (2012) Time Trial
2 Vs. 16
Vuelta a Espana (2011) Stage 8
5 Vs. 6
Vuelta a Espana (2011) Time Trial
2 Vs. 15
Tour de Romandie (2014) Stage 3
2 Vs. 7
Tour de Romandie (2014) Time Trial
1 Vs. 18
Tour of Oman (2013) Stage 4
2 Vs. 5

I rest my case...

lol, your case is far from resting, my friend

Froome did not race vs Nibbles at the Giro 2013, Vuelta 2013, or ....and, Froome crashed out TdF 2014 due to too shaky in inclement conditions...

Case is not resting. jury is still out. peace be with you in 2015