Vuelta a España Vuelta a España 2023, stage 18: Pola de Allande - La Cruz de Linares, 178.9k

[Red Lobster]

Yeah, and what will Vingegaard do in the next Grand Tour if Kuss or Roglic is in a breakaway on stage 4, 5 or 6? Will he accept becoming a "domestique" once again?

I don't see vingegaard and roglic ever riding another GT together on the same team, and I don't see other teams ever allowing Kuss to roll away in an early break again.

 

[tretiak]

I think all teams should drive for the teammate who is first after the first stage. It will be a little more exciting then.

If it is a flat stage, for example:

Philipssen for Alpecin
Groenewegen for Jayco
Jakobsen for Soudal
Kooij for Jumbo
Molano for UAE

It would be interesting in the mountains.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

The question is which is the next team that will do the same for their domestique if a similar situation now arises.

My vote is for Majka.

A situation where a domestique is one of the three strongest riders, is stronger than anyone not on his team AND has been let gain free time is not likely to occur again any time soon.

 

[Cookster15]

Wow, congrats to Remco and Sepp Kuss, I didn't expect that!

As for the team orders, I understand LS's purist point of view, but Kuss's victory will be more popular globally than Vingegaard going back to back grand tours. That means better for Jumbo's sponsors. Jumbo were so much stronger as a team and this is reflected on them about to lock out the podium in Madrid. Good for them.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Wow, congrats to Remco and Sepp Kuss, I didn't expect that!

As for the team orders, I understand LS's purist point of view, but Kuss's victory will be more popular globally than Vingegaard going back to back grand tours. That means better for Jumbo's sponsors. Jumbo were so much stronger as a team and this is reflected on them about to lock out the podium in Madrid. Good for them.

It is difficult to fully accept a GT victory that was won on Twitter, though.

 

[Danskebjerge]

I think all teams should drive for the teammate who is first after the first stage. It will be a little more exciting then.

Or why not make an official rule about it: No rider may cross the finish line in a stage before a teammate who is placed higher in the general classification.

 

[tretiak]

It is difficult to fully accept a GT victory that was won on Twitter, though.

I agree.

But the Internet community and English well known commentators wanted this among many others. Pressure and hatred might pay off, it might be the future that we saw today.

Hopefully not!

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

In that case, Kuss' pacifying presence as a neutral third option has prevented us getting some proper Roche/Visentini or Olano/Jiménez hatred out there that would have given us some actual intrigue rather than this kiss-and-make-up stuff that makes Schleck and Contador's bromance on Tourmalet look like Barredo and Costa.

Hell, Wiggins/Froome was more entertaining a fratricidal battle, if only for Cath and Michelle throwing haymakers at each other on social media.

Yes we would all be hugely entertained by a vicious three cornered version of Roche/Visentini, but it‘s hardly unreasonable that JV would prefer not to have that happen

 

[Lequack]

Police were not happy with Jumbo tactics today and took it out on a poor helper

https://twitter.com/x/status/1702357766268948891

View: https://twitter.com/relevo/status/1702357766268948891

 

[tretiak]

A situation where a domestique is one of the three strongest riders, is stronger than anyone not on his team AND has been let gain free time is not likely to occur again any time soon.

So now kindergarten is over.

 

[jaylew]

Jumbo *** themselves and this is all on them.
Tried to outsmart everyone having Sepp in that early break when employing the Sky strategy
the would have smashed all their opponents anyways because the have BY FAR the strongest
riders in the race.
Checkmated themseleves

What exactly is on them? Unprecedented success? Despite all the hullabaloo, they're going to sweep the GC, win every GT in a year for the first time in history, and have won a bunch of stages. They're going to be partying like it's 1999 when this is over.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Yes we would all be hugely entertained by a vicious three cornered version of Roche/Visentini, but it‘s hardly unreasonable that JV would prefer not to have that happen

Really sucks to be Mikel Landa though.

Races turn into online popularity contests just as he ceases to be the most popular rider online.

 

[Zoetemelk-fan]

Police were not happy with Jumbo tactics today and took it out on a poor helper

https://twitter.com/x/status/1702357766268948891

View: https://twitter.com/relevo/status/1702357766268948891

For xx time just this edition:
If one was ever really in doubt; This is La Vuelta.

 

[Tim Cahill]

It probably is the first GC to be won by 18 month cycling fans whingeing on twitter, who haven't yet had their fandom tested by a few doping scandals and RIcky Ricco giving himself an enema with cows blood in a KFC toilet. Let's see if the 'yay #GCkuss' crowd are still here in a few years time.

It was probably the right thing to do PR wise but who cares about that, we are down to the bare bones of hoping something happens now, I found myself checking to see if Pierre Latour was still here so Steff Cras can get the Direct Energy boys on the front on stage 20 to launch a dramatic raid for Top 10. That's the stage the race is at.

Spoiler, he isn't here.

 

[Escarabajo]

It probably is the first GC to be won by 18 month cycling fans whingeing on twitter, who haven't yet had their fandom tested by a few doping scandals and RIcky Ricco giving himself an enema with cows blood in a KFC toilet. Let's see if the 'yay #GCkuss' crowd are still here in a few years time.

It was probably the right thing to do PR wise but who cares about that, we are down to the bare bones of hoping something happens now, I found myself checking to see if Pierre Latour was still here so Stef Crass can get the Direct Energy boys on the front on stage 20 to launch a dramatic raid for Top 10. That's the stage the race is at.

Spoiler, he isn't here.

Well this thing is just getting started. On Stage 20 there will be a Spanish stampede that the JV team misses and will be all day fighting for the top positions!!!
One can only dream.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Serious question: what other riders who we can expect to see riding as domestiques in the near future could realistically prove to be stronger than every other team’s leaders in a GT? Without it involving a transformative improvement as a climber that is. Adam Yates is the only one that I can immediately think of.

 

[tobydawq]

Police were not happy with Jumbo tactics today and took it out on a poor helper

https://twitter.com/x/status/1702357766268948891

View: https://twitter.com/relevo/status/1702357766268948891

I think the police have acted strangely throughout this race. There was a similar incident after stage 11, and they're very heavyhanded in the way they manhandle the spectators on the climbs. Furthermore, they don't realise that they are not ghosts so in quite a few instances, they have been very close to being collided with by riders.

I guess you don't have to pass the most cognitively taxing exam to become a member of la Guardia Civil.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

It probably is the first GC to be won by 18 month cycling fans whingeing on twitter, who haven't yet had their fandom tested by a few doping scandals and RIcky Ricco giving himself an enema with cows blood in a KFC toilet. Let's see if the 'yay #GCkuss' crowd are still here in a few years time.

It was probably the right thing to do PR wise but who cares about that, we are down to the bare bones of hoping something happens now, I found myself checking to see if Pierre Latour was still here so Stef Crass can get the Direct Energy boys on the front on stage 20 to launch a dramatic raid for Top 10. That's the stage the race is at.

Spoiler, he isn't here.

I was literally just thinking, a positive test for somebody random is about the only thing missing from this absolute debacle of a Grand Tour. We've had organisational awfulness, organisational weakness, the péloton refusing to ride the course, neutralisations of dry sections to put the finish in dangerous sections, we've had dangerous sprints, we've had annulments, we've had Fernando Escartín standing on a gate trying to take the GC time of people coming past at random, we've had stage winners crashing after the line, we've had police violence, we've had online uproar, we've had teammates attacking teammates, we've been reduced to teammates attacking teammates being the only entertainment left only to have that taken away because a bunch of people realised cycling's answer to Edward Cullen might not win that way, so they bitched and whined on Twitter until the team agreed to neutralise even more racing. Some doping scandals are about the only thing left that could possibly further this fiasco.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Well this thing is just getting started. On Stage 20 there will be a Spanish stampede that the JV team misses and will be all day fighting for the top positions!!!
One can only dream.

Where's José Recio when you need him?

 

[Valv.Piti]

I was literally just thinking, a positive test for somebody random is about the only thing missing from this absolute debacle of a Grand Tour. We've had organisational awfulness, organisational weakness, the péloton refusing to ride the course, neutralisations of dry sections to put the finish in dangerous sections, we've had dangerous sprints, we've had annulments, we've had Fernando Escartín standing on a gate trying to take the GC time of people coming past at random, we've had stage winners crashing after the line, we've had police violence, we've had online uproar, we've had teammates attacking teammates, we've been reduced to teammates attacking teammates being the only entertainment left only to have that taken away because a bunch of people realised cycling's answer to Edward Cullen might not win that way, so they bitched and whined on Twitter until the team agreed to neutralise even more racing. Some doping scandals are about the only thing left that could possibly further this fiasco.

Tbf, teammates attacking teammates is some of the most entertaining stuff cycling has to offer. So that's a huge plus if we just forget for a minute that the reason they are doing it is because theres literally not anything else to race for or anyone else to race against than themselves.

 

[Tim Cahill]

I was literally just thinking, a positive test for somebody random is about the only thing missing from this absolute debacle of a Grand Tour. We've had organisational awfulness, organisational weakness, the péloton refusing to ride the course, neutralisations of dry sections to put the finish in dangerous sections, we've had dangerous sprints, we've had annulments, we've had Fernando Escartín standing on a gate trying to take the GC time of people coming past at random, we've had stage winners crashing after the line, we've had police violence, we've had online uproar, we've had teammates attacking teammates, we've been reduced to teammates attacking teammates being the only entertainment left only to have that taken away because a bunch of people realised cycling's answer to Edward Cullen might not win that way, so they bitched and whined on Twitter until the team agreed to neutralise even more racing. Some doping scandals are about the only thing left that could possibly further this fiasco.

Davide Cimolai, a mere 4 hours 14 down on GC, 2 years ban for some strepsils cough sweets, complete with a 20 minute Blythe/Lloyd monologue about the sport really cleaning up it's act.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Tbf, teammates attacking teammates is some of the most entertaining stuff cycling has to offer. So that's a huge plus if we just forget for a minute that the reason they are doing it is because theres literally not anything else to race for or anyone else to race against than themselves.

...and then they took even that away from us, because people that follow Jonathan Vaughters on Twitter got their jimmies rustled.

 

[Red Lobster]

Serious question: what other riders who we can expect to see riding as domestiques in the near future could realistically prove to be stronger than every other team’s leaders in a GT? Without it involving a transformative improvement as a climber that is. Adam Yates is the only one that I can immediately think of.

Landa riding for Evenepoel in a weak/depleted GT?

 

[ManicJack]

...and then they took even that away from us, because people that follow Jonathan Vaughters on Twitter got their jimmies rustled.

Good thing you were in the JV meetings the last couple days so you could give us the real story behind the decisions that were made. 🙄

 

[Bolder]

Yeah, and what will Vingegaard do in the next Grand Tour if Kuss or Roglic is in a breakaway on stage 4, 5 or 6? Will he accept becoming a "domestique" once again?

I do not think either of those scenarios will happen….