Wigans goes there. Cadence!

[bigcog]

Any chance of Froome being awarded a 4th TDF title retrospectively, now that would be funny for so many reasons. I know there isn't but still one can dream.

 

[thehog]

Re:

Any chance of Froome being awarded a 4th TDF title retrospectively, now that would be funny for so many reasons. I know there isn't but still one can dream.

We can only hope so. Clean Froome the real winner of the 2012 Tour & first Kenyan winner :lol:

 

[buckle]

Swart sticking the boot in, the Froome's must be loving this...

Following those tweets, he spoke at length to CyclingTips and elaborated on his feelings. “I am not comfortable with them trying to say they are a scrupulously clean team that does things by the book and ethics,” he said.

In the course of the below interview, Swart discusses the TUE situation, the team’s claimed transparency, it hiring of the now-banned doctor Geert Leinders, his views on Bradley Wiggins, and what he thinks the team must do next.

He also explains why, despite his unease about Sky and the TUE leak, he believes Froome actually comes out looking more credible as a result of what has happened.

‘YOU ARE NOT LIKELY TO FORGET AN INTRAMUSCULAR INJECTION BEFORE EVERY GRAND TOUR THAT YOU HAVE COMPETED IN FOR THE WIN.’

http://cyclingtips.com/2016/09/team-sky-tue-controversy-why-one-medical-expert-has-real-concerns/

Pressure mounting on Wiggo, maybe he cracks, hits the bottle again puts on some Paul Weller on the stereo and calls the press to spill the beans.

The WHO's "Won't get fooled again" might be thematically apt. I sense a new thread coming on here.

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

'In a statement, a spokesman for Wiggins said: “Brad’s passing comment regarding needles in the 2012 book referred to the historic and illegal practice of intravenous injections of performance-enhancing substances, which was the subject of a law change by (world cycling’s governing body) the UCI in 2011.
“The triamcinolone injection that is referred to in the Wada leaks is an intramuscular treatment for asthma and is fully approved by the sport’s governing bodies. Brad stands by his comment concerning the use of illegal intravenous needle injections.” '

Source: http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/other-sports/bradley-wiggins-rubbishes-links-to-controversial-belgian-doctor-1.2795366?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

So, Wiggins no needles comment means no needles apart from when he needed needles.

Triamcinolone was prescribed for allergy to polen, not for asthma. He doesn't even remember what **** he was taking for what!

That's very true, the TUEs in question were for pollen allergy and not asthma. He really is making a hash of the entire eposiode

 

[veganrob]

I totally disagree with Swart in thinking this somehow makes Froome look better. On the contrary it helps to explain how Froome, Thomas and others are able to drop weight so quickly and not lose their power. Besides, Sky didn't need TUE's because of the butter on their head. The clean saviors of pro wrestling, I mean cycling.

 

[pastronef]

Swart sticking the boot in, the Froome's must be loving this...

Following those tweets, he spoke at length to CyclingTips and elaborated on his feelings. “I am not comfortable with them trying to say they are a scrupulously clean team that does things by the book and ethics,” he said.

In the course of the below interview, Swart discusses the TUE situation, the team’s claimed transparency, it hiring of the now-banned doctor Geert Leinders, his views on Bradley Wiggins, and what he thinks the team must do next.

He also explains why, despite his unease about Sky and the TUE leak, he believes Froome actually comes out looking more credible as a result of what has happened.

‘YOU ARE NOT LIKELY TO FORGET AN INTRAMUSCULAR INJECTION BEFORE EVERY GRAND TOUR THAT YOU HAVE COMPETED IN FOR THE WIN.’

http://cyclingtips.com/2016/09/team-sky-tue-controversy-why-one-medical-expert-has-real-concerns/

isn´t that fine? isn´t it beginning to crack? let´s welcome Swarts comments, since we´ve long waited someone who knows what he´s talking about to point to some of Sky´s problems.

 

[bigcog]

Re:

I totally disagree with Swart in thinking this somehow makes Froome look better. On the contrary it helps to explain how Froome, Thomas and others are able to drop weight so quickly and not lose their power. Besides, Sky didn't need TUE's because of the butter on their head. The clean saviors of pro wrestling, I mean cycling.

Why ? It wasn't Froome taking kenalog just before 3 GT's, it was Wiggins.The release of TUE info confirmed what Froome had already said to the media, and if anything makes him look better/honest. He's never used a TUE in a GT, and in fact turned down the opportunity in last years TDF. Can't comment on Thomas as I am not aware of his TUE's. Perhaps you are Wiggins fan ? Or do you mean guilt by association which given Froome's and Wiggin's fractious association seems a bit rich.

 

[Amnes2015]

This is pretty bad for Wiggo

So on all his 3GT's that he targeted at Sky, just before them, he got a big injection with a drug that made Armstrong test positive a few times, requiring backdated TUE's. The difference is that Wiggo's are pre-dated

There is no way Walsh spins this in to a non problem.

If i would take a guess it is that he will crucify Wiggo on sunday.

there is blood in the water

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

I totally disagree with Swart in thinking this somehow makes Froome look better. On the contrary it helps to explain how Froome, Thomas and others are able to drop weight so quickly and not lose their power. Besides, Sky didn't need TUE's because of the butter on their head. The clean saviors of pro wrestling, I mean cycling.

Why ? It wasn't Froome taking kenalog just before 3 GT's, it was Wiggins.The release of TUE info confirmed what Froome had already said to the media, and if anything makes him look better/honest. He's never used a TUE in a GT, and in fact turned down the opportunity in last years TDF. Can't comment on Thomas as I am not aware of his TUE's. Perhaps you are Wiggins fan ? Or do you mean guilt by association which given Froome's and Wiggin's fractious association seems a bit rich.

The TUEs are tip of the iceberg in the PED quotient. CIRC uncovered riders taking up to 30tablets a day during GTs.

 

[Benotti69]

So where are all the big names defending Wiggins? No word from Cav, Hoy, Boardman, Kittel and all those others who put the boot into Ricco, Di Luca and others?

 

[bigcog]

Re:

So where are all the big names defending Wiggins? No word from Cav, Hoy, Boardman, Kittel and all those others who put the boot into Ricco, Di Luca and others?

I doubt Cav is very fussed about defending him :lol:

 

[Puckfiend]

Re:

So where are all the big names defending Wiggins? No word from Cav, Hoy, Boardman, Kittel and all those others who put the boot into Ricco, Di Luca and others?

They are praying that those pesky Russian Bears are looking at their TUEs!

 

[bigcog]

I would imagine Lizzie Armitstead is also having a big belly laugh at the moment too ...

 

[ontheroad]

Cowardly from Wiggins releasing a statement via a 'spokesperson'. Hadn't the guts to front up and answer the questions. It's his hypocrisy in relation to his previous words on doping that grates most. Absolutely grates.

As for Swart, his comments on Wiggins are very credible and do carry a lot of weight coming from someone of his standing. It's clear to me that Swart appears to have more of a personal connection with Froome than Wiggins, therefore I'm not surprised at him using this as an opportunity to defend Froome even if I don't see where he is coming from.

 

[sniper]

I wonder what Greg Lemond will be thinking seeing how Wiggins plagiarized his storyline.

Why wouldn’t you take an iron shot?
Greg: I was needle-averse. From the day I was born, I’ve had these chronic kidney infections…

You were needle-averse?
Greg: I had to go to the doctor to get antibiotic shots (for the kidney infection) as a kid. I remember I ran out of the office and my mom was chasing me through the forest and I’ve always (hated needles)…Especially a needle in the ****.

And that was right through your career?
Greg: Yeah.

No injections?
Greg: I’ve never had an IV, never believed you needed it – that’s where Köchli was really good but also I did my own research and unless you are on the verge of death and heat exhaustion, there is no reason to have an IV, zero reason.

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=17091&p=1190970&hilit=lemond+needle+injection#p1190970

And no wonder Race Radio is keeping quiet about the Wiggins thing.

 

[Benotti69]

The silence from Richard Moore, Fotheringhams, Sykes, all the arse lickers who scrawl about cycling is deafening!

Fotheringham got a lend of a Ford for July for his jaunt around France. Ford sponsor Sky. This is why it is so easy for the dopers, when sickofanthicks like these guys are considered sports journalists.

 

[zlev11]

maybe Wiggins is just so irrelevant now that nobody gives a crap? that would be funny, too.

 

[PremierAndrew]

Re: Re:

Any chance of Froome being awarded a 4th TDF title retrospectively, now that would be funny for so many reasons. I know there isn't but still one can dream.

We can only hope so. Clean Froome the real winner of the 2012 Tour & first Kenyan winner :lol:

If Brad cracks, I think we may suddenly have a witness willing to testify against Froome

 

[Rollthedice]

Re: Re:

Any chance of Froome being awarded a 4th TDF title retrospectively, now that would be funny for so many reasons. I know there isn't but still one can dream.

We can only hope so. Clean Froome the real winner of the 2012 Tour & first Kenyan winner :lol:

If Brad cracks, I think we may suddenly have a witness willing to testify against Froome

Brad Landis will be the undoing of Chris Froomestrong.

 

[TeflonDub]

Just to recap:
1. Fancy Bears reveal Wiggins' TUE history.
2. Twitterati connects the dots around the timing of injections (June in TdF years, April before Giro). Switch from inhalers to injections in 2011 coincident with Leinders' arrival at Team Sky.
3. Wiggins responds with 'nothing to see here' statement
4. Lawton in DM reminds everyone that Wiggins said in his 2012 book "I never had an injection"
5. Jaksche makes hilarious statement that Wiggo must be allergic to GT's, but more tellingly highlights a quote from Brailsford associating TUE abuse with Lance.
6. Growing questions about possible Leinders role securing TUEs as Team Sky, Brailsford and Team Wiggo stay schtum.
7. Wiggins PR forced to come out with second statement. Clarified that Wiggins stands over his "never had an injection" quote as it only related to intravenous (IV) PED injections that were subject of the 2011 UCI rule change, not intramuscular (IM) injections. It also said Leinders was not involved in the TUE.
8. Wiggins' second PR statement started to blow up in their face on several levels.
- Firstly, it had been predicted the day before: https://twitter.com/TeflonDub/status/776732644067377156
- Secondly, it ignored the fact that the original quote included some qualifications to the "never had an injection" statement, including mention of vaccinations which are of course IM, not IV.
- Thirdly, the statement says the triamcinolone injection was for asthma, but the TUE was to treat his allergies.
9. Dr. Swart says all this collectively looks very bad for Wiggins and Team Sky, as it is littered with contradictions of private actions versus publicly stated policy, notwithstanding the dubious merits of the need for a triamcinolone injection in the first place.
10. The hilarity continued with Hog noting that the TUE for the Giro mentioned an allergy to Timothy Grass, noteworthy as "an abundant perennial grass native to most of Europe except for the Mediterranean region". :lol:

Which way now?
1. Walsh has promised a Sunday Times' piece. It will be interesting to see if he doubles-down in his support of all things Team Sky or if we see the first sign of him creating some separation from Wiggins.
2. The distancing from Leinders is interesting, as it raises a new series of unanswered questions, notably: if not Leinders, then whom? Freeman? Peters?
3. Given that Dr. Freeman is the current doctor on British Cycling, which had such a sterling performance in Rio, might the suspicion that his medical bag of tricks expanded to request aggressive TUE's (the nature of which immediately had everybody assuming it must be the work of Leinders) come back to haunt Team GB?
4. The ENT consultant, Mr. Hargreaves, who is listed in the TUE as the medical expert who deemed the treatment necessary, is he the Dr. Bonar of the north, or somebody with a level of specialist knowledge that could make any suspicions over the propriety of Brad's robust therapeutic strategy moot by delivering a diagnostic coup-de-grace?
5. Can the Wiggins' PR team recover from the usually fatal blow of being caught in, er, certain inconsistencies, in their attempt to make the questions go away that wouldn't go away by themselves?

Who else thinks this is only just starting?

 

[veganrob]

Re: Re:

I totally disagree with Swart in thinking this somehow makes Froome look better. On the contrary it helps to explain how Froome, Thomas and others are able to drop weight so quickly and not lose their power. Besides, Sky didn't need TUE's because of the butter on their head. The clean saviors of pro wrestling, I mean cycling.

Why ? It wasn't Froome taking kenalog just before 3 GT's, it was Wiggins.The release of TUE info confirmed what Froome had already said to the media, and if anything makes him look better/honest. He's never used a TUE in a GT, and in fact turned down the opportunity in last years TDF. Can't comment on Thomas as I am not aware of his TUE's. Perhaps you are Wiggins fan ? Or do you mean guilt by association which given Froome's and Wiggin's fractious association seems a bit rich.

Yes, I am talking about more guilt by association. The whole team. And no, I hadn't seen Thomas TUE's. That is why my comment from Leinders about "butter on their head". No worries

 

[gooner]

Re:

snip..

I would say Freeman. He did so for Uran back in 2011.

SATURDAY – Stage 6 Les Gets – Le Collet d’Allevard

The doc is in the hotel’s bar, laptop open, phone pressed to his ear, looking concerned.
Rigoberto Uran has been suffering with breathing difficulties for the past couple of days and Dr Freeman is trying to get a Therapeutic Use Exemption for a drug to treat him.

“It can be very tricky, especially at the weekends,” he says. Yesterday, Dr Freeman contacted the race’s anti-doping doctor and put the case for a TUE. The drug is a steroid that can mimic a corticosteroid in the urine and can be misused.

“Rigo has got a chest problem,” he says. “With most asthma patients, you will never find out specifically what causes it. We’ve tested for pollen and in Rigo’s case it doesn’t appear to be that.

“The ADAMS [World Anti-Doping Agency’s Administration and Management System] website can be tricky. Your worst fear is that you’re stuck in the mountains with no internet connection but we would not give anything that’s on the list to a rider until we had everything confirmed through the proper channels.”

Could he not use the ADAMS hotline and make a phone call? “That works well Monday to Friday but not so well at the weekends,” he says wryly, acknowledging that the onus is always on the athlete and the team doctor to ensure everything is done properly.

It took a few tries but eventually, he got through to Dr Mario Zorzoli of the UCI and gained the necessary permission.

But isn’t there an argument that if Uran is unwell and his breathing is seriously affected, he should pull out of the race? “He may well do that. But he’s an ambitious young man who wants to support Bradley and he wants to secure his Tour team.

“We are not talking about performance-enhancement here. The TUE is designed to enable an athlete to take medication that a normal human being would be prescribed by a doctor. It cannot be right that you and I could go to a doctor and be prescribed something that an athlete with the same condition could not use.”

Dr Freeman used to work for Bolton Wanderers Football Club before joining Sky. He’s also worked on golf’s European Tour. Despite the challenges of being away from home for so much of the year, he enjoys the role.

I ask what he makes of the UCI’s new no-needles policy. “I think it’s fantastic,” he says. “It takes away a large window of opportunity for a lot of products. It means that there are no short cuts to proper rest and recovery. And it also removes that ladder of progression. If riders get used to vitamin injections as a matter of routine, it makes it easier to not question what’s in the syringe.”

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/all-aboard-the-magic-bus-3974

 

[Random Direction]

Some questions:
a. How much w/kg did wiggo add for the GT's by dropping weight
b. where would that have put him on some of the key climbs?
c. what are the skyborgs using to keep the line on the climbs?
d. why did Zorzoli approve the TUE? Was this to ensure a British TdF champion and grow the sport?
e. Who will get him drunk or high enough to spill the beans on sky and the uci?
f. Is there a personal bank transfer occuring right now between Chris and Brad?

 

[Night Rider]

Good summary teflondub, I would say Walsh will go hard on Wiggems, soft on Froome. What time is the article out? If someone could post full text on reddit that would be great

 

[TeflonDub]

Re: Re:

snip..

I would say Freeman. He did so for Uran back in 2011.

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/all-aboard-the-magic-bus-3974

Agreed. But they think that by saying "Leinders had nothing to do with it", that line of questioning ends. My sense is that it places Freeman's modus operandi firmly in the spotlight. I wouldn't say Freeman is ecstatic to see Wiggins kick Leinders firmly off the island while holding on to his leg for dear life. I wouldn't say anybody in BC/Team GB enjoys having the general cloud of suspicion that had been cauterized by Leinders' release from Sky being reopened with everybody wondering if the brains behind suspiciously aggressive TUEs for IM injections is the same guy overseeing their, er, "preparations".