Well done with the pro teams

[auscyclefan94]

No Way they send Phinney (who can't climb) to the Giro... Phinney will be in Cali beating Levi in the time trial again.

Mike Sayers has said that they are thinking about sending him there.

 

[kurtinsc]

No Way they send Phinney (who can't climb) to the Giro... Phinney will be in Cali beating Levi in the time trial again.

I tend to agree with this. I'll be shocked if Phinney rides a GT this year. Perhaps one with a prologue and time trial before any mountain stages so he can withdraw, but even that would suprise me.

In fact, I'll be shocked if he rides a GT at any point prior to being done with track cycling.

 

[theyoungest]

I tend to agree with this. I'll be shocked if Phinney rides a GT this year. Perhaps one with a prologue and time trial before any mountain stages so he can withdraw, but even that would suprise me.

In fact, I'll be shocked if he rides a GT at any point prior to being done with track cycling.

Bobridge also rode the Giro this year, for two weeks until he could barely ride anymore. I have no idea why, maybe it's the newest insight into the workings of rider development, to let non-climby track cyclists ride the most climby GT at age 20.

 

[Mellow Velo]

This just highlights how daft this whole scheme is.
The further back you go, the stronger BMC candidates become, because of their "experienced" classics riders.
The actual BMC 2009 squad were almost exclusively novices to top flight road racing.

+1

I think that is unfair...you have to start from somewhere and it is much better than just buying a whole team. I would ask you to put "BMC Hater" in your signature.

Not at all. You have forgotten my earlier post about BMC building slowly.
In 2009 they had mostly unknown Swiss/US riders and rode only the big Swiss races.
That's not unfair statement, but an observation.

My whole point was about this whole idea of riders carrying forward points being wrong.
Now that, I do hate.

 

[auscyclefan94]

I tend to agree with this. I'll be shocked if Phinney rides a GT this year. Perhaps one with a prologue and time trial before any mountain stages so he can withdraw, but even that would suprise me.

In fact, I'll be shocked if he rides a GT at any point prior to being done with track cycling.

Phinney has actually said in an interview with an american cycling radio show that he won't be doing very much on the track especially because of the track events at the olympics.

 

[ingsve]

weren't the antedents of Saxo Division II?) and it worked. .

Yes, they started as Team Home -Jack&Jones in 1998 and 1999 and was TT2 until they turned TT1 in 2000 as Memorycard - Jack&Jones

 

[kurtinsc]

Phinney has actually said in an interview with an american cycling radio show that he won't be doing very much on the track especially because of the track events at the olympics.

I believe he also said he'd be shooting for another WC. And last I heard he was still going to try for the Omnium at the Olympics.

I don't think he's planning on riding a lot of events, but as long as he's competing on the track, I can't see him dropping much weight.

And if he's not dropping weight, I can't see him doing much in stages with much climbing. I expect TT results, perhaps something on some sprint stages or flatter cobbled races... but not much else until he drops the track.

He weighs 180 pounds. Wiggins is an inch shorter... and 20 pounds lighter after his post-track weight loss. If/When Phinney does something like that, I could see something happening in a race with a significant uphill. Not until then.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Is the Geox team especially strong outside of its two leaders? No, not especially.

But there's no way it's weaker than BMC 2010.

Picking "BMC without Evans" for CQ points is a bit of a misnomer, however - if they hadn't had Evans they'd have gone to about a tenth of the races they did go to, so they'd not have the opportunities to score those points.

 

[Matthijs]

We're not talking about the days of yore... this year, QST really weren't that impressive in the classics (except for Boonen, of course).

We're not talking about an one year license eather. So maybe it is wisest to not only look at 2010 but also to 2009 and maybe even some years before. Although, from your name, I can understand your comment about 2009 quick step total domination seems like medieval times.
Besides Cobbles, they have good results on several Tour-stages trough the years. Another proof they're definately not weak in their depth. + they have the active rider with the most Monuments (yes, more then Cancellara)

If Anton is not a decent leader, only three teams will start in the Giro.

Anton will never peak at the Giro. Hey guys, Euskaltel never made something of these races. If he is going it's only for some racing rythm, probably without any decent domestique, no from and no motivation. It's all Tour and Vuelta for these Basque guys (allthough I'm glad their still ProTour!)

 

[ingsve]

Is the Geox team especially strong outside of its two leaders? No, not especially.

But there's no way it's weaker than BMC 2010.

Picking "BMC without Evans" for CQ points is a bit of a misnomer, however - if they hadn't had Evans they'd have gone to about a tenth of the races they did go to, so they'd not have the opportunities to score those points.

Removing the leader has nothing to do with actually riding without the leader. It's just a way of comparing the strength of each squad without the strength of the each leader influencing the comparison. Remember also that both teams have substantial recruitments too so the comparison has very little to do with what races they rode.

 

[Matthijs]

You guys allmost convinced me that BMC isn't a joke in the ProTour and at least is a good team. But then:

Kristoff
Wyss
Kohler
Phinney
Murphy
Santaromita
Quinziato
Beyer
Tschopp

This team for the Giro? ProTour is no Giro, but if you can't find a better squad for the 2nd most important race what are you doing on the Prolevel?
OK Geox is stage-races only and doesn't deserve to ride classics, Euskaltel the same and RadioShack is in doubt if it even deserves to excists. So maybe that evens all out. Again there is only one conclusion: the UCI should change big time.
Good job though they let Vacansoleil en quickstep in

 

[ingsve]

You guys allmost convinced me that BMC isn't a joke in the ProTour and at least is a good team. But then:

This team for the Giro? ProTour is no Giro, but if you can't find a better squad for the 2nd most important race what are you doing on the Prolevel?
OK Geox is stage-races only and doesn't deserve to ride classics, Euskaltel the same and RadioShack is in doubt if it even deserves to excists. So maybe that evens all out. Again there is only one conclusion: the UCI should change big time.
Good job though they let Vacansoleil en quickstep in

Mind you that was just ACF94s speculation. To put it in context, since they will be targeting Tour-Vuelta with Evans this would be thier third choice GT. Take a look at Saxo Banks Giro squad this year. That was a very lack luster squad given all the top riders that Saxo Bank has. My point with that is that even a top team like Saxo Bank has trouble filling all three GTs with their very best riders.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

My problem is more that ACF will savage other teams for not having any strength in depth - sometimes correctly - yet be very defensive when others point out BMC's similar position. I fail to see how the likes of Tschopp and Santaromita - both riders I like and rate - are so much better than the likes of Blanco and Duarte that BMC are above reproach and fine for strength yet Geox deserve criticising for their lack of depth.

 

[Polyarmour]

Geox-TMC were relegated as punishment for the Footon Servetto cycle jersey.

 

[ingsve]

My problem is more that ACF will savage other teams for not having any strength in depth - sometimes correctly - yet be very defensive when others point out BMC's similar position. I fail to see how the likes of Tschopp and Santaromita - both riders I like and rate - are so much better than the likes of Blanco and Duarte that BMC are above reproach and fine for strength yet Geox deserve criticising for their lack of depth.

The diffrence is that the likes of Blanco and Duarte are the best that Geox has to offer outside of Menchov and Sastre while BMC also have a group of riders below Evans that are also above Tschopp and Santaromita. That's what gives them greater depth.

 

[Ferminal]

Why, with Evans needing specialist support, did BMC go out and buy in more classics riders and breakaway specialists?

Because Cuddles is trying to win RvV, P-R and L-B-L all next year

 

[auscyclefan94]

My problem is more that ACF will savage other teams for not having any strength in depth - sometimes correctly - yet be very defensive when others point out BMC's similar position. I fail to see how the likes of Tschopp and Santaromita - both riders I like and rate - are so much better than the likes of Blanco and Duarte that BMC are above reproach and fine for strength yet Geox deserve criticising for their lack of depth.

Blanco has won 4 tour of portuagal's. Who would of he really been against that would have any sort of form?

Duarte will be a very good rider in the future but not for a few years yet and in the past two years he has won some races in ecuador and colombia.

Currently, tschopp and santaromita are far superior...

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

Blanco has won 4 tour of portuagal's. Who would of he really been against that would have any sort of form?

Duarte will be a very good rider in the future but not for a few years yet and in the past two years he has won some races in ecuador and colombia.

Currently, tschopp and santaromita are far superior...

Ok I can't hold my tongue to such ignorance anymore. How does santaromita and tschopp have a better resume then blanco, they are not better, let alone far you silly little kid. And you keep going on about this youngster kristoff blah blah.. Yet you disregard a u23 wc (and proven in S/america -- nice off you to totally disregard these races tho, I suppose you need a PT in front of the race for it to mean anything.. ditto for volta port). You really are just biased with no idea.

 

[canyonball]

Though the quality of the field may not have been one of a Tour, Volta a Portugal is THE race in Portugal and everybody who wants to win gets there in top form. It's not that he "just" won the race 4 times, he did it with great class. The way he climbed those mountains...The only thing that holds me back is his age.

As for the BMC vs GEOX I think only one could have been picked for the pro tour. I would have choosen Geox, because I believe they can be competitive in more pro tour races (as much as you talk about bmc and his "classics" riders the truth is they have shown little in that department in the last couple of years. Ballan? were is he?). Plus BMC would have been granted entry in the races they care about anyway: Tour, Vuelta and Ardennes mainly.

 

[Mellow Velo]

Ok I can't hold my tongue to such ignorance anymore. How does santaromita and tschopp have a better resume then blanco, they are not better, let alone far you silly little kid. And you keep going on about this youngster kristoff blah blah.. Yet you disregard a u23 wc (and proven in S/america -- nice off you to totally disregard these races tho, I suppose you need a PT in front of the race for it to mean anything.. ditto for volta port). You really are just biased with no idea.

I am afraid, at the risk of being called a BMC hater again, I have to agree.
The Volta is one long, tough tour, raced in the heat of high summer.
A lot of big names have tried and failed.
What have either Tshopp or Santaromita won that compares?

As for Kritsoff v Duarte, ACF is right, they don't compare.
Trouble is, he has their rating the wrong way around.

 

[Mellow Velo]

You guys allmost convinced me that BMC isn't a joke in the ProTour and at least is a good team. But then:

Originally Posted by auscyclefan94 View Post
Kristoff
Wyss
Kohler
Phinney
Murphy
Santaromita
Quinziato
Beyer
Tschopp

This team for the Giro? ProTour is no Giro, but if you can't find a better squad for the 2nd most important race what are you doing on the Prolevel?

This observation opens up another interesting debate. There is still a lot of doubt that the ASO and RCS will sign up to this new agreement, even though Pat has already told a fib, saying they have already agreed to take all 18 PT teams.

Seems here:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/mcquaid-hits-back-after-proteam-selection-criticism
That Zomegnan may still not accept p*ss weak PT teams at his GT, which, given the UCI's placement of the ATOC, is hardly surprising.
Would a BMC team, like the one above, get the expected invite, or worse, the bunch of rubbish Radio Shack are likely to send?

 

[theyoungest]

I am afraid, at the risk of being called a BMC hater again, I have to agree.
The Volta is one long, tough tour, raced in the heat of high summer.
A lot of big names have tried and failed.
What have either Tshopp or Santaromita won that compares?

I'd go so far as to claim that the only BMC rider who could have won the Volta a Portugal this year is Cadel Evans.

 

[auscyclefan94]

This observation opens up another interesting debate. There is still a lot of doubt that the ASO and RCS will sign up to this new agreement, even though Pat has already told a fib, saying they have already agreed to take all 18 PT teams.

Seems here:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/mcquaid-hits-back-after-proteam-selection-criticism
That Zomegnan may still not accept p*ss weak PT teams at his GT, which, given the UCI's placement of the ATOC, is hardly surprising.
Would a BMC team, like the one above, get the expected invite, or worse, the bunch of rubbish Radio Shack are likely to send?

Who are katusha sending? who are quickstep sending? Who are saxobank sending? Who are movistar sending? who are HTC sending?

I bet a fair few of those teams will send lesser teams than the proposed team I put up that BMC is sending.

The biggest injustice is not BMC getting a PT license! The real issue about this is how teams can buy there way into the PT from not even having a team to having a complete team. The issue people should be talking about is how sky, radioshack and Luxembourg cycling project can get a license without even proving themselves as a team?

BMC certainly deserve a PT license ahead of AG2R, Quickstep, euskatel and imo Geox.

now get off BMC's case!

 

[Marcus135]

Who are katusha sending? who are quickstep sending? Who are saxobank sending? Who are movistar sending? who are HTC sending?

I bet a fair few of those teams will send lesser teams than the proposed team I put up that BMC is sending.

The biggest injustice is not BMC getting a PT license! The real issue about this is how teams can buy there way into the PT from not even having a team to having a complete team. The issue people should be talking about is how sky, radioshack and Luxembourg cycling project can get a license without even proving themselves as a team?

BMC certainly deserve a PT license ahead of AG2R, Quickstep, euskatel and imo Geox.

now get off BMC's case!

You can see from the name is Lux they are going to do awesome, not to give it to them would be silly, shack yer they shouldnt have got one expecally after choosing not to do the gero, sky have a decent team but new teams with great names should defs get protour...

 

[auscyclefan94]

Ok I can't hold my tongue to such ignorance anymore. How does santaromita and tschopp have a better resume then blanco, they are not better, let alone far you silly little kid. And you keep going on about this youngster kristoff blah blah.. Yet you disregard a u23 wc (and proven in S/america -- nice off you to totally disregard these races tho, I suppose you need a PT in front of the race for it to mean anything.. ditto for volta port). You really are just biased with no idea.

Wow, Blanco won 4 tours of portugal? Against jack**** of competition...Let alone look at santaromita and tschopp's age in comparison. Blanco is 35. tschopp is 28 and santaromita is 26. The depth at BMC is far superior than Geox.

Geox have nobody at all for the classics. NOBODY!!!!!!!!! other than having two gt riders, Geox are not much. BMC are far more versatile. I do understand that I did forget to mention Duarte's WC and that was a mistake but if the depth of a team is duarte and blanco then please give me a break. I still gave the guy a big wrap. Saying that Kristoff does not have talent and he doesn't have a potential is ignorant and naive.

If I am an ignorant little kid then you are an ignorant little cretin.