- Oct 30, 2011
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This. Great post. +10000pmcg76 said:No, it was more of a generalisation as there seems to be quite a few posters who find the idea that we even question certain performances as outrageous behaviour.
It just so happens that 3 of the more obvious transformations Wiggins, Froome & JTL happen to be British. I think quite a few people have come to the sport on the back of the recent upsurge of British success and find the idea that we might even doubt these riders as sacrilege.
Bucketloads of excuses and theories are then wheeled out in an effort to explain these transformations. Better training, recovery from injury, more opportunities, weight loss etc, etc. Back in the 90s, these types of transformations were a dime a dozen and we all know how they were explained, better training, recovery from injury, more opportunities, weight loss etc. Yet, we all know the real reason.
Either these posters dont know the history of our sport or they choose to ignore it. How anyone who knows the history of doping in cycling can expect people to just accept things without questioning seems strange to me unless they are ok with doping in the sport and they dont care anyway.
Agreed.Moose McKnuckles said:This. Great post. +10000
Gosh reading thought this thread has given me a headache, and I'm going to need a lie down soon.samerics said:if anyone has seen Bradley up close then you'll realise the transformation. I saw him recently in a music shop in Manchester, in November when he's not at Tour weight, and he is like a stick! I was amazed to see how thin he is, ie narrow in the upper body, not just low fat content. The guys shape changed to become a Tour rider, no question. if anyone has any proof that he dopes then fine, let's see it, otherwise just accept that he made a choice to become a different kind of rider by losing upper body weight. And I'm not a fan boy, just stating the obvious![]()
...................horsinabout said:Gosh reading thought this thread has given me a headache, and I'm going to need a lie down soon.
It was Peter Keen, sports scientist extraordinaire, Chris Boardman's coach who pushed the low % body fat thing...he initiated it. And it is God awful.
The other thing is when posters imply you should stop asking questions about riders possible doping for reasons for their dramatic improvements, because "you can't prove it" Balderdash!
The only known way you can ever know whether someone is doping as proof is to get scientific samples and confessiions, perferably in combination. Does not and should not stop speculation, particulary in relation to body shape changes.
Indeed, and what that team in black is doing is single-mindedly destroying any form of passion or panache in pro cycling, thus ruining it as a spectator sport, unless you enjoy switching on the box and seeing a team in black sitting at the front riding tempo all day... Is that normal? And with a annual budget of around £30 million, that buys a hell of a lot of of muesli and mineral water, must be exceptional stuff....Benotti69 said:But everyone was at it, with a few exceptions! Festina 98 taught us that.
Why would it have changed. Various teams since then have performed at such high levels and consistency that it is virtually impossible to believe it has changed. Look at the Director Sportifs who run these teams. With a few exceptions all doped as riders or were DS during the infamous epo era.
This place is more grounded in reality based on the history of the sport and the unchanged attitude from within the sport to doping.
Hinault and LeMond claimed around 4% in their prime...horsinabout said:Gosh reading thought this thread has given me a headache, and I'm going to need a lie down soon.
It was Peter Keen, sports scientist extraordinaire, Chris Boardman's coach who pushed the low % body fat thing...he initiated it. And it is God awful.
The other thing is when posters imply you should stop asking questions about riders possible doping for reasons for their dramatic improvements, because "you can't prove it" Balderdash!
The only known way you can ever know whether someone is doping as proof is to get scientific samples and confessions, perferably in combination. Does not and should not stop speculation, particulary in relation to body shape changes.
very unlikely for cultural reasons!blackcat said:stiff upper lip
work ethic
chariots of fire
muscular christianity
gordonstoun
mood lighting
doping
Someone should have told Tom Simpson that.SeriousSam said:very unlikely for cultural reasons!
I am no expert about % body fat for endurance male cycling athletes. However, looking at historic photos of Greg Lemond (GL) and Bernard Hinault(BH), they appear to have a higher LEAN body mass than Wiggo or Froome. Basically GL/BH had much more visible muscle bulk than Wiggo/Froome.SeriousSam said:Please post a cite for 4% bodyfat being "normal" for any athlete. As far as I know, that's extremely low.
And did those feet in ancient time.doolols said:Dear God, not (yet) another Sky / BC - bashing thread![]()
Now I'm not sure but this has William Blake written all over it?Zam_Olyas said:And did those feet in ancient time.
Walk upon Englands mountains green:
And was the holy Lamb of God,
On Englands pleasant pastures seen!
And did the Countenance Divine,
Shine forth upon our clouded hills?
And was Jerusalem builded here,
Among these dark Satanic Mills?
Bring me my Bow of burning gold;
Bring me my Arrows of desire:
Bring me my Spear: O clouds unfold!
Bring me my Chariot of fire!
I will not cease from Mental Fight,
Nor shall my Sword sleep in my hand:
Till we have built Jerusalem,
In Englands green & pleasant Land
I think it is better than God Save The Queen. Why do you want to debate about Sky/UK riders doping?... Because to you they are clean and will never dope.doolols said:And the relevance to doping in cycling?
Some of these threads and posts are verging on the xenophobic.
Your Stupiddoolols said:Dear God, not (yet) another Sky / BC - bashing thread![]()
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