Where would you like to see Contador go?

[craig1985]

Yeh I know he speaks english (with his interpreter next to him to help).

But it's one thing to understand a language, but to understand how most english speaking people don't use correct language, is very difficult.

Example:

VDV: Hey Bertie, you ready to f-ck up lance in the mountains? let's hit it dawg..

AC: [In broken english] Um, Christian... I'm not really into guys that way, I have a lady friend. Is that what you did at Postal??... Why would I want to hit him like a dog, that's inhumane... you are wierd Christian.. Bradley, why is he talk like this?

BW: He's a douche-bag, that's why.. wanna go play cricket?

AC: What's a doou..che.. bag?? Why would I play with crickets.. I hate bugs, they mess with my allergies...

AC [thinking]: Man i should of chosen Caisse. These boys are into some freaky buritos

To this date, I have never heard Contador say a word in English. Flecha probably speaks the best English amongst the Spanish professionals.

 

[flicker]

I think Garmin

Alberto in pale blue Argyle.... just too sexy!

 

[Anonymous]

Caisse for national pride.

 

[Anonymous]

To this date, I have never heard Contador say a word in English. Flecha probably speaks the best English amongst the Spanish professionals.

there is a bbc interview where he replies in english, but there are gaps where obviously the interpreter has read the questions to him in spanish...

 

[Publicus]

Yeh I know he speaks english (with his interpreter next to him to help).

But it's one thing to understand a language, but to understand how most english speaking people don't use correct language, is very difficult.

Example:

VDV: Hey Bertie, you ready to f-ck up lance in the mountains? let's hit it dawg..

AC: [In broken english] Um, Christian... I'm not really into guys that way, I have a lady friend. Is that what you did at Postal??... Why would I want to hit him like a dog, that's inhumane... you are wierd Christian.. Bradley, why is he talk like this?

BW: He's a douche-bag, that's why.. wanna go play cricket?

AC: What's a doou..che.. bag?? Why would I play with crickets.. I hate bugs, they mess with my allergies...

AC [thinking]: Man i should of chosen Caisse. These boys are into some freaky buritos

Instant classic. I almost spit my coffee out.

 

[The_Z_man]

I would like to see him go to the place where the sun doesn't shine!

Why would he go to Sky when their stated mission was to win the Tour with a British rider?

 

[**Uru**]

I just think Caisse is the most natural fit for Contador. Valverde will be out of the picture by the end of the year. Even if Valv Piti is still racing next year, I do not think he is as good as Contador. Garmin does not feel right to me. I think he will feel like he is the odd man out with most of the team being English speakers. Also, Vaughters just gives me the creeps for some reason. He is shifty like Kurt Russell's charactor in Used Cars. Quickstep is simply a joke. The place to go if they are paying top dollar and if Contador does not really want to get results.

 

[Cobber]

According to CN - he is now free to go. We should know something soon!

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/astanas-protour-application-still-not-in-order-contador-free-to-go

 

[RdBiker]

According to CN - he is now free to go. We should know something soon!

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/astanas-protour-application-still-not-in-order-contador-free-to-go

Interesting to see. My bet is on Caisse. IF Valverde doesn't get banned next month it's gonna be very interesting next year. Everyone knows that Valverde has ambitions regarding the Tour so will Caisse put two leaders or leave Valverde out (and **** him off)

 

[Publicus]

Interesting to see. My bet is on Caisse. IF Valverde doesn't get banned next month it's gonna be very interesting next year. Everyone knows that Valverde has ambitions regarding the Tour so will Caisse put two leaders or leave Valverde out (and **** him off)

I'd avoid CdE like the plague. What with the new Spanish Doping scandal and LL Sanchez name being bandied about. I see him in Argyle next year.

 

[Anonymous]

this being reported in spain
http://translate.google.com/transla...rtad/297412.shtml&sl=es&tl=en&history_state0=

why do we have so many contador threads...?

 

[python]

Interesting to see. My bet is on Caisse. IF Valverde doesn't get banned next month it's gonna be very interesting next year. Everyone knows that Valverde has ambitions regarding the Tour so will Caisse put two leaders or leave Valverde out (and **** him off)

i find it curious how some fans interpret someone's interpretation (cn in this case) instead of reading the source - caisse is on the same list of delinquents as astana. the original uci press release said nothing about contador is free to go. it's the cn's interpretation which was served with a question mark (?= question mark). also, reading fine print should be clear - all teams in question submitted the required information by 20 oct. the question is about further clarifications in 5 areas of concern for the uci. the likeliest astana issues - signed contracts. but i could be mistaken of course.

 

[Publicus]

i find it curious how some fans interpret someone's interpretation (cn in this case) instead of reading the source - caisse is on the same list of delinquents as astana. the original uci press release said nothing about contador is free to go. it's the cn's interpretation which was served with a question mark (?= question mark). also, reading fine print should be clear - all teams in question submitted the required information by 20 oct. the question is about further clarifications in 5 areas of concern for the uci. the likeliest astana issues - signed contracts. but i could be mistaken of course.

I'm one of the guilty ones. I'm digging into this but I think it is a pretty iron clad out for AC. As I read the UCI regulations for the first time, all riders contracts must include the provisions set forth in Article 2.15.139 (see Art. 2.15.111). Art. 2.15.139 has a provision added this past July that gives the rider the right to terminate his contract without notice. The provision states that if "on October 20 of the year preceding a year of registration covered by the present contract, the UCI ProTeam has not submitted a registration file containing the essential documents listed in Art. 2.15.069bis."

Art. 2.15.069bis lists the following as essential documents: the budget, the sponsorship contracts duly signed with the main partners, the bank guarantee, at least 12 contracts with riders duly signed by the two parties and, for the new teams only, a description of the structure of the team together with a copy of the deed of incorporation of the paying agent.

The only question is whether a modification to the UCI rules retroactively applies to contract in existence prior to the date of the modification. I'm digging into that question now.

EDIT/Update: Well I will say the UCI does everything it can to make this a difficult answer to make. According to the regulations: "Except where provided otherwise, the amendments to these regulations enter into force on the date of their publication on UCI's web site." This provision was added January 1, 2009. Back to digging.

Final Update: While nothing in the regulations specifically states that modifications to the regulations are specifically applicable to existing contracts (which would not contain those standard contracts), there is a strong presumption that it in fact does. Specifically, the UCI modified its regulations with respect to the licensing requirements, which applied to existing licensees (the obligation to submit essential documents) and thus the corresponding termination right (set forth in art. 2.15.139) should be applicable to existing contracts. I'm pretty confident that this reading of the UCI regulations is reasonable and that AC has a very strong basis to terminate his contract. In any event, it won't hurt him to test the waters and simply unilaterally declare his contract null and void. Astana KNOWS he wants to leave so it won't come as a surprise.

 

[python]

I'm one of the guilty ones. I'm digging into this but I think it is a pretty iron clad out for AC. As I read the UCI regulations for the first time, all riders contracts must include the provisions set forth in Article 2.15.139 (see Art. 2.15.111). Art. 2.15.139 has a provision added this past July that gives the rider the right to terminate his contract without notice. The provision states that if "on October 20 of the year preceding a year of registration covered by the present contract, the UCI ProTeam has not submitted a registration file containing the essential documents listed in Art. 2.15.069bis."

Art. 2.15.069bis lists the following as essential documents: the budget, the sponsorship contracts duly signed with the main partners, the bank guarantee, at least 12 contracts with riders duly signed by the two parties and, for the new teams only, a description of the structure of the team together with a copy of the deed of incorporation of the paying agent.

The only question is whether a modification to the UCI rules retroactively applies to contract in existence prior to the date of the modification. I'm digging into that question now.

EDIT/Update: Well I will say the UCI does everything it can to make this a difficult answer to make. According to the regulations: "Except where provided otherwise, the amendments to these regulations enter into force on the date of their publication on UCI's web site." This provision was added January 1, 2009. Back to digging.

it's late i'm sleepy and may not make much sense but read the uci statement as a lawyer would: it did not say submitted and approved by the uci or submitted to the uci satisfaction...just merely submitted iow physically delivered for the uci consideration -- which astana and 4 more teams did in time. the fact is the uci still has questions. and contador's release as of 20 oct is contingent up on those fine print interpretations. we can be sure contador's and astana's lawyers reviewed these uci statements and judging by the clumsy outcomes i would not exclude another farkup by astana.

 

[Publicus]

it's late i'm sleepy and may not make much sense but read the uci statement as a lawyer would: it did not say submitted and approved by the uci or submitted to the uci satisfaction...just merely submitted iow physically delivered for the uci consideration -- which astana and 4 more teams did in time. the fact is the uci still has questions. and contador's release as of 20 oct is contingent up on those fine print interpretations. we can be sure contador's and astana's lawyers reviewed these uci statements and judging by the clumsy outcomes i would not exclude another farkup by astana.

I am a lawyer. I've read the relevant provisions of the UCI regulations and this was the penalty they inserted to make sure that teams submitted the essential documents by the relevant deadline. I would say that given all of the turmoil at Astana they probably weren't AWARE of the penalty that was inserted in July 2009. It's up to AC and his lawyers to make the case which, at least to me, is pretty much a slam dunk.

UPDATE: I just re-read this article where McQuaid was shooting down the October 20th date as being dispositive. What he says in passing however is pretty relevant to the question at hand:

However, it seems that Contador is in for a shock when he returns from riding a criterium in Cancun, Mexico, because he is unlikely to know where his future lies until mid-November.

Union Cycliste Internationale president Pat McQuaid told Cycling Weekly during the Gran Gala awards evening in Italy that Contador has made a mistake of naming today as a key deadline for his future.

The Astana team only has to supply basic details and guarantees for today's deadline such as naming sponsors and a minimum of 12 riders. McQuaid explained that Contador would only be free to change teams today if those requirements were not met. Otherwise Astana's ProTour application would then continue and would be decided by the UCI licence commission in several weeks' time.

According to a report in Tuesday's Gazzetta dello Sport newspaper, Astana has already presented its dossier to the UCI and new team manager Yvon Sanquer is confident the squad can continue as a ProTour team in 2010.

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest/427352/contador-hopes-to-end-astana-contract-today.html

Two things to note: (1) McQuaid is on record saying that he had an out if Astana failed to file the necessary paperwork and (2) contrary the report in Gazzetta dello Sport, we now know that Astana did not meet the deadline. I'd say that pretty much seals the deal on this case. AC is a free agent whenever he terminates his contract.

 

[Speedzero]

EDIT/Update: Well I will say the UCI does everything it can to make this a difficult answer to make. According to the regulations: "Except where provided otherwise, the amendments to these regulations enter into force on the date of their publication on UCI's web site." This provision was added January 1, 2009. Back to digging.

This is getting really interesting and should be a field day for the lawyers.

Since AC's contract was drawn up and signed before January 1, 2009, it surely doesn't have the required language. It is possible that the contract was expressly amended in 2009 to add the language, but I would guess not. However, consider "Article 9 - Defeasance" of the model contract, which is old language and therefore probably was included in AC's contract. It says:

"Any clause agreed upon between the Parties that runs counter to the terms of the model contract between a rider and a UCI ProTeam, . . . and/or to the provisions of the UCI constitution or regulations and which would in any way restrict the rights of the Rider shall be null and void."

So, if there is a clause in AC's contract that specifies the conditions under which AC can terminate the contract and that does not include the new language, then, arguably at least, it became null and void (to the extent of failing to include the new language) when the new language was added to the UCI regulations.

EDIT: Publius, I posted this before seeing your second update, which I agree with.

 

[Publicus]

This is getting really interesting and should be a field day for the lawyers.

Since AC's contract was drawn up and signed before January 1, 2009, it surely doesn't have the required language. It is possible that the contract was expressly amended in 2009 to add the language, but I would guess not. However, consider "Article 9 - Defeasance" of the model contract, which is old language and therefore probably was included in AC's contract. It says:

"Any clause agreed upon between the Parties that runs counter to the terms of the model contract between a rider and a UCI ProTeam, . . . and/or to the provisions of the UCI constitution or regulations and which would in any way restrict the rights of the Rider shall be null and void."

So, if there is a clause in AC's contract that specifies the conditions under which AC can terminate the contract and that does not include the new language, then, arguably at least, it became null and void (to the extent of failing to include the new language) when the new language was added to the UCI regulations.

All rider contracts have to include the language set forth in art. 2.15.139. The language was added to work as a penalty (a stick) to make sure the teams complied with the new obligation (submit essential documents by Oct 20). And I am certain that the obligation applied to all pro tour licensees, regardless of when their license was granted. My assumption is that the penalty would apply as well to all existing contracts after July 1, 2009. But you are right . . . lawyers are about to have a field day.

 

[Anonymous]

ok.. where is our newly crowned moderator.. we now have two threads, plus the transfer thread where the same thing is being discussed..

im confused to ****...

 

[Publicus]

ok.. where is our newly crowned moderator.. we now have two threads, plus the transfer thread where the same thing is being discussed..

im confused to ****...

WAH! It's not like anyone is trolling and the comments have all been made in relevant threads (this will be the most notable transfer if it happens) and AC-related threads.

I know you hate the guy, so you can just by-pass these threads to save yourself any more heartburn.

 

[Anonymous]

WAH! It's not like anyone is trolling and the comments have all been made in relevant threads (this will be the most notable transfer if it happens) and AC-related threads.

I know you hate the guy, so you can just by-pass these threads to save yourself any more heartburn.

no its not that, its to get the full story and peoples opinions you need to have all three threads open at once... i not got an issues about the content, i just am confused as where to answer and what to answer...

as for my liking of ac, i do love vino, so astana not getting a PT licence is a big deal to me..

 

[Publicus]

no its not that, its to get the full story and peoples opinions you need to have all three threads open at once... i not got an issues about the content, i just am confused as where to answer and what to answer...

as for my liking of ac, i do love vino, so astana not getting a PT licence is a big deal to me..

Fair point. Well we can stay here. Or move it elsewhere. As for Vino, this doesn't affect Astana's license. It only affects AC's ability to walk.

I updated my post to Python to include a statement McQuaid made earlier this week which spells out that AC is free to go.

 

[reubenr]

Garmin. I think it would be good for AC to be exposed to the US market a bit more and Garmin seems like a good group of guys/likeable. Not to mention that Garmin really doesn't have a top GC guy (sorry VdV and Wiggo), means he would fit right in. Only other place I could see is with CdE, but who knows what is going to happen with Valverde.

I would like to see him go to Garmin, for a lot of reasons. First, the team has the best management of any team in cycling. That in itself would be an uplift for Contador, after last year, but I also think that he would have more diverse cycling opportunities that would improve his cycling skills. We have not yet seen how good this man can be. Additionally, his presence would make the team better overall, and we would see more from Wiggins and Van de Velde than could be expected under normal conditions. As well, Mr. Contador needs to learn how to speak English and I think management is astute enough to support him in doing this. It would also help if Garmin brought in another Spaniard in support of Conatador, which probably will happen if Contador is brought on board.

 

[Anonymous]

I would like to see him go to Garmin, for a lot of reasons. First, the team has the best management of any team in cycling. That in itself would be an uplift for Contador, after last year, but I also think that he would have more diverse cycling opportunities that would improve his cycling skills. We have not yet seen how good this man can be. Additionally, his presence would make the team better overall, and we would see more from Wiggins and Van de Velde than could be expected under normal conditions. As well, Mr. Contador needs to learn how to speak English and I think management is astute enough to support him in doing this. It would also help if Garmin brought in another Spaniard in support of Conatador, which probably will happen if Contador is brought on board.

isnt it convenient that both Caisse d'Epargne and Eusktaltel-Euskadi are in the same boat.. effectively means that there is a whole bunch of spaniards that are free to terminate their contracts... very very convenient.. if not a tad suspicious...

wouldnt surprise me if this whole lance v ac thing has been an elaborate hoax put together by JB and we see contador and five hand picked spaniards going to the shack.. they support lance in 2010 and in return AC gets give years of domination and whatever riders he wants..

it does also raise the possiblity that it makes sense for contador to stay at astana and let the khazaks raid caisse and euskaltel of the spaniards that AC wants..

 

[zoeart]

Two things to note: (1) McQuaid is on record saying that he had an out if Astana failed to file the necessary paperwork and (2) contrary the report in Gazzetta dello Sport, we now know that Astana did not meet the deadline. I'd say that pretty much seals the deal on this case. AC is a free agent whenever he terminates his contract.

KazakhNeRider posted this on Twitter earlier today.

@KazakhNeRider Vice-president KCF Antyshev: UCI sent back some docs for revision. We're tired of waiting for final answer...

 

[ChrisE]

Contador should go to Radio Shack. He could use another year of tutelage under LA to learn the ropes. Real champions must learn from a master.