Vuelta a España - Stage 20 San Martín de Valdeiglesias - Bola del Mundo 172.1km

[Zinoviev Letter]

Yep. I have nothing personal against Nibali. But when I see a 25 year old young gun with many gt possibilities face a 34 year old for whom this was the last dance and whos biggest career win was a stage at the Vuelta of Burgos or whatever, i know which side i am on.

Exactly. There isn't much anti-Nibali sentiment. It's mostly pro-Mosquera (or just generally pro-underdog) sentiment.

 

[The Hitch]

Cycling is quite an environmentally friendly pass-time to promote (compared to F1 etc) ... if not on this particular mountain top.

when i see cycle races i feel otherwise. For every 10 seconds of peloton you see you get 2 minutes of cars behind them.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Don't the helicopters disturb the enviroment as well by the way?

 

[The Hitch]

I think the Vuelta has done well for itself. What it needs to slowly crawl up to the other 2 gts is to have the home population like it. Just like the Giro is the main event for Italian cycling , Vuelta needs to be this big in Spain. I like the crowds i saw. Today as well. Having a close race didnt hurt. Having the queen stage and finale on a saturday afternoon was wonderous as well.

Also, will the Giro see this and think, 2012, stage 20- Monte Zoncolan

 

[Kwibus]

Well, I have contradictory feelings about that, I think the area has enormous environmental values, with unique endangered animals such as http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Graellsiaisabelae.JPG, plus mountain goats, lots of different birds, rare amphibians etc...Not to talk about the area providing excellent water to 6 million people.

I like to see what we saw today though....Contradictory feelings

EDIT: not to create polemic with you at all, but probably some real enforcing of environmentally sound policies regarding protected areas would heve permitted Holland to have some well-preserved areas. From the wildlife point of view it is quite sad there...

Absolutely. I guess Arnout only wants to see concrete, bricks and tarmac.
It's not that much about the envoriment, but keeping some places safe from humans is a good idea.

 

[theyoungest]

So? Then we should have no animals and no clean water whatsoever in the Netherlands because we are overcrowded everywhere. Come on, I understand they don't want a casino on top of the mountain, but a bike race once a year, without cars going to the top, please. We as human beings might as well die because that's better for the animals on the planet.

Environmental talk is mostly bull****.

Could you be even more beside the point? Are you seriously suggesting human beings haven't destroyed enough of this planet as it is? Wow, don't listen to the skeptics too much, it's ruining your eyesight.

 

[ansimi]

Great stage! I was cheering on Mosquera but Nibali did more than hold on there and is a convincing champion.

 

[salixcycling]

Any signs of Farrar and Cavendish? the official site stops at #116, 26:07 back from Mosquera.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Could you be even more beside the point? Are you seriously suggesting human beings haven't destroyed enough of this planet as it is? Wow, don't listen to the skeptics too much, it's ruining your eyesight.

He's an Anton fan so he is still carrying some dissapointment from 1,5 weeks ago

 

[Mellow Velo]

With the difference this not being an opinion, but a fact, backed up by results => facts
Nibali has always done well on hills like that, it is no opinion, it is a fact, proven by results.

There is nothing to have an opinion on. It's not my opinion, just a fact. fact.
results >>> fact

Ok?

Is this Dekker Tifosi admitting he fact up?

Has to be said, Nibali comes out of the 2010 season as just about the most successful GT rider.
A season that could have gone pear shaped, with a Giro for Tour switch, has actually aided him to his first win.

 

[hfer07]

Exactly. There isn't much anti-Nibali sentiment. It's mostly pro-Mosquera (or just generally pro-underdog) sentiment.

I wouldn't call it that way--- Eze has won his support by attacking & being aggressive rider- always providing excitement, whereas Nibali has just ridden conservatively throughout the Vuelta-until today, when he stepped his game to prove himself as a worthy winner.

 

[The Hitch]

Already did. Didn't taste very well though.

And a slow reminder I was still right about F.Schleck only being able to climb as the best once a Tour, and Anton damnit.

Yeah you were right about Frank Schleck and Tommy Voeckler so well done there.

But have you ever heard the term "quit while your ahead" ? Did you do that?

Nope. Not only did you put on the line all your winnings you also took out a second mortage on your home, borrowed money from the mafia and put it all on the line that Nibali would fail.
Then when Anton crashed out, you went, robbed a bank, and while waiting for the police to find you, put all that money on the line as well.



Ironically quit while your ahead is what i should be doing right now having gotten everyone to agree you went way ottttttttt

But its worth it

Not my credibility anyway, i took it from Christopher Hitchens when i chose this name. He has vast stacks so no need to worry.

 

[Scirea]

disappointing stage.nothing epic here.happy for eze,he finally has a stage win.
hats off to nibali and velits.
vuelta again the smallest grand tour by far.

Agreed. Chalk it up as another disappointment.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Yeah you were right about Frank Schleck and Tommy Voeckler so well done there.

But have you ever heard the term "quit while your ahead" ? Did you do that?

Nope. Not only did you put on the line all your winnings you also took out a second mortage on your home, borrowed money from the mafia and put it all on the line that Nibali would fail.
Then when Anton crashed out, you went, robbed a bank, and while waiting for the police to find you, put all that money on the line as well.



Ironically quit while your ahead is what i should be doing right now having gotten everyone to agree you went way ottttttttt

But its worth it

Not my credibility anyway, i took it from Christopher Hitchens when i chose this name. He has vast stacks so no need to worry.

Yup, I'll stay quiet with predictions until one of them comes out at the END of a grand tour or classic the next time. And then put your nose, and your nose alone in it

 

[Scirea]

Any signs of Farrar and Cavendish? the official site stops at #116, 26:07 back from Mosquera.

They came in exactly 30:00 back

 

[theyoungest]

What the hell are you talking about?

Short explosive climbs, no matter how steep, if they are short enough they fit Nibali a helluva a lot more than Mosquera.
Matter-of-factly, Nibali has ALWAYS done good on those hills.

If I am wrong about Nibali, you're way more off if you claim that those hills don't suit him.

Well, I know he does the Tirreno for the exact same reason Gesink does: to improve his riding on those explosive hills, because he doesn't like them. But Gesink actually isn't half bad at them either, so it could be the same for Nibali.

 

[van nelle]

Great race by Vincenzo, Liqui managed it pretty well - I thought they would be put under more pressure, but hey nice one really!

Congratz to Peter great profesional performance for 3 weeks, good job!

And thanks to DT for animating the forum during Vuelta (Nibbs the champ ) and the rest of you guys - best place to follow the race.

 

[Francois the Postman]

So? Then we should have no animals and no clean water whatsoever in the Netherlands because we are overcrowded everywhere. Come on, I understand they don't want a casino on top of the mountain, but a bike race once a year, without cars going to the top, please. We as human beings might as well die because that's better for the animals on the planet.

Environmental talk is mostly bull****.

You couldn't get a clearer way to state that you want to see tarmac everywhere... oh, wait.

Yup, there is always a balance between human utilization and conservation to be struck everywhere.

Sending a slew of folk up this top will have considerable effect on the margins of a road that is there already. And if this was the birds breeding season, fair enough. But apart from the disturbance on the day, long-lasting effect will be minimal.

If that is a price worth paying is another discussion.

In a weird way it might actually help conservation of the area, simply by drawing attention to it. "What triggers suitable conservation" is one of the weirdest processes. If you've ever been involved in conservation you'll know what I'm talking about.

I do differ on your pov expressed so subtly in that last sentence, but can only conclude that some of those that took you to town on this post kinda prove the gist of your point, by stretching valid objections and opinions in certain cases to absurd caricatures.

And I take that teh state of Dutch wildlife is the official derailment of the Vuelta day then?

 

[khardung la]

disappointing stage.nothing epic here.happy for eze,he finally has a stage win.
hats off to nibali and velits.
vuelta again the smallest grand tour by far.

I don' t get your point. If the Vuelta is the last of the Gts you should have noticed it 2 weeks ago, just checking aspects such as which cyclists were going to participate, how important it was for guys like A.Schleck, Menchov or Cancellara.

If I understand your argument it is about how difficult are the stages?? If today's stage would have ended differently the "size" of the Vuelta would have changed??

If today Nibali would have had a historical vanishing and would have thrown up in the middle of the climb it would have made Vuelta better because something "epic" happened today?

Vuelta is the third biggest tour because it is not as popular as TdF in the whole World, or the Giro in Italy. It is not so old as those ones. In September it will always be a dessert (but hey, one has to be the last).

However this year it was way more exciting than the Tour, and the route offered as many nice possibilities for interesting moments as the tour. It is far from the Tour in prestige, but hey, it is not that far from the Giro. IMHO.

 

[dsut4392]

Cycling is quite an environmentally friendly pass-time to promote (compared to F1 etc) ... if not on this particular mountain top.

Cycling maybe, but cycle racing? With all the support cars, commissaires cars, TV motos and helicopters, team buses, promotional caravan (and all the rubbish they hand out), the finish line paraphernalia, the barricades (and the trucks that carry them to be set out in the morning, and collected in the evening)? The whole point of which is advertising, to make us consume?

Don't get me wrong, I find bike racing entertaining, but the suggestion that because it's not as bad as F1 it's "environmentally friendly" is a bit like saying being run over by a semi-trailer is really nice compared to being run over by an express train.

I think the problem referred to about the inappropriate development of the location has more to do with the ski resorts and roads being built there in the first place than a bike race being there one day of the year.

It's a shame to me that Europeans in general don't understand the concept, let alone value, of wilderness. I don't think the Puerto de Navacerrada/Bola del Mundo (yes, I have been there) remotely qualifies as wilderness (there is no true wilderness anywhere in western europe for that matter), but it is a relatively fragile alpine area and deserves some respect (which appeared to have been given). A 'cowboy' approach to events like this could well have seen enough damage in one short day that would take years to mend, and as a cycling fan I wouldn't want that done in my name.

 

[maltiv]

Moncoutie won the third mountain jersey in a row, great stuff. With only 51 points in total, which must be the lowest ever? Last year he had 186 points. Illustrates the fact that this years edition surely didn't have many real mountain stages.

 

[katkotom]

absolutely, great race by Peto and hopefully we get something to celebrate in WCH in Melbourne as well
btw. I see youre from Zilina as well

Our PPM trio will rip Melbourne into pieces! Zilina samozrejme

 

[roundabout]

Moncoutie won the third mountain jersey in a row, great stuff. With only 51 points in total, which must be the lowest ever? Last year he had 186 points. Illustrates the fact that this years edition surely didn't have many real mountain stages.

It's a different points system. The same as in the Giro.

But indeed, there was only one real mountain stage. That's a disgrace.

 

[icefire]

Moncoutie won the third mountain jersey in a row, great stuff. With only 51 points in total, which must be the lowest ever? Last year he had 186 points. Illustrates the fact that this years edition surely didn't have many real mountain stages.

Meh!, they've reduced significantly the number riders who get points and the number of points given.

 

[maltiv]

Meh!, they've reduced significantly the number riders who get points and the number of points given.

Oh ok, didn't notice but at least one of the best climbers won the jersey, unlike the giro/TDF winners of the KOM jerseys.