Who are the best placed clean riders?

[ricara]

The good news is that it is obvious that there are a lot of clean teams in the Tour this year. Gone are the days of seven Tours in a row with only one bad day!

I think that the whole Garmin team was clean, so hats off to Ryder for a superb job to make 7th overall.

Based on the number of $hitty days that Wiggins had, I can't believe he was doping, so even though he finished well down, I think that Sky must also be clean.

Mick Rogers was the GC hopeful for HTC-Columbia and he also had a slew of $hitty days, so I'm hoping their team is clean. And unlike half of the sprinters in the peloton, I don't think Cavendish has a TUE for salbutamol for "asthma. (Unlike Petacchi, who got popped for twice the legal limit a while back -- I could never figure out why an asthmatic would decide that "bike race sprinter" would be a good career choice...)

So who is your vote for top-placed clean rider (and any other notable clean teams)? Gesink held onto 6th ahead of Ryder. I've always wanted to believe that he was clean. One rider with a last name starting with "G" spoke out against doping a few years back, but I think that was actually Gerdemann and not Gesink...

Thanks for your opinions!

 

[frizzlefry]

Voekler and Chavanel

 

[ricara]

Thomas Voeckler and Sylvain Chavanel both had beautiful victories in the middle of many days when it was clear that they were trying hard and couldn't get anywhere. So I'll go with your call that they were clean.

But does that mean that the full B-Box and Quick-Step teams were also clean? I could be persuaded, as I didn't see any "super-human" rides from any of those guys, just good hard bike racing.

Do you think they were really the highest placed clean riders? Chavanel is in 31st and Voeckler is in 76th. Chavanel's teammate DeWeert is in 18th place.

How about Nicolas Roche on Ag2R in 15th?

 

[Ferminal]

1 Alberto Contador Velasco (Spa) Astana 89:16:27
2 Andy Schleck (Lux) Team Saxo Bank 0:00:39
3 Denis Menchov (Rus) Rabobank 0:02:01
4 Samuel Sánchez Gonzalez (Spa) Euskaltel - Euskadi 0:03:40
5 Jurgen Van Den Broeck (Bel) Omega Pharma-Lotto 0:06:54
6 Robert Gesink (Ned) Rabobank 0:09:31
7 Ryder Hesjedal (Can) Garmin - Transitions 0:10:15
8 Joaquin Rodriguez (Spa) Team Katusha 0:11:37
9 Roman Kreuziger (Cze) Liquigas-Doimo 0:11:54
10 Christopher Horner (USA) Team Radioshack 0:12:02
11 Luis León Sánchez Gil (Spa) Caisse d'Epargne 0:14:21
12 Ruben Plaza Molina (Spa) Caisse d'Epargne 0:14:29
13 Levi Leipheimer (USA) Team Radioshack 0:14:40
14 Andreas Klöden (Ger) Team Radioshack 0:16:36
15 Nicolas Roche (Irl) AG2R La Mondiale 0:16:59
16 Alexander Vinokourov (Kaz) Astana 0:17:46
17 Thomas Löfkvist (Swe) Sky Professional Cycling Team 0:20:46
18 Kevin De Weert (Bel) Quick Step 0:21:54
19 John Gadret (Fra) AG2R La Mondiale 0:24:04
20 Carlos Sastre (Spa) Cervelo Test Team 0:26:37

 

[Colm.Murphy]

1 Alberto Contador Velasco (Spa) Astana 89:16:27
2 Andy Schleck (Lux) Team Saxo Bank 0:00:39
3 Denis Menchov (Rus) Rabobank 0:02:01
4 Samuel Sánchez Gonzalez (Spa) Euskaltel - Euskadi 0:03:40
5 Jurgen Van Den Broeck (Bel) Omega Pharma-Lotto 0:06:54
6 Robert Gesink (Ned) Rabobank 0:09:31
7 Ryder Hesjedal (Can) Garmin - Transitions 0:10:15
8 Joaquin Rodriguez (Spa) Team Katusha 0:11:37
9 Roman Kreuziger (Cze) Liquigas-Doimo 0:11:54
10 Christopher Horner (USA) Team Radioshack 0:12:02
11 Luis León Sánchez Gil (Spa) Caisse d'Epargne 0:14:21
12 Ruben Plaza Molina (Spa) Caisse d'Epargne 0:14:29
13 Levi Leipheimer (USA) Team Radioshack 0:14:40
14 Andreas Klöden (Ger) Team Radioshack 0:16:36
15 Nicolas Roche (Irl) AG2R La Mondiale 0:16:59
16 Alexander Vinokourov (Kaz) Astana 0:17:46
17 Thomas Löfkvist (Swe) Sky Professional Cycling Team 0:20:46
18 Kevin De Weert (Bel) Quick Step 0:21:54
19 John Gadret (Fra) AG2R La Mondiale 0:24:04
20 Carlos Sastre (Spa) Cervelo Test Team 0:26:37

I agree with your bolded (clean) riders, and added a couple that might raise a brow but consider this:

Even when Ryder, who by all accounts and the progress of his career so far, could be a future GC contender, the other two have been there more than once. They were probably under as much scrutiny on the run up and through this Tour as any other riders ever.

Given this scrutiny, and the obvious napalmic reaction that would occur if either of them came pos, I find it about the surest thing that those two prepped and rode this Tour clorox clean.

 

[ricara]

I hear what you're saying about Radio Shack. But, but, but...

Levi started off really strong and just slowly went downhill, as if he'd come in juiced up and never got a "refill".

And what do you say about his teammate Horner? He made 10th place after waiting and waiting and waiting for Lance on many days. Of course this put him so far down on GC that they let he and Lance get in the break that gained about 6 minutes on the field. But what if Chris had been team captain and they were all riding for him (as if Lance actually rode a pedal stroke in his life for anybody else!). Would Horner have cracked the top 5? Is he that good, or was he doping and the other guys weren't?

It's hard to reconcile all that and definitively say that guys on the Shack were clean. Clearly they all were doping less than in the past, though!

 

[ricara]

I find this to be an encouraging trend overall. Quite a few important teams seem to be riding clean:

Garmin
Cervelo
Ag2R
Sky
Quick Step

Anybody going to cast a vote for Omega Pharma? They only had one rider in the top 15, Jurgen Van den Broeck. I don't know much about them, but it would be great to add another team to the clean list.

Compare this to the era of Riis and Bruyneel when every single team had a doping program and every single rider was doping. LeMond and Hampsten have both said they quit the sport because they couldn't compete in the era of EPO and they didn't want to dope. This is in contrast to Lance who (third-hand) said that if everyone else was doping that he was going to be the king of dopers.

 

[erader]

I find this to be an encouraging trend overall. Quite a few important teams seem to be riding clean:

Garmin
Cervelo
Ag2R
Sky
Quick Step

Anybody going to cast a vote for Omega Pharma? They only had one rider in the top 15, Jurgen Van den Broeck. I don't know much about them, but it would be great to add another team to the clean list.

Compare this to the era of Riis and Bruyneel when every single team had a doping program and every single rider was doping. LeMond and Hampsten have both said they quit the sport because they couldn't compete in the era of EPO and they didn't want to dope. This is in contrast to Lance who (third-hand) said that if everyone else was doping that he was going to be the king of dopers.

yeah right. that's not the way i remember it. andy didn't have the fire and lemond went kicking and screaming.

erader

 

[Hmmmmm]

The good news is that it is obvious that there are a lot of clean teams in the Tour this year. Gone are the days of seven Tours in a row with only one bad day!

.....

Thanks for your opinions!

I personally do not see how it is obvious that there are a lot of clean teams competing this year. Different year, different circumstances - some clean, some not. Business as usual.

 

[Hugh Januss]

170 Adriano Malori (Ita) Lampre-Farnese Vini 4:26:26

Maybe this guy? Maybe.

 

[ak-zaaf]

If English is their native language, they're clean.

 

[rxgqgxnyfz]

If English is their native language, they're clean.

Actually it goes like that: if their voices are attractive enough to cause warm fuzzies in one's underbelly, they're clean.
________
LovelyWendie99

 

[M Sport]

170 Adriano Malori (Ita) Lampre-Farnese Vini 4:26:26

Maybe this guy? Maybe.

And,

165 Robbie McEwen (Aus) Team Katusha

That's all though

 

[craig1985]

I find this to be an encouraging trend overall. Quite a few important teams seem to be riding clean:

Garmin
Cervelo
Ag2R
Sky
Quick Step

Anybody going to cast a vote for Omega Pharma? They only had one rider in the top 15, Jurgen Van den Broeck. I don't know much about them, but it would be great to add another team to the clean list.

Compare this to the era of Riis and Bruyneel when every single team had a doping program and every single rider was doping. LeMond and Hampsten have both said they quit the sport because they couldn't compete in the era of EPO and they didn't want to dope. This is in contrast to Lance who (third-hand) said that if everyone else was doping that he was going to be the king of dopers.

It should be noted as a side reference that he turned pro for Quick Step (2003) and then rode for USPS in 2004 and then did two years at Discovery Channel under the watch of Johan Bruyneel. I'm not saying that makes him guilty, but that has to be kept in mind.

The only things that can be kept in his favour is that he never actually had a proper win as a professional, unless you count the Natourcriterium Herentals, which he won in 2009. The other things are that he was highly rated as a junior (he won the Tour of Limburg and was a junior World TT Champion at the 2001 Lisbon Worlds) and that going to USPS, and later Discovery was seen as compensation for Quick Step taking Tom Boonen from Postal. Bruyneel himself said that van den Broeck needed more experience. Also that his progression has been a lot more natural (ie each year he gets better).

But make of that what you will, you could just take the Big Boat method and say that everybody in the top 40 is doping to some degree.

 

[Pedaaldanser]

After looking at the Tour on tv and observing the riders, this is my expert judgement about the top 20 riders:

I think these are not doping this tour:

1 Alberto Contador Velasco (Spa) Astana 89:16:27
3 Denis Menchov (Rus) Rabobank 0:02:01
4 Samuel Sánchez Gonzalez (Spa) Euskaltel - Euskadi 0:03:40
6 Robert Gesink (Ned) Rabobank 0:09:31
8 Joaquin Rodriguez (Spa) Team Katusha 0:11:37
9 Roman Kreuziger (Cze) Liquigas-Doimo 0:11:54
11 Luis León Sánchez Gil (Spa) Caisse d'Epargne 0:14:21
16 Alexander Vinokourov (Kaz) Astana 0:17:46
20 Carlos Sastre (Spa) Cervelo Test Team 0:26:37

These guys I haven't noticed enough to judge them:

12 Ruben Plaza Molina (Spa) Caisse d'Epargne 0:14:29
15 Nicolas Roche (Irl) AG2R La Mondiale 0:16:59
17 Thomas Löfkvist (Swe) Sky Professional Cycling Team 0:20:46
18 Kevin De Weert (Bel) Quick Step 0:21:54

That leaves these foul dopers:
2 Andy Schleck (Lux) Team Saxo Bank 0:00:39 - Rode better than ever before, even in the TT, while he sucked in Switzerland. I think he's pumped full with anything Saxo thought was safe enough, because they had a good chance to beat Contador this year. He might even have borrowed a battery!
5 Jurgen Van Den Broeck (Bel) Omega Pharma-Lotto 0:06:54 - Never rode this well before compared to the rest.. you could say the others are less doped but I rather think he's more doped.
7 Ryder Hesjedal (Can) Garmin - Transitions 0:10:15 - Not sure about this one, I saw him look reeaaallly bad on the Tourmalet climb and still he finished at the front... being on Garmin doesn't improve his credibility.
10 Christopher Horner (USA) Team Radioshack 0:12:02 - a team from JB can never be truly clean, the man doesn't know any better
13 Levi Leipheimer (USA) Team Radioshack 0:14:40 - a team from JB can never be truly clean, the man doesn't know any better
14 Andreas Klöden (Ger) Team Radioshack 0:16:36 - a team from JB can never be truly clean, the man doesn't know any better
19 John Gadret (Fra) AG2R La Mondiale 0:24:04 - this man is evil, so he must dope (he also rode really strong at the Giro)

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

Define clean. I don't think anyone with any real talent was engaged in serious old school bloody doping, or they'd have put out much much bigger wattage numbers than those being reported.

Having said that, I'm guessing most of them are engaged in some sort of recovery doping - personally it's a half way house I can live with.

 

[SpartacusRox]

Julian Dean cause he's a Kiwi and we don't cheat at sport!

 

[craig1985]

Never heard of Stephen Swart?

 

[ColumbusSL]

And,

165 Robbie McEwen (Aus) Team Katusha

That's all though

ROFLMAO!! an ex Aussie trackie?!! next you'll be telling us Stuart O'Grady (same era) is clean... and don't get me wrong - I am a big fan of O'Grady's - he has to be one of the hardest men around - but clean?! not a chance...

In my book if you haven't been tainted in anyway you may be clean... that doesn't include anyone who has ridden for a drug team, or has their dogs name with a 'doctor'... so Cadel Evans may be cleanish...

what is interesting is the number of teams who on paper look good but didn't do well... it could be that there was less doping in this tour... but you'd be only guessing at that...

 

[M Sport]

Never heard of Stephen Swart?

Bet Lance has lol

 

[M Sport]

In my book if you haven't been tainted in anyway you may be clean... that doesn't include anyone who has ridden for a drug team, or has their dogs name with a 'doctor'... so Cadel Evans may be cleanish...

I was being slightly facetious, hence the

Being serious now. If we use your measure of clean for their entire careers rather than just this race I doubt there is a clean rider amongst them.

 

[klmorgan]

Julian Dean cause he's a Kiwi and we don't cheat at sport!

Must be all that sheep chasing!

Craig 1985 seems to have generally hit the teams on the head (although there will be a few riders on some of the other teams that are riding clean e.g. BMC and Saxo Bank).

The only hope we have is that those cheaters get caught and all that they deserve!

 

[Frosty]

5 Jurgen Van Den Broeck (Bel) Omega Pharma-Lotto 0:06:54 - Never rode this well before compared to the rest.. you could say the others are less doped but I rather think he's more doped.

He came 7th in the 2008 giro. Soon afterwards, Ricco (who finished second) and Sella (who finished 6th) got done for CERA. Pellizotti has since been done for bio-passport irregularities and taking these three riders out makes him fourth, being beaten by Contador, Bruseghin and Menchov. It would also have made him best young rider. Last year, he rode the tour but fell off at the start of the team time trial and lost a lot of time as they didnt wait. After that he went for breakaways and working in those makes you more tired for the times when you arent in breaks.

He also finished high up in the Dauphine this year.

Not saying he isnt on drugs but his performance was maybe not that much of a surprise, especially considering the poor performance of some of the top contenders.

 

[durianrider]

Those riders that eat a lot of vegetarian health food like Ryder and Levi and Vandevelde..my money is on them for minimal pharmacutical assistance.

Its a catch 22, we as the spectator love a winner and buy there products they endorse and then we spit and heckle at em when they get busted giving us a good show.

Pro sport that involves money and fame, your not going to find anyone that is 100% clean, wholemeal bread, water and caffeine free herbal tea clean.

 

[craig1985]

Thomas Voeckler and Sylvain Chavanel both had beautiful victories in the middle of many days when it was clear that they were trying hard and couldn't get anywhere. So I'll go with your call that they were clean.

But does that mean that the full B-Box and Quick-Step teams were also clean? I could be persuaded, as I didn't see any "super-human" rides from any of those guys, just good hard bike racing.

Do you think they were really the highest placed clean riders? Chavanel is in 31st and Voeckler is in 76th. Chavanel's teammate DeWeert is in 18th place.

How about Nicolas Roche on Ag2R in 15th?

I think the two things that gives Chavanel possibly some credibility is that after taking the stage and the yellow jersey on the Station des Rousses is that he cracked and lost heaps of time on the next day. On stage two, he was gifted the stage after half the peloton crashed on the Stockeau, and Spartacus making everybody wait until the Schleck's got back into the peloton.

I don't know about Wiggins (or Wigans), I want to believe, but I find it hard too. I know last year's course was crap, I mean if you put 70km of flat after the Tourmalet and Freire and Rojas are sprinting for 3rd place...

But he still should of lost a lot more time on Verbier and Mont Ventoux. I give him the benefit of the doubt, but with a strong hint of skepticism of his performance.

And Patrick Lefevere is no paragon of clean cycling either.