Why Tenerife?

[The Chicken]

Surely this place is now toxic for any pro team/rider. Given what we now know, who would want to admit to 'preparing'/training here? It's not like it's Majorca which has a tradition as a cycling training destination.

I wonder where they'll all go next.

 

[RichWalk]

Brad goes because the fags are cheap....

 

[Franklin]

Why is it so naive to think that riders want to practice riding up big mountains, somewhere that has big mountains?

Because you don't practice riding up a big mountain by riding up a big mountain.

Seriously, it's way to intensive, so you generally train (quality training) at less strenuous climbs. Hence for example Lance trained at the Madone and not the Aubisque.

This is really solid physiology/training science, you would only damage muscles and overexert yourself.

So we can be 100.000.000% sure that Brad didn't just ride the Pico a few hundred times. That's simply media spin. The trick is to sleep high, train low. And especially: Train quality! Train specific!

 

[thehog]

So we can be 100.000.000% sure that Brad didn't just ride the Pico a few hundred times. That's simply media spin. The trick is to sleep high, train low. And especially: Train quality! Train specific!

100% agree.

And in Armstrong/Wiggins speak that translates into "nobody works harder than me"

 

[Descender]

I am another long time lurker. I don't believe this has been discussed but if it has i apologise.

What do people feel are the reasons for sky training in tenerife, there are few roads, one mountain, it must get pretty boring, no?

I recall that Michael Rasmussen enjoyed success after "training" in mexico

Is it because its under Spanish jurisdiction, but not "obviously" in Spain, so less likely to cause alarm bells to ring?

Or is it as simple as being several hours flight from Europe and paying someone off at the airports to check the passenger lists on a daily basis for anyone flying in who works for anti doping?

Socrates

Lol. There are tons of roads in Tenerife. Steep, steeper, less steep, flat, long, short... Why people think Tenerife is Teide and that's it is beyond me.

 

[BroDeal]

The trick is to sleep high, train low. And especially: Train quality! Train specific!

The trick is to go to altitude to mask the use of EPO.

Altitude training months before the TdF? BS.

 

[ElChingon]

The trick is to go to altitude to mask the use of EPO.

Altitude training months before the TdF? BS.

No the trick has always been just dope. Everything else is just a cover up.

 

[thehog]

"The files" mention a hotel in Spain where if you stayed you wouldn't be tested. I assume this is still in place in Tenerife.

 

[Arnout]

Lol. There are tons of roads in Tenerife. Steep, steeper, less steep, flat, long, short... Why people think Tenerife is Teide and that's it is beyond me.

People here don't have a clue and are assuming things.

I like the clinic, but some here are very good at bending situations and facts to suit their needs.

 

[zalacain]

We always used to go down to the Alpujarras for pre season training. Quiet roads, easy access by road and train via Granada, and less of those oppressive winds you get in Tenerife. It also made it easy for visitors to find us.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

I have a few points to make re: Tenerife, and it starts with altitude training in general.

This post just sets the scene, based on the articles found in the Internet.

Firstly, where are Sky training?
Pico del Teide - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ot...put-him-in-contention-for-Tour-de-France.html

Elevation: 3,718 m

When did they start training there?

Since Wiggins and his colleagues started riding on the volcano last May (2011)

Did Brad have time to train there? cqranking.com says yes:

27/05/2011 2.HCs [Ger] 18 Bayern-Rundfahrt, Stage 3 : Bad Gögging - Aichach 0
1/05/2011 2.WT [Sui] 62 Tour de Romandie 5

Where are they staying? http://www.pelotonmagazine.com/Filter/content/5/1716

To help in all those areas, Kerrison set up training camps at the Parador Hotel Cañadas, 7,000 feet (2,200 meters) above sea level on the extinct Teide volcano on the Spanish island of Tenerife, off the coast of Morocco

Are they training at altitude, as armchairclimber suggests, or doing the whole LHTL, and training at sea-level:

Just about every daily ride we do here ends with a 2,000-metre ascent up the mountain back to our hotel

What happens on rest days? (Because someone said they don't do anything): http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/may/23/bradley-wiggins-tour-de-france

We visit on a rest day, when he spins his stick-thin legs for 30 minutes to the nearest coffee bar while gossiping on the bike with Rogers, and returns, at a modest pace.

What was the effect of the training? http://www.cyclesportmag.com/features/all-aboard-the-magic-bus/

In May, Wiggins and a few other riders spent time in Tenerife, training at altitude. “It’s the best, most productive thing I’ve ever done,” he says. “Last year I suffered when the Tour went high and it goes higher again this year. I basically lost 100 watts every time it went over 1,500 metres. After ten days in Tenerife I had that 100 watts back. It’s not just about being at altitude, it’s about training to perform at altitude.”

In 2012, who was training in Tenerife?

“Six of the Dauphine team were living at altitude, at 2150 metres on top of a volcano, in Tenerife for two weeks in May and we had three of them up there for two weeks in April as well.

April: 3 riders: Guessing not Froome: http://www.worldonbike.org/2012/07/...es-parasite-media-cars-expelled/#.UIEU_1GkKSo

“The bilharzia is not totally cleared up,” Froome said. “I did repeat the treatment about three months ago in March. I am clear for now. I need to go check again in August-September.”

Also - Porte was doing Wiggins' programme, and Rogers smashed Froome at Criterium International and Volta Agarve. Complete annihilated him. Based on those results, I am guessing Porte and Rogers were the early season lieutenants.

So at a guess, the three other guys: Wiggins, Porte, Rogers. This is further reinforced by the Wag wars on twitter.

May: grabbing the top 6 Sky riders from the Dauphine: http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/criterium-du-dauphine-2012/stage-7/results

1 Bradley Wiggins (GBr) Sky Procycling 26:40:46
2 Michael Rogers (Aus) Sky Procycling 0:01:17
4 Christopher Froome (GBr) Sky Procycling 0:01:45
9 Richie Porte (Aus) Sky Procycling 0:03:34
51 Edvald Boasson Hagen (Nor) Sky Procycling 0:24:08
64 Kanstantsin Siutsou (Blr) Sky Procycling 0:28:43

 

[Frosty]

Didnt think EBH went out there. Think there was a photo of Tiernan-Locke out there although he wasnt a Sky rider at that time.

Can only see 5 riders in these pictures.

http://bencawthrablog.visualsociety.com/2012/06/27/training-with-bradley-wiggins-in-tenerife-spain/

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Didnt think EBH went out there. Think there was a photo of Tiernan-Locke out there although he wasnt a Sky rider at that time.

Can only see 5 riders in these pictures.

http://bencawthrablog.visualsociety.com/2012/06/27/training-with-bradley-wiggins-in-tenerife-spain/

Thanks, good spot. Can you ID them? I see Wiggins, Froome, Porte... I have no idea what Sitsou looks like.

 

[Frosty]

Thanks, good spot. Can you ID them? I see Wiggins, Froome, Porte... I have no idea what Sitsou looks like.

I dont either and was trying to guess who someone was - then i realised their names are on the sides of their jerseys Siutsou is there along with Knees.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Why might want to train at altitude:

8-10 hrs/night can improve MAOD, VO2max and MMPO(4min): http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12527968

Nineteen well-trained cyclists (14 males and 5 females, mean initial .VO(2max) 62.3 ml kg(-1 )min(-1)) completed a multistage cycle ergometer test to determine maximal mean power output in 4 min (MMPO(4min)), maximal oxygen uptake (.VO(2max)) and maximal accumulated oxygen deficit (MAOD).

The changes to MMPO(4min), .VO(2max) and MAOD in response to LHTL altitude exposure were not significantly different for the 5-, 10- and 15-day treatment periods.

Good if you're going to do an IP or some other short, 4 minute effort.


Spending enough time at altitude can help improve lactate metabolism: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14514705

We determined the effect of 20 nights of live high, train low (LHTL) hypoxic exposure on lactate kinetics, monocarboxylate lactate transporter proteins (MCT1 and MCT4), and muscle in vitro buffering capacity (betam) in 29 well-trained cyclists and triathletes.
...
We conclude that 20 consecutive nights of hypoxia exposure decreased whole body Ra (Rate of lactate appearance) during intense exercise in well-trained athletes.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Why you shouldn't train at altitude:

Unless you spend enough time at altitude, you won't improve performance or oxygen transport: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17690191

This double-blind, randomized, placebo-controlled trial examined the effects of 4 wk of resting exposure to intermittent hypobaric hypoxia (IHE, 3 h/day, 5 days/wk at 4,000-5,500 m) or normoxia combined with training at sea level on performance and maximal oxygen transport in athletes.
...
We conclude that this "dose" of IHE was not sufficient to improve performance or oxygen transport in this heterogeneous group of athletes.

Unless you spend enough time at altitude, you won't improve submaximal economy: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18048583

To evaluate the effect of intermittent hypobaric hypoxia combined with sea level training on exercise economy, 23 well-trained athletes (13 swimmers, 10 runners) were assigned to either hypobaric hypoxia (simulated altitude of 4,000-5,500 m) or normobaric normoxia (0-500 m) in a randomized, double-blind design.
...
It is concluded that 4 wk of intermittent hypobaric hypoxia did not improve submaximal economy in this group of well-trained athletes.

Unless you spend enough time at altitude, you won't gain an increase in red blood cells (NOT helpful), even if you do gain an increase in EPO (helpful): http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16794028

This study tested the hypothesis that athletes exposed to 4 wk of intermittent hypobaric hypoxia exposure (3 h/day, 5 days/wk at 4,000-5,500 m) or double-blind placebo increase their red blood cell volume (RCV) and hemoglobin mass (Hbmass) secondary to an increase in erythropoietin (EPO).

Apart from doubling EPO concentration 3 h after hypoxia there was no increase in any of the measures for either Hypo or Norm groups.
[NB: Good for fooling the EPO test]

Overall, evidence from four independent techniques (RCV, Hbmass, reticulocyte parameters, and soluble transferrin receptor) suggests that intermittent hypobaric hypoxia exposure did not accelerate erythropoiesis despite the increase in serum EPO.

Hard training requires good recovery, right? Guess what? You don't sleep as well at altitude: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16075782

A popular method to attempt to enhance performance is for athletes to sleep at natural or simulated moderate altitude (SMA) when training daily near sea level.
...
Overall, sleeping at 2650 m causes sleep disturbance in susceptible athletes, yet there was some improvement in REM sleep over the study duration

In fact it can get bad enough to disturb your sleep: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15940534

At high altitudes, the clinically defined respiratory disturbance index (RDI) and high hypoxic ventilatory response (HVR) have been associated with diminished sleep quality.

 

[Franklin]

The trick is to go to altitude to mask the use of EPO.

A possible explanation.

Altitude training months before the TdF? BS.

Considering they won everything there was to win (so I guess it paid dividend) it might be less ridiculous then you indicate. But I certainly agree it's odd, especially considering the disadvantages.

And well... the Lance case pushed quite a few alarm bells when riders practically start to live on top of a mountain. One of those things which put me firmly in the Sky critics camp... unless they start explaining their behavior it's very suspicious.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

The author describes the high altitude effect: http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/may/23/bradley-wiggins-tour-de-france

One can feel what draws the cyclists as one tries to sleep in the hotel. Breathing does not come easy in the thin, dry air at 2,100m above sea level. The lungs struggle from time to time. The nose and throat burn a little, as if breathing in acid.

Is that really the recovery you want after a 6 hour, 5000m elevation training ride?

 

[HSNHSN]

How about this question, can someone please post Tenerife visits to podium places both prior to, and soon after the visit. And, yes, I know the deniers will have plenty of ammo anyway, but I think it's an interesting question that I don't have time to research. If I'm right the first results are weeks after Tenerife so the rider is gauranteed a negative, but has all the benefits of the doping cycle.

I agree this is a nice question and I'm somewhat disappointed it isn't answered yet.

The reason I encountered this forum topic is that I got the idea there is some correlation between outstanding sporting results and having had a training camp on Tenerife and wanted to know more about it. In this respect, I have to admit that I totally missed that the Sky team has been to Tenerife as well. Notable examples I encountered in the dutch media over the past few years (and that seem to be related to the quoted question as well) include the following:
- several football teams during their winter breaks (including, for instance, Manchester City)
- most of Europe's best swimmers. This got some media coverage in the build-up to the London Olympics, if I'm not mistaken.
- part of the dutch speed skating team didn't attend several world cup matches this season in order to train on Tenerife. And to go on and all win medals later on.

Is this a mere coincidence? Really the result of altitude, even though its effects are doubted (and in the last case, training in the Alps makes at least as much sense)?

 

[Dear Wiggo]

I agree this is a nice question and I'm somewhat disappointed it isn't answered yet.

The reason I encountered this forum topic is that I got the idea there is some correlation between outstanding sporting results and having had a training camp on Tenerife and wanted to know more about it. In this respect, I have to admit that I totally missed that the Sky team has been to Tenerife as well. Notable examples I encountered in the dutch media over the past few years (and that seem to be related to the quoted question as well) include the following:
- several football teams during their winter breaks (including, for instance, Manchester City)
- most of Europe's best swimmers. This got some media coverage in the build-up to the London Olympics, if I'm not mistaken.
- part of the dutch speed skating team didn't attend several world cup matches this season in order to train on Tenerife. And to go on and all win medals later on.

Is this a mere coincidence? Really the result of altitude, even though its effects are doubted (and in the last case, training in the Alps makes at least as much sense)?

http://velonews.competitor.com/2010...rol-ring-used-in-horses-livestock_147239?news

Spain’s Guardia Civil arrested 34 people connected to an alleged trafficking ring involving clenbuterol in the Canary Islands that could bolster the argument by Alberto Contador that his positive test during this year’s Tour de France came from eating contaminated meat.

I really do wonder...

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Still looking for details, but this seems pretty conclusive:

The Guardia Civil have arrested 34 people in Tenerife and Gran Canaria on suspicion of running a doping ring that has been illegally selling a clenbuterol-based product. Those arrested have been charged with fraud and crimes against public health.

Among those arrested were 13 pharmacists, eight pharmacy assistants, nine veterinarians, a cattle-breeder, a pharmaceutical salesman, a bodybuilder and a cyclist.

http://canaryislandsnews.net/?p=208

This is a story from October 2010. Remind me again when Sky kicked into top gear?

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Wow "justice" is slow, eh?

Gran Canaria 'doping doctor' to take stand today
The Canarian doctor accused of being beind one of the biggest sports doping networks in history is due to take the stand today in the headline-making trial which started in Madrid yesterday.

Madrid - 29.01.2013 - Journalists from many countries are covering the trial of Dr Eufemiano Fuentes, who is said to have masterminded an elaborate doping ring in cycling and other sports until 2006. Raids on his office led to the discovery of almost 200 bags of blood for transfusion to top sporting figures, the prosecution alleges. Fuentes is on trial for public health offences with his sister and the heads of three well-known Spanish cycling team

http://www.islandconnections.eu/1000003/1000043/0/38832/daily-news-article.html


Hot damn. I must have missed that somewhere somehow wtf - Fuentes was [edit] / is living on the island next to the one containing Mt Teide - Team Sky's favourite volcano!?

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Gran Canaria and Tenerife are popular training locations for professional cyclists due to the terrain and possibility of altitude training on the latter. The alleged doping doctor Eufemiano Fuentes, who was at the epicentre of the Operación Puerto doping affair, lives in Gran Canaria.

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/6...vestigation-in-Gran-Canaria-and-Tenerife.aspx

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Bradley Wiggins reveals Team Sky's explosive secret that has put him in contention for Tour de France
Bradley Wiggins is in the best form of his life. No British rider has ever put together a series of results like he has and the cycling world is asking how he has done it. A few cynics are even beginning to question whether his performances have been legal.



Wiggins's answer? To issue an invitation to Pico del Teide in Tenerife, one of Europe’s highest volcanoes and his training camp for the past year – the secret, Wiggins says, behind his success.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ot...put-him-in-contention-for-Tour-de-France.html

You know. Pico del Teide. Just across the pond from Dr Fuentes' place.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Ok my bad map reading - it's Telde on Gran Canaria - but that's the island next to Tenerife, where Pico del Teide is located.

So not on the same island, no. Right next to it though. I am sure nothing dodgy is going on.

So:

Fuentes lives on Gran Canaria.
Doping ring he was allegedly the head of was operating on Tenerife and Gran Canaria.
Pico del Teide - where Wiggins admits to training for the entirety of 2012 - is on Tenerife, where part of the doping ring was located.
The drug of choice in this instance was Clenbuterol, being injected into an animal and the trace from the vet back up the chain led to 34 arrests.
Operacion Puerto involved Fuentes and blood bags, but this operation involving clenbuterol is known as "Operacion Viar".