When is the smackdown on Chris Horner?

[DirtyWorks]

Obviously skipping the tour de suisse to get a guaranteed podium at the TdF

I am SO looking forward to this.

Not racing is the new peaking.

 

[noddy69]

How can you compare just about anything from the early days of the millennium to today. The talent was so skewed by doping that a normal base line did not exist. No one seems to bother analyzing his American performances like up Brasstown bald in the tour of Georgia as an example. His dominance of American racing seems to be lost on everyone. Be careful to dismiss the talents of American riders. Now I appreciate the American peloton was not clean either but the support for doping was not like in Europe. Most doping seemed to be individual or at least very small circles of doping friends. Chris goes to Europe and has trouble. returns to America and does well. Europe was on boost but America was on some more normal distribution of cheaters. Of course in my context you have to accept the peloton is mostly clean now. Even if you believe that doping is still ubiquitous the throttle has been turned down a lot. The Bio Passport has certainly lowered the boost.
If in fact Chris is doping, what is he taking that gives him some unnatural late in life talent? If he is relatively talentless then he has to be so boosted it would just show. I am sure that some anti doping organization is just as cynical and would love to catch him if he is cheating.

When you accept the throttle does not get turned down this gets easier and in cyclings grandest stage, much like athletics , if you don't dope you don't win...think about it, you are really trying to suggest a 41 year old beats every top level in their prime cyclist in the vuelta, one of the most physically tough events anywhere on bread and water. Over one day on a mountain stage he would have to be lucky, physically no matter how you look at it and no matter how talented he was its a no go........really just think about it properly and the realisation will come.

 

[Master50]

I think it would be fair to say that being an excellent continental pro in most countries does not equate to WT/grand tour winning.



I'd argue a lack of depth in the U.S. compared to many cycling countries easily explains Horner's American performances. The U.S. federation does not develop for depth and never apparently "liked" Horner. Thom likes to pick a few potential winners he likes, sees how they go, and lets the rest starve.

You know we N Americans have an inferiority complex and I understand it too.
North American racing is %99 amateur and that includes most continental "pro teams" Why do I say amateur? because the racing is still set up for short events 140 to 160 Km.. Very few 200 km days on this side of the pond. Cycling is relatively shallow talent pool but it certainly has been true some world class bikers come from the US. 7 eleven had a horrible time of it at first and not because they were not talented, they were hover grossly inexperienced. When judging the talent of a north America rider against a euro it was hugely difficult to compare abilities.
Local talents like Ryder and Roland clearly were on another stair locally but without some Euro racing it was hard to tell how high the stair was? In this context I agree we have a hard time telling how good our riders are.
Add the problems of EPO and now things are so distorted that it looks like our riders are even more talentless.
I come from A country where Hockey is by far the most followed sport and we produce a fantastic number of NHL players but the distribution of people able to match the athletic performances is probably the same even in Africa but I would agree the first African NHL star will be a big deal especially if he is of colour. Sorry to put a racial twist but hey as rare as ice hockey or even ice is it is rare even in Canada to see as much participation of certain ethnic groups.
Back to CH. I admit my analysis of his talent is based on him being a clean rider and recognizing the correlation in Europe to the darkest days of doping in cycling. I think EPO use was not constant but at any event the teams with the greatest stake were likely over the line and just about anyone at the tour was in some way assisted, not everyone just more than any other race. Some teams would emphasize the spring races like PR where some teams dominated to the tour where LA was cheating and likely every tour winner since Lemond if you accept he was clean, (I do).
During this time really talented riders that were clean were probably racing as support riders instead of leaders and the less talented were doping just to get a contract,
So I think CH was clean when he went to Europe the first time. recognized there was a real problem here and maybe even had doubts about his ability. Went back to the US where he was again a top dog and enjoyed the better salaries he was earning at home. As the Euros face bio passport I am sure they recognized that cheating had to look more like normal and as such it just had to dial back.
Even for those that are crossing the line the boost has to be managed a lot closer to a riders best natural days and by no means are there as many donkeys with race horse results. In this atmosphere it becomes manageable to race clean and often with good results. contracts get signed and the demand to dope is lowered. At least for the better riders.
Through the entire doping debate no one seems to be able to explain how in light of lower HC limits and the bio passport that the performances we are seeing are unnatural? That said at least 1 rider in this Giro had me wondering. Not because of how fast he climbed on that day but from how far out he went. So many mountain finishes the attacks come so much closer to the finish line than 10 years ago.

 

[thehog]

Lampre-Merida long list for the Tour de France: Rui Costa, Chris Horner, Sacha Modolo, José Serpa, Nelson Oliveira, Kristijan Ðurasek, Rafael Valls, Matteo Bono, Filippo Pozzato, Maximiliano Richeze and Davide Cimolai.

Looks like Horner could make the Tour?!

 

[DirtyWorks]

Through the entire doping debate no one seems to be able to explain how in light of lower HC limits and the bio passport that the performances we are seeing are unnatural?

The UCI ignores positives. We have ample evidence of this stretching back years now and Chris Horner is one more example.

Horner even provided his blood data for all to analyze knowing full well what it showed and apparently knowing the UCI would not open a case.

Wait, don't tell me, that's not "proof."

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Looks like Horner could make the Tour?!

If the Horndog podiums or wins it, we won't see the forums for a month at least. The clinic would explode.

 

[Tinman]

It will destroy Brian's fragile reputation with the cycling public. He better do something quick.

 

[thehog]

If the Horndog podiums or wins it, we won't see the forums for a month at least. The clinic would explode.

I know. And he's barely raced all season. So if he comes out and kills everyone then, yes, he will kill the Clinic.

 

[the sceptic]

I know. And he's barely raced all season. So if he comes out and kills everyone then, yes, he will kill the Clinic.

V

N: We like to write about how you’re “old,” at least compared to the others. Are you feeling old? Or are you as spritely as ever?

CH: I really only feel my age when I first wake up in the morning. Then I can feel every kilometer and every race of the past 25 years. But once I’m up and moving, it all melts away. And once the race starts, I feel like I’m still 25 and excited to be there. Being in the race never gets old and is always a great feeling.

Read more at http://velonews.competitor.com/2014...eling-25-sometimes_334116#2hU38s2y0gX6gkHV.99

Gotta love pro cycling. Forza Horner, beat the horse!

 

[DirtyWorks]

I know. And he's barely raced all season.

Haven't we all learned by now that racing is no longer necessary to win races?

Just showing up and putting the power down that the rider got from doing hill repeats and whatnot is all that's needed.

 

[Coat-O]

I know. And he's barely raced all season. So if he comes out and kills everyone then, yes, he will kill the Clinic.

Heads will explode all over the clinic. If he drops Froome on Hautacam, I'll donate one of my testicles to Armstrong in a blood bag.

 

[doperhopper]

Haven't we all learned by now that racing is no longer necessary to win races?

Just showing up and putting the power down that the rider got from doing hill repeats and whatnot is all that's needed.

Do they actually need to go on the road? How about virtual Tour, everyone on his stationary bike trainer simulating the hills should do the job (yet, Andy would still crash on the descent).

 

[ChewbaccaD]

And this will be me:

 

[SeriousSam]

Heads will explode all over the clinic. If he drops Froome on Hautacam, I'll donate one of my testicles to Armstrong in a blood bag.

lol

It would seriously be the greatest moment in sports history if Horner pulls a Riis and just annihilates everyone at the Hautacam.

 

[Coat-O]

lol

It would seriously be the greatest moment in sports history if Horner pulls a Riis and just annihilates everyone at the Hautacam.

 

[yespatterns]

That would be funny, but i doubt it will happen. Horner and Purito both are probably still in recovery mode. If the old man does appear to be destroying the feild, just stock up on your favorite tumblr pages and cross your fingers that the interwebs arent completely destroyed.

 

[Samson777]

That would be funny, but i doubt it will happen. Horner and Purito both are probably still in recovery mode. If the old man does appear to be destroying the feild, just stock up on your favorite tumblr pages and cross your fingers that the interwebs arent completely destroyed.

I take it you didn't watch the Vuelta.. Horner in recovery mode is like a mad Darth Vader. Destroying everything that get's in his way.

 

[darwin553]

For some reason the movie "Batman Begins" comes to my mind looking at this gif and thinking about Horner - something about that journey Bruce Wayne/Christian Bale goes on in the Himalayas to train to be able to fight again. I feel the same way about Horner being rolled out to compete in this solitary race

 

[DirtyWorks]

That would be funny, but i doubt it will happen. Horner and Purito both are probably still in recovery mode. If the old man does appear to be destroying the feild, just stock up on your favorite tumblr pages and cross your fingers that the interwebs arent completely destroyed.

http://www.procyclingstats.com/race/Tour_de_Slovenie_2014

Are you kidding? Two minutes out from a second-tier team rider. He'll be blasting away on HC climbs Contador and Froome nearby.

Not racing and then winning a grand tour is the new normal.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Yep, it would be stupid not to go all in. Without results his current contract is borderline worthless and he ain't getting another one without bringing the points.

I see him climbing with the best, perhaps dropping a couple of contenders here and there.

 

[Race Radio]

Will Frischkorn

http://www.theouterline.com/perspectives-on-doping-in-pro-cycling-3-will-frischkorn/

Frischkorn tells of one older rider – still active in the professional peloton – who essentially explained to him the ropes of EPO usage; where to buy it, how to store it, and how to use it.

Will might not say his name but I will, it was Chris Horner.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Yep, it would be stupid not to go all in. Without results his current contract is borderline worthless and he ain't getting another one without bringing the points.

I see him climbing with the best, perhaps dropping a couple of contenders here and there.

Yep, at this point, Horner might as well go all in. The only thing he risks is an announcing or team director contract. Given his clean record, he's likely to go to Sky as a DS.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Will Frischkorn

http://www.theouterline.com/perspectives-on-doping-in-pro-cycling-3-will-frischkorn/



Will might not say his name but I will, it was Chris Horner.

You aren't the only one.

http://stevetilford.com/2013/10/24/unbelievable-chris-horner/ He's a charger, but a nice guy.

I recall Matt DeCanio naming names a long time ago calling out Horner.

Here's a long, rambling, post from a long time ago that, fits pretty well with we've come to learn later. http://ccforums.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=2992

Same link mentioned here and some additional stuff too: http://velorooms.com/index.php?topic=3883.90

Doping is so prevalent because the UCI never put the brakes on the guy. Every other racer looks around and sees chargers winning grand tours and other chargers blacklisted. Why not take the chance?

 

[thehog]

You aren't the only one.

http://stevetilford.com/2013/10/24/unbelievable-chris-horner/ He's a charger, but a nice guy.

I recall Matt DeCanio naming names a long time ago calling out Horner.

Here's a long, rambling, post from a long time ago that, fits pretty well with we've come to learn later. http://ccforums.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=2992

Same link mentioned here and some additional stuff too: http://velorooms.com/index.php?topic=3883.90

Doping is so prevalent because the UCI never put the brakes on the guy. Every other racer looks around and sees chargers winning grand tours and other chargers blacklisted. Why not take the chance?

DeCanio actually called out Vaughters. He showed Matt how to use EPO and to avoid detection.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Either way, Horner will have no results at this TdF. If he goes all in again... well, the french will get him, whatever results are "achieved" will be nullified.
But if he keeps things low and inside parameters, he´ll be on the same level as everybody else, only 134 years older than them. Thus he will finish in the middle of nowhere. Where he belongs to. This is not the murky Vuelta with murky winners like Cobo and Horner...