When is the smackdown on Chris Horner?

[Benotti69]

Myself and i would think others have no respect for tossers on the internet who repeat the mantra "they are all dopers" and accuse others of corruption. As luck would have it you are not one of those tossers Benatti as you are obviously Irish and a girl.

I'll repeat the mantra as long as the testing is a joke, the testing is done by the federation and is underfunded.

Unfortunately, you are wrong, I am a Tosser (ukgser.com for explanation) from the southern hemisphere and 1 ball more than Lance.

ps It is BenOtti.

 

[Justinr]

Had the sample not gone to the particular facility (Cologne) with the most up to date equipment and methods, it is entirely possible it would not have registered an AAF.

So he really was unlucky then. Not only did he manage to eat the infected steak that no-one else in the team had, his sample went to the best lab in the world to be tested ... ouch!

 

[Fortyninefourteen]

So he really was unlucky then. Not only did he manage to eat the infected steak that no-one else in the team had, his sample went to the best lab in the world to be tested ... ouch!

His voluntary lie detector test was also clearly NOT from a Cologne lab.....

 

[Catwhoorg]

His voluntary lie detector test was also clearly NOT from a Cologne lab.....

I lolled.

 

[sniper]

The best thing about Contador is how he's been blooddoping throughout the years, from the very introduction of the BP onwards. Never got caught for it.
That's how good the BP works!

 

[Justinr]

I lolled.

At the comment or the lie detector test?

 

[Catwhoorg]

Both actually.

 

[sniper]

both Dirtie and Chris have never been caught for blooddoping but have obviously been blooddoping throughout the years from the introduction of the BP onwards.
Not a good sign for the functionality of the BP.

Admittedly for Aldirto the argument can be made that he was targettested as a result of dodgy BP values, unless it was Bruyneel who framed him.

 

[Justinr]

both Dirtie and Chris have never been caught for blooddoping but have obviously been blooddoping throughout the years from the introduction of the BP onwards.

Well I never knew that - and I thought it was the bag the steak was wrapped in that caused the plasticiser to be in his blood.

 

[DirtyWorks]

both Dirtie and Chris have never been caught for blooddoping but have obviously been blooddoping throughout the years from the introduction of the BP onwards.
Not a good sign for the functionality of the BP.

If the UCI is the anti-doping authority as they mostly are, then there is nothing the BP administrators can do with positive values to open a case.

It's up to the cycling federation and we know they don't open cases on positives. They wouldn't have opened one on Contador even though they got him on the easiest to sanction positive.

 

[MacRoadie]

WADA is good theater right now and the IOC knows it. The occasional sporting event fan tuning in every four years has been lead to believe it is a very difficult system to circumvent. That's what counts.

This is the point that seems to be lost on many.

If the IOC doesn't test then the assumption is that athletes are cheating.

If the IOC DOES test, and catches ANYONE, it becomes a fact that athletes are cheating.

 

[DirtyWorks]

This is the point that seems to be lost on many.

If the IOC doesn't test then the assumption is that athletes are cheating.

If the IOC DOES test, and catches ANYONE, it becomes a fact that athletes are cheating.

Even more than the testing itself, it's opening cases. 5+ EPO-variant positives were ready to be opened during the Salt Lake City Winter games and Rogge himself did not open the cases. This is how these sports enable the doping.

The message that WADA's system is somehow ineffectual is barely true. Nobody with the authority to open cases will do so. NADO's should be permitted to release statistics on positives ending in sanction, positive no sanction, suspicious, not suspicious.

If it were the case that the *public* message was, "New day. Fair warning. Clean up your doping in 60 days. After that, the NADO is going to have authority to open cases on any tests run by any anti-doping authority." There would have to be some allowances to limit sanctions for back-dated testing because we're pretty sure that would quadruple the queue of positives.

There would still be a queue of positives, but the message is clear and the IOC would always be on the right side of the problem. Now? They just enable the doping.

 

[Catwhoorg]

NADO's should be permitted to release statistics on positives ending in sanction, positive no sanction, suspicious, not suspicious.

Permitted ? NO

COMPELLED to release this.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Considering Armstrong didn't test positive, O'Grady, Voight, Hincapie etc never tested positive i stand by my testing is a joke.

You think Horner at his age won a GT in Spain, clean? Wow that is some suspension of belief!

I would say his belief in Grandpa is... baffling.

 

[Justinr]

both Dirtie and Chris have never been caught for blooddoping but have obviously been blooddoping throughout the years from the introduction of the BP onwards.
Not a good sign for the functionality of the BP.

Admittedly for Aldirto the argument can be made that he was targettested as a result of dodgy BP values, unless it was Bruyneel who framed him.

Probably Lance and Bruyneel after he disobeyed team orders in 2009 ...

 

[red_flanders]

Probably Lance and Bruyneel after he disobeyed team orders in 2009 ...

Probably another discussion, but how a leader of a team with a couple of GT wins to his credit, can "disobey team orders" is a mystery to me. Whatever he decides to do on the road is team orders. Like any team would tell the best climber in the world and their team leader not to attack and get time on one of 3 MTF in the Tour that year. Preposterous.

The "team orders" bullshirt is just something Lance came up with after he couldn't follow and Johan went along with it. Absolute nonsense, but the journo's all swallowed that swill, didn't they?

 

[Benotti69]

Probably another discussion, but how a leader of a team with a couple of GT wins to his credit, can "disobey team orders" is a mystery to me. Whatever he decides to do on the road is team orders. Like any team would tell the best climber in the world and their team leader not to attack and get time on one of 3 MTF in the Tour that year. Preposterous.

The "team orders" bullshirt is just something Lance came up with after he couldn't follow and Johan went along with it. Absolute nonsense, but the journo's all swallowed that swill, didn't they?

the journo's are still swallowing it from today's teams.....

 

[Granville57]

Like any team would tell the best climber in the world and their team leader not to attack and get time on one of 3 MTF in the Tour that year. Preposterous.

I don't think so. The tension within that team has been well documented, as well as that particular incident. Bill Strickland wrote (I believe it appeared in Comeback 2.0) about Johan freaking out inside the team car during Contador's attack after specifically telling Contador not to do so. It would seem that Johan knew what was coming and tried to override Contador's instincts. But it was all in vain.

As it turns out, that exact scene was captured on film in The Armstrong Lie. Bruyneel was visibly furious when Alberto jumped.
(Wish I had the link but it's been taking down from Youtube)

Back to topic at hand though.
Christopher weighed in—rather heavily—as well on the topic of Bad Bad Alberto and what a terrible team leader he was for having the audacity to leave Kloden and Lance in the dust.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ituh5z6P6TU

I have to conclude that there definitely were "team orders" against Alberto lighting it up on his own. Unfortanately for them, Contador takes orders from no one.

 

[Merckx index]

I don't think so. The tension within that team has been well documented, as well as that particular incident. Bill Strickland wrote (I believe it appeared in Comeback 2.0) about Johan freaking out inside the team car during Contador's attack after specifically telling Contador not to do so. It would seem that Johan knew what was coming and tried to override Contador's instincts. But it was all in vain.

As it turns out, that exact scene was captured on film in The Armstrong Lie. Bruyneel was visibly furious when Alberto jumped.
(Wish I had the link but it's been taking down from Youtube)

Back to topic at hand though.
Christopher weighed in—rather heavily—as well on the topic of Bad Bad Alberto and what a terrible team leader he was for having the audacity to leave Kloden and Lance in the dust.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ituh5z6P6TU

I have to conclude that there definitely were "team orders" against Alberto lighting it up on his own. Unfortanately for them, Contador takes orders from no one.

I don't know if you're referring to Verbier, when Bert took the yellow, or the later stage when he, Klodi, Andy and Frank had escaped the others. In the latter stage, it was a mistake for Bert to attack. He didn't drop Andy or Frank, but did drop Klodi, who lost his podium spot at that point. Had Bert not attacked, Klodi might have finished second, and Armstrong would have been off the podium. So all Bert's attack accomplished was to get Armstrong on the podium.

 

[Granville57]

...or the later stage [Stage 17] when he, Klodi, Andy and Frank had escaped the others. In the latter stage, it was a mistake for Bert to attack. He didn't drop Andy or Frank, but did drop Klodi, who lost his podium spot at that point. Had Bert not attacked, Klodi might have finished second, and Armstrong would have been off the podium. So all Bert's attack accomplished was to get Armstrong on the podium.

Oh I don't disagree that Contador's tactics upset the team plans, but who knows what all was transpiring behind the scenes? I've always assumed that Contador felt ambushed by Lance and Johan, and was just looking out for himself at that point.

I remember that Alberto kept looking back and Klöden, and maybe expected him to join the attack? Or maybe Contador was only putting on a show so as to not be too obvious about his personal ambitions. Hard to tell. We may never know what Contador's true goal was that day. It would've been interesting to listen in on the conversation he had with Frandy as they closed in on the finish (which included the obligatory "try" from Contador in the final few meters).

It's an interesting topic, and I'm sure there's a place for it, but I don't want to derail this Horner thread.

 

[Master50]

With what we know about UCI corruption, never mind IOC corruption, i have no respect for anyone who believes officialdom does its job fairly and honestly.

What do you KNOW about UCI corruption? What you have read about LA, HV and PM?
I am a public safety official and an Ex UCI commissaire. Some of the most ethical people i have ever met are my colleagues so respectfully you have no clue at all. I do take this as a personal attack too. sorry thin skin when you call me corrupt. I don't know what you do for a living but every one of you is a liar and a cheat. See anything true in that?
Try and stick to proving Horner is a doper.

 

[Master50]

So he really was unlucky then. Not only did he manage to eat the infected steak that no-one else in the team had, his sample went to the best lab in the world to be tested ... ouch!

That was a targeted test. it was sent to cologne for a reason. This is an opinion only but I am sure that Contador was targeted in that test because they were watching him but as we all know urine testing and blood testing need to be done at the perfect moment or in a surprise way. I think they were also hoping to use the plasticizer test. I don't think that has been accredited yet?
It might come as a surprise to some here but most people that work and volunteer in anti doping want to catch the dopers. It is only politicians that want to manage it.

 

[DirtyWorks]

What do you KNOW about UCI corruption? What you have read about LA, HV and PM?

Hein? The guy that said Lance "never, never, never" doped? The guy that said the UCI never covers up positives? Which, is true. They just don't open cases.

I am a public safety official and an Ex UCI commissaire. Some of the most ethical people i have ever met are my colleagues so respectfully you have no clue at all. I do take this as a personal attack too. sorry thin skin when you call me corrupt.

I know there are good people at all levels of the sport and you may well be one of them. But, other individuals at other levels of the sport are corrupt. This is a matter of fact. Please don't take it personally.

 

[Master50]

It's an interesting topic, and I'm sure there's a place for it, but I don't want to derail this Horner thread.[/QUOTE]

Hey we are all waiting for something new to say.. this train is not off the rails so much as on the siding and we need to talk about everything else until he starts racing again He needs to do something we can dissect. I think just about everything about his Vuelta victory, his career, his dining habits, his enthusiasm, his fragility, his ridiculous old age has been said and of course that he still has not got the Smackdown? Don't worry I am sure there will be more CH drama to come.

 

[Master50]

Hein? The guy that said Lance "never, never, never" doped? The guy that said the UCI never covers up positives? Which, is true. They just don't open cases.

I know there are good people at all levels of the sport and you may well be one of them. But, other individuals at other levels of the sport are corrupt. This is a matter of fact. Please don't take it personally.

From you I don't think I would. I know there are corrupt public officials and sports officials but they are not the rule at least not in my world. There are parts f the world and subsets that have a very corrupt culture. At the top of sport especially in Europe there is an incredible sense of entitlement but they are the politicians not the officials. The have some influence on top staff but no one can corrupt everyone or maybe nowhere is every one corrupt.
B69 is just trying too hard and I am getting tired of his absolutes.
thanks