When is the smackdown on Chris Horner?

[proffate]

so CH's 2010 was better than 2013... either CQ ranking isn't that accurate or 2013 wasn't as much of an outlier as it's made out to be.

CH won everything in the US for many years but it barely shows up on that chart. Racing in the US isn't highly valued in CQ points. So using the data from all the years he was racing domestically doesn't really add anything to the discussion.

 

[roundabout]

so CH's 2010 was better than 2013... either CQ ranking isn't that accurate or 2013 wasn't as much of an outlier as it's made out to be.

CH won everything in the US for many years but it barely shows up on that chart. Racing in the US isn't highly valued in CQ points. So using the data from all the years he was racing domestically doesn't really add anything to the discussion.

35 racing days in 2013 and 68 days in 2010.

And how high should redlands or sea otter be really valued?

63 points in 1999 do say it all though.

 

[MacRoadie]

And how high should redlands or sea otter be really valued?.

Hey, show Redlands some respect! Six laps on Sunset Loop beats three on the Cauberg any day, right?

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Hey, show Redlands some respect! Six laps on Sunset Loop beats three on the Cauberg any day, right?

R.E.S.P.E.C.T. to the Redlands, and the former winner there, Chris Horner. What could have been if there was no doping in europe... CH is stolen a career of at least 20 GT wins. He should be billionaire now...

 

[BYOP88]

R.E.S.P.E.C.T. to the Redlands, and the former winner there, Chris Horner. What could have been if there was no doping in europe... CH is stolen a career of at least 20 GT wins. He should be billionaire now...

If only he'd won the Automatic Jock Strap Race! Then I'm guessing you'd have no problem believing in Horner.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

35 racing days in 2013 and 68 days in 2010.

And how high should redlands or sea otter be really valued?

63 points in 1999 do say it all though.

Yeah. Some don´t see the obvious. May next time you bring up stats that everybody can understand easily. Like Points per race day...

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

If only he'd won the Automatic Jock Strap Race! Then I'm guessing you'd have no problem believing in Horner.

I am not going to engage in another thread hi-jack.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Grand Pappy's Got a Book!!

It will be interesting to see if this ever gets moved to the fiction shelf


http://velonews.competitor.com/2014/05/training-center/skills/book-excerpt-shed-wheelsucker_325903

Veloclinic's comment is excellent:
http://veloclinic.tumblr.com/post/84488621073/part-2-visualize-dropping-the-wheel-sucker

 

[proffate]

Unlike Dan Martin, Chris Horner knows how to race crits. He spent a number of years in the US where the entire domestic peloton was sucking his wheel, so he's probably something of an authority on how to shake them... Cancellara should ask for lessons.

 

[The Hitch]

In case anyone is looking for an avatar

 

[ebandit]

can

we can avoid detection by never again being competitive

Mark L

 

[thehog]

Interesting quote:

“We’ve always known that Chris is unbelievable at recovery, perhaps it’s because of all the crashes he’s had but seriously he’s great at recovery. I didn't expect it to be so quick. The biggest problem are the ribs and if he crashes again. That’s our biggest concern at the moment, but he’s coming on and his condition is getting better and better each day.”

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/chris-horner-could-return-to-racing-at-tour-de-suisse

 

[the sceptic]

“At the moment we’re thinking about bringing him in for the start of the Tour de Suisse in order to see what his condition is like. Then we’ll look at the possibility of Chris riding the Tour de France.”

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

The best argument I can make in favour of Horner being not the most dirty rider in the dirty history of cycling, is that his transformation was so grotesque over the years (from non contract, never being considered for a GT before age 34 to become the oldest GT winner by far) that it can't be explained by blood/Epo doping only, if you're to believe Mr Vaughters doping these days provides only a marginal boost if you're to have any chance of beating the tests.* Thus there must be something into that new approach of riding less, but if riding, doing it on one leg out of the saddle to save energy**. Given the facts of having only 16 race days so far, Horner shall have no problems to win the TdF by a good margin. Everything else would be an underachievement for the greatest ever.

* I don't believe that but it's the best I can come up with in Horners defence.

** Hope the sarcasm gets trou, since riding uphill constantly out of the saddle to save energy is a contradiction in itself...

 

[darwin553]

Obviously skipping the tour de suisse to get a guaranteed podium at the TdF

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

Obviously skipping the tour de suisse to get a guaranteed podium at the TdF

would love a podium

 

[staubsauger]

It's simply. Horner May have access to the good preparation stuff for the first time during his career.

Of course he is doped and his body seems to respond very well to Aicar. But he surely should have a lot of talent and pure talent anyway. There's no way he should be able to perform that way even doped.

I begin to believe that Horner was always a more talented climber than a joke like Basso was.

But we will never find out.

In the end it's just so ****ing ironic seeing this lovely grandpa winning races, while all these hypocrites are talking bull**** about the new clean era.

Great show, great entertainment.

 

[Fortyninefourteen]

Interesting quote:



http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/chris-horner-could-return-to-racing-at-tour-de-suisse

Hair Club for Men.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

It's simply. Horner May have access to the good preparation stuff for the first time during his career.

Of course he is doped and his body seems to respond very well to Aicar. But he surely should have a lot of talent and pure talent anyway. There's no way he should be able to perform that way even doped.

I begin to believe that Horner was always a more talented climber than a joke like Basso was.

But we will never find out.

In the end it's just so ****ing ironic seeing this lovely grandpa winning races, while all these hypocrites are talking bull**** about the new clean era.

Great show, great entertainment.

Ok, assume Horner is a great talent (even better than Basso for example). How do you explain that Horner could not keep up with undoped riders (for the cynics: certainly the cleaner ones in the era. We have yet to hear any rumour about them being on those crazy team wide programs that existed back then) in the dark era as for example Moncoutie and Casar.
How do you explain that he gave his best performances (w/kg, or looking solely at climbing times) at age 41, not in his 20s as everybody else did (yes even the mega dopers of their time couldn

 

[GuyIncognito]

Ok, assume Horner is a great talent (even better than Basso for example)

Not a difficult assumption. Aldo Sassi's verdict on Basso was 'he's not a natural talent, but he just works so hard'

(He was comparing Basso to Evans who he also coached, and explaining why he thinks Basso deserves more praise)

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

My point was an other one. So let me try again:

Let me change the example and get right to what Horner must be, if he won the Vuelta clean(ish).

We then must assume that Horner is the greatest talent ever (even better than clinic hero Greg Lemond) who was unlucky until his mid 30s because he learned to ride a bike just by then.

If this is not exactly the case, how do we, or "Staubsauger" for example, explain that Horner could not keep up with undoped riders like Moncoutie or Casar (for the cynics: certainly the cleaner ones in that era. We have yet to hear any rumour about them being on those crazy team wide programs that existed).

How can any of us explain that he has his best performances (W/Kg, or looking solely at climbing times) happened at age 41, but not in his mid 20s like everybody else (yes even the mega dopers of their time couldn

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

My point was an other one. So let me try again:

Let me change the example and get right to what Horner must be, if he won the Vuelta clean(ish).

We then must assume that Horner is the greatest talent ever (even better than clinic hero Greg Lemond) who was unlucky until his mid 30s because he learned to ride a bike just by then.

If this is not exactly the case, how do we, or "Staubsauger" for example, explain that Horner could not keep up with undoped riders like Moncoutie or Casar (for the cynics: certainly the cleaner ones in that era. We have yet to hear any rumour about them being on those crazy team wide programs that existed).

How can any of us explain that he has his best performances (W/Kg, or looking solely at climbing times) happened at age 41, but not in his mid 20s like everybody else (yes even the mega dopers of their time...

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

What the phuck is wrong on here? Only 1/3 of posts getting trou...

 

[Master50]

My point was an other one. So let me try again:

Let me change the example and get right to what Horner must be, if he won the Vuelta clean(ish).

We then must assume that Horner is the greatest talent ever (even better than clinic hero Greg Lemond) who was unlucky until his mid 30s because he learned to ride a bike just by then.

If this is not exactly the case, how do we, or "Staubsauger" for example, explain that Horner could not keep up with undoped riders like Moncoutie or Casar (for the cynics: certainly the cleaner ones in that era. We have yet to hear any rumour about them being on those crazy team wide programs that existed).

How can any of us explain that he has his best performances (W/Kg, or looking solely at climbing times) happened at age 41, but not in his mid 20s like everybody else (yes even the mega dopers of their time...

How can you compare just about anything from the early days of the millennium to today. The talent was so skewed by doping that a normal base line did not exist. No one seems to bother analyzing his American performances like up Brasstown bald in the tour of Georgia as an example. His dominance of American racing seems to be lost on everyone. Be careful to dismiss the talents of American riders. Now I appreciate the American peloton was not clean either but the support for doping was not like in Europe. Most doping seemed to be individual or at least very small circles of doping friends. Chris goes to Europe and has trouble. returns to America and does well. Europe was on boost but America was on some more normal distribution of cheaters. Of course in my context you have to accept the peloton is mostly clean now. Even if you believe that doping is still ubiquitous the throttle has been turned down a lot. The Bio Passport has certainly lowered the boost.
If in fact Chris is doping, what is he taking that gives him some unnatural late in life talent? If he is relatively talentless then he has to be so boosted it would just show. I am sure that some anti doping organization is just as cynical and would love to catch him if he is cheating.

 

[DirtyWorks]

His dominance of American racing seems to be lost on everyone. Be careful to dismiss the talents of American riders.

I think it would be fair to say that being an excellent continental pro in most countries does not equate to WT/grand tour winning.

Europe was on boost but America was on some more normal distribution of cheaters.

I'd argue a lack of depth in the U.S. compared to many cycling countries easily explains Horner's American performances. The U.S. federation does not develop for depth and never apparently "liked" Horner. Thom likes to pick a few potential winners he likes, sees how they go, and lets the rest starve.