Vuelta a España Vuelta a España 2023, stage 18: Pola de Allande - La Cruz de Linares, 178.9k

[Libertine Seguros]

Good thing you were in the JV meetings the last couple days so you could give us the real story behind the decisions that were made. 🙄

You think it's a coincidence that they race until social media gets upset that their favourite nice sweet boy who totally holds doors open for old ladies (all other riders are a-holes!) might not win, and then all of a sudden everybody is holding hands and shepherding him around and turning the red jersey into the equivalent of a participation medal?

 

[Netserk]

I think the police have acted strangely throughout this race. There was a similar incident after stage 11, and they're very heavyhanded in the way they manhandle the spectators on the climbs. Furthermore, they don't realise that they are not ghosts so in quite a few instances, they have been very close to being collided with by riders.

I guess you don't have to pass the most cognitively taxing exam to become a member of la Guardia Civil.

Business as usual in Spain.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Come on. You people can’t seriously think that JV decided against having three of the four most important riders on their whole squad get into a fratricidal battle for a week because they were afraid of twitter moaning.

 

[Vino's Mum]

Landa riding for Evenepoel in a weak/depleted GT?

 

[ditton-bayesian]

I was literally just thinking, a positive test for somebody random is about the only thing missing from this absolute debacle of a Grand Tour. We've had organisational awfulness, organisational weakness, the péloton refusing to ride the course, neutralisations of dry sections to put the finish in dangerous sections, we've had dangerous sprints, we've had annulments, we've had Fernando Escartín standing on a gate trying to take the GC time of people coming past at random, we've had stage winners crashing after the line, we've had police violence, we've had online uproar, we've had teammates attacking teammates, we've been reduced to teammates attacking teammates being the only entertainment left only to have that taken away because a bunch of people realised cycling's answer to Edward Cullen might not win that way, so they bitched and whined on Twitter until the team agreed to neutralise even more racing. Some doping scandals are about the only thing left that could possibly further this fiasco.

But aside from all that, what has this Vuelta ever done for us?

 

[Red Lobster]

You think it's a coincidence that they race until social media gets upset that their favourite nice sweet boy who totally holds doors open for old ladies (all other riders are a-holes!) might not win, and then all of a sudden everybody is holding hands and shepherding him around and turning the red jersey into the equivalent of a participation medal?

Why do I hear your posts in Bobcat Goldthwait's voice?

 

[ManicJack]

You think it's a coincidence that they race until social media gets upset that their favourite nice sweet boy who totally holds doors open for old ladies (all other riders are a-holes!) might not win, and then all of a sudden everybody is holding hands and shepherding him around and turning the red jersey into the equivalent of a participation medal?

So when Kuss said they rode today like they had agreed to do on the Angrilu he's lying? Maybe they betrayed orders and got a talking to that had nothing to do with twats on the twit.

 

[EddyMazzoleni]

You think it's a coincidence that they race until social media gets upset that their favourite nice sweet boy who totally holds doors open for old ladies (all other riders are a-holes!) might not win, and then all of a sudden everybody is holding hands and shepherding him around and turning the red jersey into the equivalent of a participation medal?

Honestly, what i think happened is that they wanted to make Kuss win from the beginning, but also give the other the possibility to go for stages and put on a bit of a show. Thing went fine on Tourmalet, with Jonas winning on the birthday of his daughter and gaining back a limited amount of time. But than Bejes happens, and Jonas his back within reaching distant of the red jersey on a day where it was most likely Roglic turn. At this point Rogla is like 'WTF boys' and so he pushes Angliru, Kuss is scared of having another contender close to him (or maybe he want to win on his birthday?) and closes him but blows up, and now Vingegaard, unwiling to let Roglic back in the fight, drop Kuss too and comes really close to the GC lead. And then we have today ***-show.
So, i don't think social media decided the winner, more likely it was jumbo management, which of course one can consider unfair as well.

 

[Descender]

Business as usual in Spain.

Spanish police never got around to ditching the old Francoist tactics of hit first and ask never.

But aside from all that, what has this Vuelta ever done for us?

Honestly I wouldn't like it any other way. It's like that trainwreck friend of yours that publicly you're trying to help get back on track, but really you don't want them to change because they would lose all the allure.

 

[Armchair cyclist]

the publi(cyst)

Yeah, you've made that 'joke' at least three times today. If anyone thought there was anything to appreciate in it, they have done so by now. If your intention was to shock or offend anyone, they are as shocked and offended as they ever will be.

Time to move on by now...

 

[Netserk]

Spanish police never got around to ditching the old Francoist tactics of hit first and ask never.

Good to see you again, Descender. Hopefully Unipublic will someday figure out that a new climb like the one today doesn't have to be a MTF. It could have been an amazing stage to Oviedo instead.

 

[Armchair cyclist]

I think all teams should drive for the teammate who is first after the first stage. It will be a little more exciting then.

If it is a flat stage, for example:

Philipssen for Alpecin
Groenewegen for Jayco
Jakobsen for Soudal
Kooij for Jumbo
Molano for UAE

It would be interesting in the mountains.

Or the main GC guy for each time would be the sprinter that day. Equally embarrassing, but only for a couple of hundred metres.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Or the main GC guy for each time would be the sprinter that day. Equally embarrassing, but only for a couple of hundred metres.

I don't know that it would be any more embarrassing than the Austrian GP-style orchestrated BS we watched today.

 

[Nick2413]

Heart wanted Kuss to win but deep down it’s wrong. Hopefully this doesn’t become more of a trend, not that it’s a common scenario. Social media and emotions shouldn’t decide who wins bike races.

 

[Escarabajo]

No. Don't worry Nick today was the only day when the others didn't try to take the Vuelta for him. Additionally, he has three GTs in his legs. So he deserves this Vuelta just like the other 2 won theirs. Don't worry. It is just his personality that makes it look like charity but it never was. On Stage 16 I don't think he would have lost that time. just that Roglic and Him had to stay with the others. So it wasn't that simple. In the Tourmalet did you see the acceleration that he had to drop everyone. I am sure he was just following wheels as well. So it wasn't for lack of talent that he couldn't challenge a GT before. So he deserves this Vuelta!!! IMHO.

 

[Armchair cyclist]

It's just as well that Vingegaard let go of those few seconds at the end. If not, this race would be near the top of lists of the closest GTs in history, and those too young or innocent to know better would think to themselves, "What a fantastic animated battle that must have been between the pair of them." And those of us who knew better would have had to describe how in our generation it is not competitive effort that brings success, but media popularity.

 

[veganrob]

You think it's a coincidence that they race until social media gets upset that their favourite nice sweet boy who totally holds doors open for old ladies (all other riders are a-holes!) might not win, and then all of a sudden everybody is holding hands and shepherding him around and turning the red jersey into the equivalent of a participation medal?

I don't think social media had anything to do with Jumbo putting the reins on Roglic and Vingo. And the race is not over with. Not that I think anything will change. I think there is a lot of discord on the team even before La Vuelta. Most likely from Roglic and he won't be with JV next year. It was a pretty bizarre decision to have the three of them there unless there was ulterior motives from the bosses.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Congratulations to Remco Evenepoel for winning the stage.

As for the GC battle. It's now artificially capped. So no special need to discuss it further.

 

[Armchair cyclist]

I wonder what sort of bonus Vingegaard and Roglic were on to win the Vuelta.
I wonder what proportion of that they were given to persuade them to not try to do so.

 

[Jack_89]

At the end of day, re-watching the final km, I can say it was one of the most embarrassing/comical moment I ever seen in a thing that should ( in theory) show a proper professional competition.
A guy(Kuss) who tried to counterattack another one who was 4mins behind, a guy( Jonas) pissed off cause saw that as some kind disrespectful and ordered to stop ( 200m then he also faked a gap to put up more drama ), and finally another guy (Roglic) caught in the middle and no longer knew what to do, whether being dropped or follow the sprint that wins against them 11 times out of 10( magically today he lost).
A very poor and ridiculous show that a GT doesn't deserve. Just fiction of low quality.
My personal though and opinion

 

[Nick2413]

No. Don't worry Nick today was the only day when the others didn't try to take the Vuelta for him. Additionally, he has three GTs in his legs. So he deserves this Vuelta just like the other 2 won theirs. Don't worry. It is just his personality that makes it look like charity but it never was. On Stage 16 I don't think he would have lost that time. just that Roglic and Him had to stay with the others. So it wasn't that simple. In the Tourmalet did you see the acceleration that he had to drop everyone. I am sure he was just following wheels as well. So it wasn't for lack of talent that he couldn't challenge a GT before. So he deserves this Vuelta!!! IMHO.

It is true he was possibly strongest on Tourmalet and would’ve been much closer on Bejes stage so that’s going for him. They held off when he was dropped on Angliru and never know what would’ve happened today, but overall this was about the least of a gift out of all gifts I’ve seen.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I don't think social media had anything to do with Jumbo putting the reins on Roglic and Vingo. And the race is not over with. Not that I think anything will change. I think there is a lot of discord on the team even before La Vuelta. Most likely from Roglic and he won't be with JV next year. It was a pretty bizarre decision to have the three of them there unless there was ulterior motives from the bosses.

Personal opinion is that if this wasn't them getting a telling off because of the media / social media reaction to yesterday, they'd have done a better job of acting.

 

[Gratemans]

Kuss' view on racing in 2020 was that it is something he is there to stop happening. Justifying the most negative, pathetic examples of non-racing this side of Adam Hansen waking up on a rainy day, giving an interview where he insists that riders should only race if the stage finishes on the steepest climb, and then the team actually racing like they believe that. Using him as this negative weapon, to kill off all racing, but never actually add to racing.

This continued for a couple of years, largely until Vingegaard took control of the team as a clear leader alongside Rogla, for whom Sepp basically did nothing while every mountain stage ended in a 15-man group ride at a tempo tapped out by somebody like George Bennett, and then Sepp would be there telling everybody how hard they raced the stage, while breathing through his nose and having done absolutely nothing.

Nowadays the dislike is ingrained and as his racing has become less objectionable to me, the way he is pushed as this wonderful, benevolent super nice guy really grinds my gears, and the more people seem to be won over by his Mary Poppins exterior, the more I want him to go away.

Plus we now have a diet of commentators and pundits who all think he's wonderful and we should neuter racing to his benefit because he happens to speak their language.

Interesing read. I think I kind of understand you now. And I bet he literally used the term "kill the race" in that interview. I can see how, especially when it's phrased like that, it might trigger you. Hell, it triggers me a bit as well. But when you think about it, isn't chasing down attacks or trying to prevent them just the job of any superdomestique? Now if a GC contender were to use these words, I'd insta-hate him as well, but a domestique? Nah.

Anyway, that was an interesting post that got me thinking, so thanks.

 

[ManicJack]

Personal opinion is that if this wasn't them getting a telling off because of the media / social media reaction to yesterday, they'd have done a better job of acting.

Did Kuss lie about the Angrilu then?

 

[zlev11]

the Kuss fiasco is a perfect storm of a very nationalistic American/anglophone fan base coinciding with everyones brains being warped by watching superhero movies for 15 years that have nice heartfelt endings and nothing but clear heroes and villians. everyone wants the Good Guy to win even if it's in direct conflict with the point of having a competition in the first place.