What hppens if/when Levi & Klodi are strong than Tex in 2010 TdF?

[Publicus]

You have been 'hoodwinked' my friend.

PMCG76's post is one of the finest pieces of sarcasm on one of the most amusing threads on this forum in a long time.

Couldn't agree with you more. A masterpiece!

 

[Publicus]

Yes this is your interpretation of what happened. The point is, this was the climb the poster was refering to.



I'm not really hijacking the thread - there wouldn't be much of a thread here in the first place if it wasn't for me. I am being asked a lot of questions, it would be rude not answer most of them. Going to eat some chicken now...

That's not an interpretation. It's what actually happened. Hell ask Lance, he'll tell you that's what happened.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Yes this is your interpretation of what happened. The point is, this was the climb the poster was refering to.



I'm not really hijacking the thread - there wouldn't be much of a thread here in the first place if it wasn't for me. I am being asked a lot of questions, it would be rude not answer most of them. Going to eat some chicken now...

I thought you were in the UK? It would be 02:30 GMT? No wonder you cant sleep at night....

 

[Race Radio]

I thought you were in the UK? It would be 02:30 GMT? No wonder you cant sleep at night....

the "Living in the UK" is another one of Arbiter/BanProCycling/UnbanProCycling/BritishProCycling/Sproket1's many trolling lies.

 

[Hugh Januss]

I thought you were in the UK? It would be 02:30 GMT? No wonder you cant sleep at night....

Maybe that phrase means something else in his crowd?

 

[hfer07]

RadioShack will be going to the Tour with no designated leader like this year with Astana. The main aim will be to sweep the peloton, its all for the team.

This after all is the Bruyneel way, no designated leader and let the road decide. This is the most effective way and anyone who disagrees is just stupid and knows nothing about cycling because Bruyneel is the master tactician with more GTs to his name than anyone else.

Even if one of the guys is leading the race, he will be expected to do domestique work for his lower ranked team-mates to ensure they have a shot at the podium. Just like the marines, nobody will be left behind. The team is more important than individual victory. This method has won Bruyneel 10 Tours so no questions asked.

The other plus is that because RadioShack will have 3 leaders, AC wont know who to follow and lets face it, he will be clueless without Bruyneel guiding him. You think he was stupid this year, wait until next year. If it werent for the Hog, Contador would still not have won a major Tour. I predict a RadioShack podium sweep with Lance winning and helping his team-mates onto the podium.

Wow!!
That was literally said 12 months ago and we all know what took place in this year's Tour......

 

[Ripper]

RadioShack will be going to the Tour with no designated leader like this year with Astana. The main aim will be to sweep the peloton, its all for the team.

This after all is the Bruyneel way, no designated leader and let the road decide. This is the most effective way and anyone who disagrees is just stupid and knows nothing about cycling because Bruyneel is the master tactician with more GTs to his name than anyone else.

Even if one of the guys is leading the race, he will be expected to do domestique work for his lower ranked team-mates to ensure they have a shot at the podium. Just like the marines, nobody will be left behind. The team is more important than individual victory. This method has won Bruyneel 10 Tours so no questions asked.

The other plus is that because RadioShack will have 3 leaders, AC wont know who to follow and lets face it, he will be clueless without Bruyneel guiding him. You think he was stupid this year, wait until next year. If it werent for the Hog, Contador would still not have won a major Tour. I predict a RadioShack podium sweep with Lance winning and helping his team-mates onto the podium.

Well, now that I've read most of the posts on this thread ....

Like a great man said once, we might as well win. I am sure the Hog is aiming for a team win!

 

[hillytn]

LL and AK could easily be as good or better, but I think LA will be too proud to let either of them take over if it comes down to that. I would've liked Levi more on a different team.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Staying on topic, I'm certain that Levi and Klodi will ride support for Lance until the last climb up Tourmalet. Almost no matter what the standings of riders are to that point. These two riders have a history of shaky confidence, and submissiveness. They each easily could have lead their own teams in the past, very likely to a GT win, and in almost every instance either buckled under to ride for someone else, or faltered in leadership roles - more often than not due to risk-adverse, conservative strategies, but often simply weak leadership skills, or lack of confidence.

So yes, they each may indeed be stronger than Lance, but that doesn't matter. They signed with this team knowing their place. Levi will have a shot at the Tour of California, and Klodi possibly Suisse or German Tours, but both will bow down and ride for Lance in the Tour.

As others have stated though, it won't really matter. Unless AC is hurt, very sick, or pops +, he'll win the 2010 Tour by minutes. And even if he is somehow out, I believe several other riders will finish ahead of Lance, especially with the 2010 route being what it is with no TTT, and many climbing stages. People who still believe that doesn't matter, and Lance will still win must still think it's 2002.

 

[karlboss]

Noone can go toe to toe with AC, but he could be beaten if he doesn't have support on a team and others launch long range attacks. Apparently what the2010 has been designed for. Not sure JB has the tactical nouse to pull it off. Its hard to win when you don't have the top dog.

pmcg76...nice work.

 

[Anonymous]

It's fun to play armchair quarterback but it's all speculation until July 2010. On paper it seems that Lance certainly has the better support guys.

But you gotta feel bad for AC not being able to get out from under the Astana contract. He could make bigger waves with Caisse, Garmin, etc...

And frankly, Vino says hell play support but I'll believe it when I see it. It'll be interesting to see AC stomp on Vino if he tries.

 

[Pandora]

They sure do !!

This is the only way to beat AC. He is yet to win a GT without the support of the best stage race team in the modern era...

Did he not do so this year? My impression was that he won not because of the team, but in spite of it.

 

[Mellow Velo]

They sure do !!

This is the only way to beat AC. He is yet to win a GT without the support of the best stage race team in the modern era, and whilst I think he is still the number one favourite for the 2010 tour, it is going to be so hard to follow all the attacks from the up-and-comers, and the old farts with one year left.

That said, AC could just be the first to attack and leave them in his wake...

Sorry to concentrate on the obvious, but the same could almost be said of Lance. The only differences being he has lost a GT, with the support of the same super team, while Contador has won one, with the leftover support of the that team.

I am obviously going to have to move into the part of the UK, that is running on EST, not GMT, as I am always missing Sprocket continually reinacting the forum version of Custer's Last Stand.

Kloden? Would volunteer to become a human sacrifice for Lance, if the money was right.
Gave it all up on the Colombriere, Verbier and Ventoux, for another man's quest to recature his lost youth and dwindling stardom.

 

[Angliru]

No they weren't obviously better than LA during the tour. They perhaps started a bit better but Levi was out before it got to the tough bits so we just don't know if he would have collapsed like he did in the Giro. Kloden also cracked during the last week whilst Armstrong got stronger, and LA dropped him a few times as I recall. If Armstrong can bring that last week form to the whole tour this time then there is no reason why he will not be the best in his team.

Leipheimer had shown that he was stronger than Armstrong in the first ITT as did Kloden. Yes Kloden faltered in the latter mountain stages but I would attribute that to all the grunt work he put in prior, while Armstrong was able to sit in his draft, conserving energy. Kloden was still stronger than Armstrong in Annecy TT.

Leipheimer will gladly continue to bow down to Armstrong. He seemed giddy like a schoolgirl when interviewed about riding with Armstrong. He's just happy to be in his presence and be considered a "friend". Under his breath though, Leipheimer will whisper that there's still a chance that he could sneak in unawares and win the Tour, while everyone is watching Contador, Armstrong, Schlecklet and the rest.

 

[Angliru]

Mellow Velo,

As a character he thrives on grudges and needs seige mentality to motivate him, so with all the bust ups and allegations this year, and the general upscalling of hatred against him, it should work a lot better for his focus through the whole year.

By the way he did domestique for Levi during the Giro and did the whole water bottle thing, so it's not like he is incapable of that.

It was my understanding that where there used to be hatred for him in France, there was now acceptance, not the "hatred" that you claim. Why does it have to be black or white with nothing in between? Is it possible to simply not accept or respect Armstrong's actions without it automatically being categorized as hate? To appreciate his talents but not his methods or attitude?

Regarding the Giro we know it's all about the Tour so that one doesn't float.

 

[Anonymous]

Sorry to concentrate on the obvious, but the same could almost be said of Lance. The only differences being he has lost a GT, with the support of the same super team, while Contador has won one, with the leftover support of the that team.

I don't think that 1999 US Postal was the greatest stage race team in the modern era, which was what I said about AC (i.e. AC's 4 GT winning teams were better than Lance's 1999 team).... Plus, Lance did not 'lose' the TDF in the way you imply, becoz he was on the winning team. It would be accurate to say he LOST if andy schleck had of won, but LA 'lost' to a teammate, which I think is more respectable than losing to another team...

My point was that RadioS will be ready for the tdf with the aim of winning. AC will be with a lackluster Astana, which will mean the 3-on-1 tactics of Radio are more likely dampen his chances than he has faced in the last 4 GTs he won... I was just pointing out that compared to AC's first 4 GT wins, the 2010 TDF WIN will be his hardest GT win so far

 

[Mellow Velo]

Fair comment. Quite possibly so.
Although the Shack can't run a 3 on 1, as everybody knows he only has to follow LA's wheel.
No way LL or Kloden will be allowed to pull a "Pereiro".
It's all about the boss winning the Tour, not the super doms.

However, they will be amongst those offering stiff opposition, along with all the improving young guns and the 3 tried and tested Grand Tourists, who's minds and bodies were elsewhere, this year.

 

[cromagnon]

The Col de Neverfarkinghappened is a magic climb 63 kms long, av gradient 25% some sections are vertical. Its definitely the hardest climb in the Land of Make Believe.

Armstrong is the only person Man enough to tackle this climb.

I hear he was scouting it in February when it was snowing when all the other lazy bums in the peloton were sat on the sofa eating and watching tv. The guy said "there's 3 metres of snow, no way you can ride and it's vertical anyway" but that made no difference. Amen.

 

[Cerberus]

I don't think that 1999 US Postal was the greatest stage race team in the modern era, which was what I said about AC (i.e. AC's 4 GT winning teams were better than Lance's 1999 team).... Plus, Lance did not 'lose' the TDF in the way you imply, becoz he was on the winning team. It would be accurate to say he LOST if andy schleck had of won, but LA 'lost' to a teammate, which I think is more respectable than losing to another team...

You don't honestly think that he could have won against Schlecklet even if AC has been out of the picture?

My point was that RadioS will be ready for the tdf with the aim of winning. AC will be with a lackluster Astana, which will mean the 3-on-1 tactics of Radio are more likely dampen his chances than he has faced in the last 4 GTs he won... I was just pointing out that compared to AC's first 4 GT wins, the 2010 TDF WIN will be his hardest GT win so far

I think his 2007 win where he was younger and weaker might have been a tad more challenging. Still if 2010 will be harder it will more likely be due to the Schlecks and Saxo Bank than due to LA and The Shack.

 

[Angliru]

They sure do !!

And let's no forget that in 2007 LEVI LEIPHEIMER wore the numero uno for Discovery Channel, and Alberto Contador wore the numero duo, yet he attacked his team leader repeatedly....

My recollection is that while Leipheimer was the team leader, Contador was given free reign by Bruyneel. On the first summit finish Contador had a mechanical, was dropped by the elite group that included Leipheimer, Valverde, Mayo, Moreau... Contador fought back, caught the Leipheimer group and left Leipheimer in the dust. From that point on Contador showed that he was the strongest rider on the Discovery. You're mistake is coloring the events such that it supports your slanted, biased perspective. I'm sure we all saw the same race and will remember it differently but the facts are the facts. Please reexamine the reports that are available in the cyclingnews archives and report back to us with your findings. If we don't hear from you we can assume that you found you were mistaken.

 

[Bag_O_Wallet]

I don't think that 1999 US Postal was the greatest stage race team in the modern era, which was what I said about AC (i.e. AC's 4 GT winning teams were better than Lance's 1999 team).... Plus, Lance did not 'lose' the TDF in the way you imply, becoz he was on the winning team. It would be accurate to say he LOST if andy schleck had of won, but LA 'lost' to a teammate, which I think is more respectable than losing to another team...

My point was that RadioS will be ready for the tdf with the aim of winning. AC will be with a lackluster Astana, which will mean the 3-on-1 tactics of Radio are more likely dampen his chances than he has faced in the last 4 GTs he won... I was just pointing out that compared to AC's first 4 GT wins, the 2010 TDF WIN will be his hardest GT win so far

The Astana team at the '08 Giro looked strong on paper, but they were probably comparable to the '99 USPS team at the Tour.

 

[Angliru]

Apparently you tuned into the broadcast a little late then. Lance wasn't playing dutiful lieutenant, he was caught out tactically because of his own error. Andy Schleck had attacked the group of contenders (FS, BW, AC, AK, LA and maybe Nibali (sp)), and only AC responded immediately. Kloden bridged over, but Wiggins, Armstrong and Nibali couldn't match the acceleration and were left behind with Frank. Frank couldn't lead them back to Andy since they needed time into Bradley. Lance tries to force Wiggins to set the pace by slow pedaling. While he's doing this, he's looking at the ground and basically Wiggins almost runs into his wheel. Frank Schleck sees it, and takes off. Lance and Wiggins might as well have been walking up the hill at that point.

Lance actually put in an attack on Wiggins, but couldn't drop him and just settled in behind him and VdV until they both blew up, at which point he jumped away. He gained NO TIME ON AC, but did limit his losses to Kloden.

Get yourself a copy of Versus' coverage of Stage 17. It will confirm everything that I've written above is 100% accurate and free of bias.

++1. This is precisely, and I mean precisely as I recall the events too.

 

[Anonymous]

Playing Devil's Advocate and armchair QB, do you think that AC would have had the confidence and the motivation to win all three GT's if Rasmussen hadn't been thrown out of the '07 Tour? Rasmussen had a pretty good hold on the yellow and if memory serves me correctly, AC wasn't gaining a whole lot of time on him and the Chicken was answering all his attacks up to that point. Winning the '07 Tour certainly lit a fire in AC and we know what happened after that.

Just some food for thought...

 

[Publicus]

Playing Devil's Advocate and armchair QB, do you think that AC would have had the confidence and the motivation to win all three GT's if Rasmussen hadn't been thrown out of the '07 Tour? Rasmussen had a pretty good hold on the yellow and if memory serves me correctly, AC wasn't gaining a whole lot of time on him and the Chicken was answering all his attacks up to that point. Winning the '07 Tour certainly lit a fire in AC and we know what happened after that.

Just some food for thought...

I don't about anyone else, but I knew AC was going to be a GT star after watching him in the 2007 Paris-Nice stage race. I consider it his official coming out party. So, even if Rasmussen had won the 2007 TdF, I'm pretty sure AC would have come back in 2008 with every intention of winning every race he entered (which is his basic MO--with the exception of this year's Dauphine).

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Playing Devil's Advocate and armchair QB, do you think that AC would have had the confidence and the motivation to win all three GT's if Rasmussen hadn't been thrown out of the '07 Tour? Rasmussen had a pretty good hold on the yellow and if memory serves me correctly, AC wasn't gaining a whole lot of time on him and the Chicken was answering all his attacks up to that point. Winning the '07 Tour certainly lit a fire in AC and we know what happened after that.

Just some food for thought...

Interesting observation - like Publicus,after Paris Nice I was expecting AC to do quite well at the 07 Tour but was not expecting him to be a contender for overall.

I thought it would be his 'step-up' year and if he managed a top 10 in 07 he could be a dark horse for 2008. So even if Ras had not been kicked out of the Tour I still think he would have been a viable contender for GTs in 08.