When is the smackdown on Chris Horner?

[The Hitch]

I don't know if you're referring to Verbier, when Bert took the yellow, or the later stage when he, Klodi, Andy and Frank had escaped the others.

I think it was Arcalis a week earlier not verbier that contador attacked "against team orders".

People forget now since nocentini took the jersey but Armstrong was on his way to the yellow jersey that day. Canc was in yellow but was obviously going to lose time and Armstrong had been the only gc rider in the break on the echelon stage so had a gap on all other gc riders. At the pace they were going the top breakaway rider - rinaldo, was going to get caught. Of course when contador attacked that disrupted the train. Armstrong panicked, kloeden didn't know what to do, and he lost way more than the 5 secs he eventually missed the jersey by.

Knowing what we know now, it's very likely Armstrong intended to win the tour by taking the jersey and then stonewalling contador with the claim that a teammate can never attack the yellow jersey.

He was going to use all the pro lance media to declare that it is against the unwritten rules of the sport to attack the yellow jersey. That's why it was so important for brunyeel and lance that contador would work with lance to take back the time on the break together and ride lance into the yellow. If contador even tried anything they could use it as an excuse to jeopardise his tour. Who knows maybe even with dope (holding back /threatening exposure. With this mob you never know. They did it to Hamilton afterall)

Contador likely figured it out himself, and realized he HAD to attack on Arcalis to move ahead of Armstrong in gc and neutralize his play, or his tdf would be in major jeopardy despite the fact that he was the strongest. That's why he ignored the radio he claimed was broken, maybe even broke it himself and sailed off as fast as he could.

Armstrong then went to the media with his - you can't attack the team leader play. But without the yellow jersey to symbolically solidify him as the leader to begin with, it was weak. They couldn't justify war on contador solely because he attacked a teammate who was higher on gc. So brunyeel settled from contador and let him win the tdf.

But Armstrong was clearly furious and my guess is because for him taking the yellow was his chance at the tdf.

The interesting thing is, Armstrong missed out on the jersey in Montpellier by less than a second, thanks to cancellaras heroics. If Astana had taken that 1 extra second somewhere on that ttt course which at 30k really could have been anywhere, Lance would have gone into Arcalis as the mj to begin with, and contador would have been under far more pressure to not attack, maybe even coerced into settling for 2nd. If he did attack, it would have been 100 x the storm it ended up being.

Who knows where history takes us from there. Does Landis attack 9 months later a born again mega celebrity Armstrong, fresh off winning several sportsman of the year awards in 2009, a reception with the president etc, rather than a washed up on his way down personality who's proved he's human by failing to win and hasn't been big in the media for half a decade.

Hell, did Contador wise up by Montpelier after the echelon stage and hold back on his pulls Armstrong said the day before Contador had a lot to learn. Maybe that day he showed he did not.

Many questions. To paraphrase a sarcastic character catchphrase from the wire - I love this ****ing sport.

 

[Justinr]

That was a targeted test. it was sent to cologne for a reason. This is an opinion only but I am sure that Contador was targeted in that test because they were watching him but as we all know urine testing and blood testing need to be done at the perfect moment or in a surprise way. I think they were also hoping to use the plasticizer test. I don't think that has been accredited yet?
It might come as a surprise to some here but most people that work and volunteer in anti doping want to catch the dopers. It is only politicians that want to manage it.

Good. My post was a little on the sarcastic side ... So hopefully you didnt take my comment too seriously.

Bertie has been doping all his career in my view - him being disassociated from Puerto by the investigation stinks. "I was in the wrong team at the wrong time" - BS!

 

[RobbieCanuck]

That was a targeted test. it was sent to cologne for a reason. This is an opinion only but I am sure that Contador was targeted in that test because they were watching him but as we all know urine testing and blood testing need to be done at the perfect moment or in a surprise way. I think they were also hoping to use the plasticizer test. I don't think that has been accredited yet?
It might come as a surprise to some here but most people that work and volunteer in anti doping want to catch the dopers. It is only politicians that want to manage it.

The plasticizer test for AC's sample taken on July 21, 2010 had not been accredited at the time the sample was analyzed and that may be what you are saying. It is not clear.

I am not sure if the same test is now accredited.

 

[Benotti69]

What do you KNOW about UCI corruption? What you have read about LA, HV and PM?
I am a public safety official and an Ex UCI commissaire. Some of the most ethical people i have ever met are my colleagues so respectfully you have no clue at all. I do take this as a personal attack too. sorry thin skin when you call me corrupt. I don't know what you do for a living but every one of you is a liar and a cheat. See anything true in that?
Try and stick to proving Horner is a doper.

The fish rots from the head. Tell me Hein Verbruggen was not corrupt for 14 years or that the following 7 with McQuaid was not corrupt.

You may have timed riders correctly, but the riders were doped and easily avoiding detection from dope tests.

What have you done from the inside to oust the Verbruggen and McQuaids from 21 years of corruption. Pity your skin wasn't thinner and pushed you to do something about over 2 decades of this.

There were a lot more than LA, HG or TH out there cheating, take a look at http://dopeology.org/ and then get back to me that doping is not an endemic culture to the sport.

I dont need to prove Horner is a doper. Horner does a good job of that himself.

 

[Granville57]

People forget now...

Great post, hitch. Every word of it.

The interesting thing is, Armstrong missed out on the jersey in Montpellier by less than a second...

Much less, if I recall. It was so, so very close for Armstrong. I, too, have always wondered what hinged on just a few fractions of a second on that fateful day of the TTT.

[Edit]
As I research that, I'd forgotten just how very, very close it was.

Cancellara thus having the same overall time as Lance Armstrong but retaining the yellow jersey by virtue of the fractions of a second recorded in the opening time trial.

Wow. That would tend to keep one up at night.

One also has to wonder at might have happened had Levi not crashed out of that Tour with a broken wrist. All joking aside, he was firmly in the Armstrong camp and provided yet another ally for Lance as such. Not sure if it would've changed anything, but it would've reinforced Armstrong's psychologial edge, if nothing else. And then imagine if Horner <<relevant to this thread! >>had been selected for the Tour team?! Contador would've been outnumbered even further.

 

[Granville57]

A good, revealing interview with Horner from 2010.

http://www.ridemedia.com.au/interviews/chris-horner-profile-flashback-from-2010/

He sounds surprisingly Armstrong-ian in some of that. It's not just about winning, but relishing in the defeat of others.

As for the race against the clock, “It’s meaningless to me. Is it nice to win a TT? Yeah, okay, I’ll take it. But for the most part it’s [not?] the most unenjoyable win you’ll ever have in your career. You suffer the whole time and you get done and you don’t even know if you won! So what’s the point? I mean, you didn’t even get to see where you crushed somebody.

“The whole part I like about bike racing,” Horner continues with a spark more befitting of a 23-year-old neo-pro just feeling his racing oats than a 15-year professional veteran, “is you like watching the guy ride off of the back of your wheel and you like beating the guy across the line. You don’t get either of that with the time trial.”

I don't really have an opinion either way about that, I just find it interesting.

 

[The Hitch]

Great post, hitch. Every word of it.



Much less, if I recall. It was so, so very close for Armstrong. I, too, have always wondered what hinged on just a few fractions of a second on that fateful day of the TTT.

[Edit]
As I research that, I'd forgotten just how very, very close it was.
Wow. That would tend to keep one up at night.

One also has to wonder at might have happened had Levi not crashed out of that Tour with a broken wrist. All joking aside, he was firmly in the Armstrong camp and provided yet another ally for Lance as such. Not sure if it would've changed anything, but it would've reinforced Armstrong's psychologial edge, if nothing else. And then imagine if Horner <<relevant to this thread! >>had been selected for the Tour team?! Contador would've been outnumbered even further.

Iirc Horner wasn't selected precisely because contador feared he would have no allies on the team and wanted one so they let him have - 1 rider, Paulinho, and left Horner out. Though surely he would have been a better pick for Armstrong than rast.

 

[Master50]

The fish rots from the head. Tell me Hein Verbruggen was not corrupt for 14 years or that the following 7 with McQuaid was not corrupt.

You may have timed riders correctly, but the riders were doped and easily avoiding detection from dope tests.

What have you done from the inside to oust the Verbruggen and McQuaids from 21 years of corruption. Pity your skin wasn't thinner and pushed you to do something about over 2 decades of this.

There were a lot more than LA, HG or TH out there cheating, take a look at http://dopeology.org/ and then get back to me that doping is not an endemic culture to the sport.

I dont need to prove Horner is a doper. Horner does a good job of that himself.

Do you ever look at hints any deeper than the surface? I can see you don't have any clue about how a UCI president is elected. I see you think we all should be able to read minds, foresee the future and control things we cannot. I work at city hall. What does that have to do with who the mayor is? He isn't even allowed to talk to me directly as I may not speak directly to the elected without a very hight level manager. Why? they are not my boss and only through a vote am I theirs. At the UCI I have a voice and no vote. I can vote for a Canadian President. who can vote at a continental congress who is only a delegate at the UCI congress because all of the Americas have only 6 or 7 votes in the UCI congress. Most of the political power in cycling on this side of the world is held in South America. The american congress was in Cuba I think just to PO the Americans who have 1 vote too.
Personally I never liked HV and he is definitely the OLD SCHOOL ruler elite. That said I met him once and I sat in his office chair when he was not in the building. I don't know if you remembered the election of PM? his only real rival in terms of votes was Amar Singh who had a great deal of influence in the Asian federation. Sylvia Shenck while refreshingly controversial never had enough support and I certainly had no vote or influence as to how Canada would vote. Sure I could call Brian but tell him how to vote? He had a much better appreciation of the politics in Cycling as I am really no politician.
As a Commissaire the idea that an English speaking president would be elected was very appealing. I have to say I thought it would be good for me especially since my French is less than functionally fluent. Unfortunately That turned out to be less beneficial than I hoped and he turned out to be OK at least at first. Even now I think most of the stink was made before he took office and certainly he did not rule the UCI at first. HV was still a very powerful man.
As for the things I can influence I did have a very pointed and vocal argument with a UCI president of BMX here when the world championships were here. I paid a price for that but I'd do it again because he was wrong in this one. I was eventually vindicated because it turned out the guy he was defending turned out to be a thief. Oh lucky me.

What about you? you seem to be pleased to tell me I should have fought the law.
Do you have a licence? do you support a club? are you involved with the politics in your district? do you go to tell your district rep to fight doping and get CH out of the sport? What are you doing beside standing on soap boxes and telling us what to believe and accusing a lot of people i doubt you know. You claim to know of all sorts of things from cheating to influence peddling and outright corruption.
I think we all get that the sport has a history and that it probably always will have some doping. I might agree the peloton will never be pure but I can also believe the peloton will never be all dirty.
My thing is everything I do demands due process and that is my inclination anyway. It is the system I worked within both in cycling and in my work. I had a commissaires licence from 1986 until 2011 and I am still a general member.
Questioning my work and actions does not increase your credibility but maybe if you tell us what you are doing beside making accusations and pointing fingers on this forum?
How about it? a little selfie so we all know how you are helping it get better or at least not get worse? Did you write CH a letter asking him to come clean? Did you make sure to vote for the district rep that will get Steve Johnson out of USA Cycling? tell ME. I would be grateful to hear you are doing something positive because right now you only make me angry and I'd rather respect your opinion than what I think of it now. Try something positive like a new Avatar. Interesting you identify with a mythical super villain.

 

[TrackCynic]

Tell me who is the district rep in NCNCA who would get Steve Johnson and his cronies out and I would vote for him. This is the basic problem - those of us involved in the sport have no real say. It's not a democracy, it's a business. It's Weisel's business.

 

[Master50]

Tell me who is the district rep in NCNCA who would get Steve Johnson and his cronies out and I would vote for him. This is the basic problem - those of us involved in the sport have no real say. It's not a democracy, it's a business. It's Weisel's business.

I guess sometimes the only way to make a change is from the inside but generally that is the place of politicians. yOu know the guy that told us what we want to hear and we believe he will do it. Sport is a business and unfortuneatly not always run with respect to the fans.

 

[Berzin]

Hitch-there's no guarantee that Armstrong would have been able to fight off the Schleck brothers, even if he had managed to take the jersey earlier in the race.

If one of the Schleck brothers would have attacked during a mountain stage, I don't think Armstrong by himself would have been able to counter any of their moves unless he had Contador as an ally, which he most certainly did not.

And if one of the Schlecks would have attacked Armstrong in the yellow jersey and Contador was sent up to counter, the time lost by Armstrong would have assured Contador another opportunity to go for the win himself.

Armstrong only showed a semblance of his former strength on Ventoux, and all he was able to do was hang on. He wasn't able to dictate the pace at any moment in the race.

Even during the flat stage where the echelon formed and Armstrong found himself in the first group, all he could do was attempt to summon his former teammate Hincapie to get High Road to ride for him, which was a BS move by a rider who thought he could still order people around.

He stated in "The Armstrong Lie" that when he was in that particular break, he was "calling in favors" to get riders from other teams to ride for him. I thought to myself "what favors?". Is he crazy? His delusion knows no bounds, that's for sure.

 

[Fatclimber]

If one of the Schleck brothers would have attacked during a mountain stage, I don't think Armstrong by himself would have been able to counter any of their moves unless he had Contador as an ally, which he most certainly did not.

And if one of the Schlecks would have attacked Armstrong ...

That's kind of funny. The Schleck's tactics vs. Armstrong's weakness would have been a dead even battle if you ask me.

 

[cocteau_ireland]

Do you ever look at hints any deeper than the surface? I can see you don't have any clue about how a UCI president is elected. I see you think we all should be able to read minds, foresee the future and control things we cannot. I work at city hall. What does that have to do with who the mayor is? He isn't even allowed to talk to me directly as I may not speak directly to the elected without a very hight level manager. Why? they are not my boss and only through a vote am I theirs. At the UCI I have a voice and no vote. I can vote for a Canadian President. who can vote at a continental congress who is only a delegate at the UCI congress because all of the Americas have only 6 or 7 votes in the UCI congress. Most of the political power in cycling on this side of the world is held in South America. The american congress was in Cuba I think just to PO the Americans who have 1 vote too.
Personally I never liked HV and he is definitely the OLD SCHOOL ruler elite. That said I met him once and I sat in his office chair when he was not in the building. I don't know if you remembered the election of PM? his only real rival in terms of votes was Amar Singh who had a great deal of influence in the Asian federation. Sylvia Shenck while refreshingly controversial never had enough support and I certainly had no vote or influence as to how Canada would vote. Sure I could call Brian but tell him how to vote? He had a much better appreciation of the politics in Cycling as I am really no politician.
As a Commissaire the idea that an English speaking president would be elected was very appealing. I have to say I thought it would be good for me especially since my French is less than functionally fluent. Unfortunately That turned out to be less beneficial than I hoped and he turned out to be OK at least at first. Even now I think most of the stink was made before he took office and certainly he did not rule the UCI at first. HV was still a very powerful man.
As for the things I can influence I did have a very pointed and vocal argument with a UCI president of BMX here when the world championships were here. I paid a price for that but I'd do it again because he was wrong in this one. I was eventually vindicated because it turned out the guy he was defending turned out to be a thief. Oh lucky me.

What about you? you seem to be pleased to tell me I should have fought the law.
Do you have a licence? do you support a club? are you involved with the politics in your district? do you go to tell your district rep to fight doping and get CH out of the sport? What are you doing beside standing on soap boxes and telling us what to believe and accusing a lot of people i doubt you know. You claim to know of all sorts of things from cheating to influence peddling and outright corruption.
I think we all get that the sport has a history and that it probably always will have some doping. I might agree the peloton will never be pure but I can also believe the peloton will never be all dirty.
My thing is everything I do demands due process and that is my inclination anyway. It is the system I worked within both in cycling and in my work. I had a commissaires licence from 1986 until 2011 and I am still a general member.
Questioning my work and actions does not increase your credibility but maybe if you tell us what you are doing beside making accusations and pointing fingers on this forum?
How about it? a little selfie so we all know how you are helping it get better or at least not get worse? Did you write CH a letter asking him to come clean? Did you make sure to vote for the district rep that will get Steve Johnson out of USA Cycling? tell ME. I would be grateful to hear you are doing something positive because right now you only make me angry and I'd rather respect your opinion than what I think of it now. Try something positive like a new Avatar. Interesting you identify with a mythical super villain.

Very good post

 

[BigMac]

It seems that poor Chris is in hospital after a training accident today, near Lake Como. Broke four ribs and punctured one of his lungs.

#nogiro

 

[red_flanders]

It seems that poor Chris is in hospital after a training accident today, near Lake Como. Broke four ribs and punctured one of his lungs.

#nogiro

HORRIBLE. Really sorry to hear that.

<jerk mode>I guess we now (finally) have the "smackdown".</jerk mode>

In all seriousness I hope he's OK and that is really a shame. Best to Chris on his recovery.

 

[Benotti69]

It seems that poor Chris is in hospital after a training accident today, near Lake Como. Broke four ribs and punctured one of his lungs.

#nogiro

Lake Como, near Ferrari for trianing plans.

Get well soon Horner, the sport needs 42 year olds ripping up GT form books

 

[the sceptic]

HORRIBLE. Really sorry to hear that.

<jerk mode>I guess we now (finally) have the "smackdown".</jerk mode>

In all seriousness I hope he's OK and that is really a shame. Best to Chris on his recovery.

Wouldnt it be a shame if he had to skip the giro and focus on the tour instead...

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Concussion
Blood clot
Punctured lung
Botched knees
Broken bones

Poor Horner, I think its time to give the old body a rest.

 

[doperhopper]

Lake Como, near Ferrari for trianing plans.

Get well soon Horner, the sport needs 42 year olds ripping up GT form books

went to the hospital, ended in The Clinic

 

[TourOfSardinia]

went to the hospital, ended in The Clinic

This guy suffers for his art!

 

[red_flanders]

Wouldnt it be a shame if he had to skip the giro and focus on the tour instead...

OOOOOOHHH!!!! Great call. Pleasepleaseplease....

 

[robow7]

Say what you will but this poor guy has taken a beating over his career. Hope he's up and riding shortly.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

I guess that´s it. Finito. May he´ll do a George Foreman in 3 years, but for now I don´t see him back. Not even Superman can ride on no legs... or can he?

 

[Clausfarre]

That's a shame. I was honestly looking for another 'silly' result from Horner to follow up last year's adventure. I don't know if it's possible to recover from those injures before any and all GTs but best of luck to ol' man Chris.

 

[blackcat]

cookie monster get him back on the bike quick smart please, we want form peaking for this week in tour in july, there is still time