When is the smackdown on Chris Horner?

[del1962]

The UCI conduct tests during the race...

Any samples collected by the AEA would have been analysed in Madrid...

That will be the Lab that had a 3 month suspension

 

[B_Ugli]

How did the AEA screw up? By leaking the info, I suppose, if it was them who did it, but I suspect that's not what you guys are getting at.

What I am getting at is that Spain have a consistently haphazard and lapse attitude towards doping of both Spanish and non Spanish riders within and outside of Spain.

Its almost like watching Laurel & Hardy try and conduct a credible and reliable drugs testing regime.

In fact I take that last sentence back, Laurel & Hardy would probably do a better job.

 

[Ferminal]

That will be the Lab that had a 3 month suspension

That would be the lab which is approved by WADA. Why would USADA ask for a test if they knew it had to be tested locally (which in your interpretation they wouldn't trust), unless they were going to pay for a seat on a plane to send it to Colorado? Occasionally the UCI doesn't always go to the nearest lab but of course the NADOs will use their local ones.

 

[GreasyMonkey]

What I am getting at is that Spain have a consistently haphazard and lapse attitude towards doping of both Spanish and non Spanish riders within and outside of Spain.

Its almost like watching Laurel & Hardy try and conduct a credible and reliable drugs testing regime.

In fact I take that last sentence back, Laurel & Hardy would probably do a better job.

You're completely off-target with your comment about USADA needing to send in testers because the Spanish did not do their job properly.

NO anti-doping agency can test riders during UCI GT's, as the UCI has sole and total testing authority, as well as results management in these events.

 

[GreasyMonkey]

Something is "fishy"....

This whole saga of the "missing little Jack Horner" is starting to smell distinctly rotten.

From El Pais.... http://elpais.com/elpais/2013/09/16/inenglish/1379359771_845932.html

Two days previously, the American Anti-Doping Agency (USADA) had asked its Spanish counterpart to take blood and urine samples due to suspicions raised by the cyclist’s biological passport. However, when anti-doping agents from the Spanish Agency for the Protection of Health in Sport (AEPSAD) arrived at RadioShack’s hotel in Madrid, Horner was nowhere to be found. Neither could his teammates or manager provide the right answer.

A team doctor said that Horner was in a different hotel closer to the airport with his wife, but the AEPSAD agents left the second hotel empty-handed. RadioShack said that Horner had provided his location to USADA and presented a screenshot of a confirmation email: “Hello. The Vuelta finished today, September 15, in Madrid, and I will fly back to my home in Bend, Oregon on the 16th. I will be staying at the Hotel Ciudad de Móstoles, room 314. I will be locatable there between six and seven in the morning.”

So he would appear to have provided the information to the team prior to the drug testers arriving at the team hotel on AM 16th, yet they did not know where he was, and a Team Doctor was so smart as to send them on a wild-goose chase in the opposite direction (Móstoles is south-west of Madrid, the Airport is North-East, 30km apart......) to where he stated he was going to be in his e-mail.

Looks like RadioShack was doing a job of trying to cover his location from the testers, but they got caught - How about giving their management a "holiday" for the rest of the season for that fail....

 

[ElChingon]

As I said on the power data thread, his own wiki page updated only yesterday lists him at 63.5kg

No, it was not:

Ref: http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.php?p=1341955&postcount=2150

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

Looks like RadioShack was doing a job of trying to cover his location from the testers, but they got caught - How about giving their management a "holiday" for the rest of the season for that fail....

If anyone is going to get a "holiday" for this, it will be someone at USADA for not anticipating a late - though entirely legitimate and properly reported - change of "Whereabouts" from Horner. USADA asked the Spanish to test Horner so the onus was on them to tell the Spaniards where he was going to be.

Horner and Radioshack may well have been "playing silly b*ggers", but if USADA had kept their eye on the ball then none of that would have mattered.

 

[sniper]

No, it was not:

Ref: http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.php?p=1341955&postcount=2150

i don't think it was either.
his personal(?) website has 140lbs and that probably goes back a while.
140lbs=63.5kg

http://www.chrishornerracing.com/bio/

 

[Poursuivant]

Nibali says that, but vetoo had Nibali down as 5.8 for the Giro and Horner 5.9 for the Vuelta.

Now given that Nibali- take away the tt and the ttt lost about 2 minutes to Horner in the mountains, is that going to be lower than his 5.8 from the Giro?

This whole saga of the "missing little Jack Horner" is starting to smell distinctly rotten.

From El Pais.... http://elpais.com/elpais/2013/09/16/inenglish/1379359771_845932.html

Two days previously, the American Anti-Doping Agency (USADA) had asked its Spanish counterpart to take blood and urine samples due to suspicions raised by the cyclist’s biological passport. However, when anti-doping agents from the Spanish Agency for the Protection of Health in Sport (AEPSAD) arrived at RadioShack’s hotel in Madrid, Horner was nowhere to be found. Neither could his teammates or manager provide the right answer.

A team doctor said that Horner was in a different hotel closer to the airport with his wife, but the AEPSAD agents left the second hotel empty-handed. RadioShack said that Horner had provided his location to USADA and presented a screenshot of a confirmation email: “Hello. The Vuelta finished today, September 15, in Madrid, and I will fly back to my home in Bend, Oregon on the 16th. I will be staying at the Hotel Ciudad de Móstoles, room 314. I will be locatable there between six and seven in the morning.”

So he would appear to have provided the information to the team prior to the drug testers arriving at the team hotel on AM 16th, yet they did not know where he was, and a Team Doctor was so smart as to send them on a wild-goose chase in the opposite direction (Móstoles is south-west of Madrid, the Airport is North-East, 30km apart......) to where he stated he was going to be in his e-mail.

Looks like RadioShack was doing a job of trying to cover his location from the testers, but they got caught - How about giving their management a "holiday" for the rest of the season for that fail....

I am intrigued that USADA are suspicious of Horner's biological passport.

 

[Merckx index]

I don’t understand why some posters are continuing to argue that the weak field in the Vuelta is relevant. Yes, it was weak, but what difference does that make when we have power numbers? Horner could have finished 25th, and if he still had the numbers that have been published, he would be just as suspicious.

If someone wants to argue that his power values are not suspicious, that it’s reasonable for someone his age to put out that level of power, fine, make that argument. But please dispense with the weak competition argument. It’s a red herring. The only thing reference to guys like Valverde and J-Rod accomplishes is to suggest that they’re suspicious, too, which is hardly an earth-shaking revelation. I don’t think any Horner critics here are implying that a doped Horner beat a clean field.

The VN article notes that Horner put out 425 watts for Cabarga, and calls that “reasonable”. Really? Even assuming the 65 kg weight is correct, and there’s good reason to be suspicious of that, that works out to about 6.55 watts/g. That is reasonable? Not to mention that if his weight were 62 kg, the value becomes 6.85 watts/kg.

Vayer is quoted in the article as saying that if Horner weighed 65 kg, his power values are “safe”, i.e., consistent with being clean. But it’s unclear to me whether he’s referring to the Cabarga climb or Hallazanas (Stage 10), where his power was 393 watts for about the same length of time. Vayer found that value highly suspicious, so I don’t see how he wouldn’t find a much higher value up the Cabarga even more suspicious.

 

[Bobito]

I don’t understand why some posters are continuing to argue that the weak field in the Vuelta is relevant. Yes, it was weak, but what difference does that make when we have power numbers? Horner could have finished 25th, and if he still had the numbers that have been published, he would be just as suspicious.

If someone wants to argue that his power values are not suspicious, that it’s reasonable for someone his age to put out that level of power, fine, make that argument. But please dispense with the weak competition argument. It’s a red herring. The only thing reference to guys like Valverde and J-Rod accomplishes is to suggest that they’re suspicious, too, which is hardly an earth-shaking revelation. I don’t think any Horner critics here are implying that a doped Horner beat a clean field.

That he won at all at his age is simply incredible, in the old-fashioned sense of the word. No one should need power numbers to prove that a dog is a dog.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Horner presents a particularly thorny problem for cycling. Just as the UCI, certain managers, riders, etc. are trying to convince the sporting public that cycling has turned the clean corner, here comes Horner, age 41 and all, winning a Grand Tour.

So, if you're the establishment, you either defend him against a skeptical public and risk damaging the sport's credibility further, OR

you bust him somehow and risk having him spill the beans on everything.

 

[The Hitch]

I don’t think any Horner critics here are implying that a doped Horner beat a clean field.
.

The Froome fans are. Or at least many of them are on record saying that they think the sport has cleaned up and Nibali is clean.

 

[ruamruam]

Horner presents a particularly thorny problem for cycling. Just as the UCI, certain managers, riders, etc. are trying to convince the sporting public that cycling has turned the clean corner, here comes Horner, age 41 and all, winning a Grand Tour.

So, if you're the establishment, you either defend him against a skeptical public and risk damaging the sport's credibility further, OR

you bust him somehow and risk having him spill the beans on everything.

Or you put pressure on all teams not to hire him next year and hopes he goes away

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Or you put pressure on all teams not to hire him next year and hopes he goes away

Certainly a good possibility. Alonso's new team needs the points but not the bad publicity a high-profile positive would bring.

 

[ruamruam]

Certainly a good possibility. Alonso's new team needs the points but not the bad publicity a high-profile positive would bring.

The UCI could send out a subtle message to all teams, hire him and he will fail a dope test.

 

[Benotti69]

Or you put pressure on all teams not to hire him next year and hopes he goes away

With UCI presidency elections happening, who is putting the pressure on teams?

I guess Trek(radioshack) will keep him.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

The UCI could send out a subtle message to all teams, hire him and he will fail a dope test.

Problem is, if he fails a dope test, he invalidates the entire "clean cycling" mantra the UCI has been trying to sell.

Horner knows a lot, I think, and the UCI know it.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

I guess Trek(radioshack) will keep him.

I don't think he wants to pull for the Schlecks next year.

 

[Random Direction]

Chris gets busted when the name of rider 15 gets released. When does Johan have his hearing?

Oh yes, Travis controls that. Game, set, match.

 

[hrotha]

Chris gets busted when the name of rider 15 gets released. When does Johan have his hearing?

Oh yes, Travis controls that. Game, set, match.

Problem is, the allegations about Rider 15 go back to 2005. That's 8 years ago. Bat an eyelid, and the SOL is up.

 

[Juan Speeder]

The UCI could send out a subtle message to all teams, hire him and he will fail a dope test.

Doesn't that completely diminish the very point of a governing body, dope tests, and everything single this forum rails against?

Cheat in order to beat the cheaters.

Good call.

 

[kalmar11]

Senior member 131313 what are you thinking using a FBI drawing of the UNABOMBER????

Are you a complete idiot?

 

[peloton]

Nibali to be the 1st rider to win 2 GTs in the same season since Contador(who lost his wins for clen doping), nah don't bother giving it all.

Huh, Contador didn't lose those wins...

Horner beat a pretty high level peloton at this Vuelta and he did with a bit to spare.

This. Riding Angliru in the second fastest time in the 3rd week, after a very demanding route, seems normal for a 41 year old to recover better than riders decades younger than him.
Ridiculous.

 

[D-Queued]

This whole saga of the "missing little Jack Horner" is starting to smell distinctly rotten.

From El Pais.... http://elpais.com/elpais/2013/09/16/inenglish/1379359771_845932.html

Two days previously, the American Anti-Doping Agency (USADA) had asked its Spanish counterpart to take blood and urine samples due to suspicions raised by the cyclist’s biological passport. However, when anti-doping agents from the Spanish Agency for the Protection of Health in Sport (AEPSAD) arrived at RadioShack’s hotel in Madrid, Horner was nowhere to be found. Neither could his teammates or manager provide the right answer.

A team doctor said that Horner was in a different hotel closer to the airport with his wife, but the AEPSAD agents left the second hotel empty-handed. RadioShack said that Horner had provided his location to USADA and presented a screenshot of a confirmation email: “Hello. The Vuelta finished today, September 15, in Madrid, and I will fly back to my home in Bend, Oregon on the 16th. I will be staying at the Hotel Ciudad de Móstoles, room 314. I will be locatable there between six and seven in the morning.”

So he would appear to have provided the information to the team prior to the drug testers arriving at the team hotel on AM 16th, yet they did not know where he was, and a Team Doctor was so smart as to send them on a wild-goose chase in the opposite direction (Móstoles is south-west of Madrid, the Airport is North-East, 30km apart......) to where he stated he was going to be in his e-mail.

Looks like RadioShack was doing a job of trying to cover his location from the testers, but they got caught - How about giving their management a "holiday" for the rest of the season for that fail....

Agreed.

USADA may have let him off the hook, but RadioShack's protestations only make it look worse and more deliberate.

He just won a GT at 40+. If you were an ADA, wouldn't you want to test him as soon as possible? Or, at least as soon as he might have let his guard down?

In other words, right after the award ceremony?

If you were Horner, or his doctor, wouldn't you want to continue to stay one step ahead of the testers? If so, wouldn't you think the hotel change would be a good idea?

It is just way too convenient a scenario if Horner were doping.

You get to flush out any would-be ADA test.

Having flushed them out, you can test yourself and decide what kind of camouflage to deploy.

Beautiful.

Dave.