Vincenzo Nibali

[Arnout]

Good article in Le Monde



http://mobile.lemonde.fr/tour-de-fr...tana-l-astre-noir-double_4462715_1616918.html

So they're taking issue with the fact that they can't wiretap

Lol. NSA ftw.

 

[bigcog]

Don't know, why don't you pull up both measurements and we can discuss?

Here you go:

"With 417 watts of average Italian is stronger than Christopher Froome had yet crushed the Tour in 2013 with its 412 watts."

http://translate.google.com/transla...umain-avec-ses-417-watts_4462718_1616918.html

 

[sniper]

So they're taking issue with the fact that they can't wiretap

Lol. NSA ftw.

"hey Alex, this is the French police speaking, can we place some wiretaps in your bus?"
"yeah sure, why not!"

 

[djpbaltimore]

Here you go:

"With 417 watts of average Italian is stronger than Christopher Froome had yet crushed the Tour in 2013 with its 412 watts."

http://translate.google.com/transla...umain-avec-ses-417-watts_4462718_1616918.html

Those are interesting numbers, but without a rough estimate on the uncertainty of the calculations, it is hard to say 5 watts is actually significant. And it appeared that the heat played a really big role at Chamrousse as everybody was much lower on that climb.

 

[bigcog]

Those are interesting numbers, but without a rough estimate on the uncertainty of the calculations, it is hard to say 5 watts is actually significant. And it appeared that the heat played a really big role at Chamrousse as everybody was much lower on that climb.

Are you saying the he's artificially "inflated" Nibali's numbers because of the heat so they are higher or that some of Nibali's numbers are lower than they would have been but for the heat ?

"it is hard to say 5 watts is actually significant." - my point was that Froome got hung drawn and quartered based on "analysis" like this, whereas as Nibali is seen as clean, what a joke.

 

[Escarabajo]

Ferrari's opinion:

http://www.53x12.com/do/show?page=indepth.view&id=148

Nibali 6.3 Watts/Kg in Hautacam.

 

[djpbaltimore]

Are you saying the he's artificially "inflated" Nibali's numbers because of the heat so they are higher or that some of Nibali's numbers are lower than they would have been but for the heat ?

"it is hard to say 5 watts is actually significant." - my point was that Froome got hung drawn and quartered based on "analysis" like this, whereas as Nibali is seen as clean, what a joke.

I mostly agree with your latter point. But, I actually was surprised to see his numbers so close to Froome.

As for the heat, those numbers are bringing down his aggregate figure, so the calculations might actually be an underestimate of his true wattage. However, I imagine most tours have one climb under poor conditions so it will tend to even out in the long run. Add the fact that Nibali seems to be toying with the field at times, his level might indeed have been higher than Froome if pressed. Interesting article.

 

[Rollthedice]

I mostly agree with your latter point. But, I actually was surprised to see his numbers so close to Froome.

As for the heat, those numbers are bringing down his aggregate figure, so the calculations might actually be an underestimate of his true wattage. However, I imagine most tours have one climb under poor conditions so it will tend to even out in the long run. Add the fact that Nibali seems to be toying with the field at times, his level might indeed have been higher than Froome if pressed. Interesting article.

More in depth take:

http://sportsscientists.com/2014/07/the-physiology-at-the-front-of-the-tour/

 

[meat puppet]

Check out the good dottore's post about dauphine as well. Some foresight from someone who is not officially in the know. Oh wait.

Reading ferrari's musings is insanely hilarious but still kinda fresh. Just cynical performance analysis. No arbitrary divisions between the dopers era riders such as lance basso ulrich and cleans riders from the supposed new generation. Comparing them apples to apples. Priceless.

 

[red_flanders]

Here you go:

"With 417 watts of average Italian is stronger than Christopher Froome had yet crushed the Tour in 2013 with its 412 watts."

http://translate.google.com/transla...umain-avec-ses-417-watts_4462718_1616918.html

Thanks. The measurements for Froome?

 

[red_flanders]

More in depth take:

http://sportsscientists.com/2014/07/the-physiology-at-the-front-of-the-tour/

That covers it well enough, thanks.

So to the question, do we only discuss when it applies to Froome, the answer is no. Looks like the power outputs are roughly the same. You're asking the question on a Nibali thread where it's actively being discussed. Seems like a weird question. There is also the climbing performance thread.

Here's the difference. I have not seen one single post by anyone claiming Nibali is clean.

That is all.

 

[sniper]

More in depth take:

http://sportsscientists.com/2014/07/the-physiology-at-the-front-of-the-tour/

good stuff.

What a shame that we were denied the opportunity to see Nibali challenged by Froome and also Contador, who did more than enough in the lead up to the race, and its first small climb, to suggest he was at the same level.

that cannot be stressed enough. the battle would have been legendary.

 

[bigcog]

That covers it well enough, thanks.

So to the question, do we only discuss when it applies to Froome, the answer is no. Looks like the power outputs are roughly the same. You're asking the question on a Nibali thread where it's actively being discussed. Seems like a weird question. There is also the climbing performance thread.

Here's the difference. I have not seen one single post by anyone claiming Nibali is clean.

That is all.

Yep, the reaction is just the same ... lol

 

[DirtyWorks]

Good article in Le Monde



http://mobile.lemonde.fr/tour-de-fr...tana-l-astre-noir-double_4462715_1616918.html

This is not all: Raquel Ortolano, the doctor Astana, was heard as a witness, in February 2013, the Criminal Court of Madrid, in the trial of the Operation Puerto: she officiated in effect in the ranks Liberty Seguros when protected Manolo Saiz consulted the good doctor Fuentes.

These people get around.

 

[fmk_RoI]

Astana was Liberty Seguros

 

[No_Balls]

Omerta-speech:

Nibali was asked by France Télévisions if his victory could be viewed as proof that it was possible to win clean. "I think so but not only because of my victory," he said. "In recent years there have been some nice, important and clean victories. Cycling has changed in recent years and we can be proud of it."

Wonder which these clean victories was? Froomes? Wiggins? Dude is a TDF-winner now.

 

[Tyler'sTwin]

A total of 730g of glycogen assume a supersaturation of muscle and liver deposits that is difficult to achieve for an athlete of 63kg, within the few hours between two stages of the TdF.
Hence the hypothesis that Nibali actually expressed an incredibly high LIPID POWER that has allowed him to consume less glycogen than calculated above.

http://www.53x12.com/do/show?page=indepth.view&id=147

An average power of 355W requires an expenditure of 1280 Kcal/h; therefore in those 115min of 4 KOM alone, the caloric request is 2450 Kcal.
Considering the expressed intensities, normally this energy demand could be met only by CHO: it would require about 612g.
If we imagine the rest of the stage, about 1h40', to be done at an average of 220 watts, it required approximately an additional 1400 kcal, of which at least 50% were provided by another 175g of CHO...

Almost 800g of CHO is an amount that far exceeds the maximum capacity of saturation of glycogen stores and therefore confirms the extraordinary ability of Nibali to use fat as fuel, saving the CHO for the final stage, where he made the difference over the rivals.

http://www.53x12.com/do/show?page=indepth.view&id=148

This is why AICAR and GW501516 improve endurance and recovery.

 

[D-Queued]

Ferrari's opinion:

http://www.53x12.com/do/show?page=indepth.view&id=148

Nibali 6.3 Watts/Kg in Hautacam.

Yup, this one is funny.

" ...never showing a decline in performance in the three-week race..."

Hmmm. That's odd and virtually impossible.

" ...Almost 800g of CHO is an amount that far exceeds the maximum capacity of saturation of glycogen stores and therefore confirms the extraordinary ability of Nibali to use fat as fuel, saving the CHO for the final stage, where he made the difference over the rivals.

On the ascent to Hautacam (13.6 km at 7.8%) Vincenzo rode alone "in the wind" for 11 km, climbing in 37'30", VAM = 1696 m/h = 6.28 w/kg = 395w."

Ah, some kind of a genetic freak and no Bilharzia to blame.

Ahem, if he was 'in the wind' is that some sort of Ferrari code that means his actual power output and w/kg were actually much higher???

Ok, I thought there was a chance that Nibali was actually clean. A chance.

But, I'll go with the good Dottore given his authority on the subject.

Nibali is officially laughable

Dave.

 

[D-Queued]

Astana was Liberty Seguros

Dirt ^ carpet.

Dave.

 

[yespatterns]

technically when using that many data points you'd drop the fastest and slowest. Just saying.

 

[doperhopper]

Nibs, srsly? (only explanation: different = worse)

"Doping was part of this world, we know that. And questions about it don’t bother me: I care about replying properly because it's important to do so," he said.

"I've nothing to hide. Wiggins, Froome, and I are the new faces of the recent history of the Tour de France. Cycling is different now and I think I've shown that."

 

[The Hitch]

good stuff.

What a shame that we were denied the opportunity to see Nibali challenged by Froome and also Contador, who did more than enough in the lead up to the race, and its first small climb, to suggest he was at the same level.

that cannot be stressed enough. the battle would have been legendary.

He forgot Andy

 

[del1962]

He forgot Andy

Andy who?

 

[MacRoadie]

Andy who?

He's home with his pony...

 

[thehook]

When Il Dottore speaks. I listen. The man has forgot more about the science behind our sport than most ever will know.