Wigans goes there. Cadence!

[TeflonDub]

Re:

Good summary teflondub, I would say Walsh will go hard on Wiggems, soft on Froome. What time is the article out? If someone could post full text on reddit that would be great

Cheers. It's up now. http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/sport/it-looks-bad-brad-k9s50whdd

Headline and intro here: "It looks bad, Brad".
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/viewtopic.php?p=2025339#p2025339

 

[Night Rider]

Thanks, now I want to read the whole thing.

 

[Miburo]

This is the end for wiggins. No way he's gonna get out of this one.

I actually thought he wasn't gonna get caught but 3 TEU's before major GT's and lied about it too...

 

[bigcog]

Re:

Thanks, now I want to read the whole thing.

Basically, it says Wiggins TUEs are an entirely different kettle of fish to Froome's who's were already known etc. State's the timing is problematic and quotes one unidentified former Postal rider saying oral prednisolone clears your airways and doesn't affect performance, whereas kenalog is a powerful drug which helps performance a lot.

 

[TeflonDub]

Re:

Thanks, now I want to read the whole thing.

The Times has softened its paywall.Register a new account and you can read it. Here's a short summary: http://forum.cyclingnews.com/viewtopic.php?p=2025348#p2025348

 

[TeflonDub]

Re:

Which way now?
1. Walsh has promised a Sunday Times' piece. It will be interesting to see if he doubles-down in his support of all things Team Sky or if we see the first sign of him creating some separation from Wiggins.
2. The distancing from Leinders is interesting, as it raises a new series of unanswered questions, notably: if not Leinders, then whom? Freeman? Peters?
3. Given that Dr. Freeman is the current doctor on British Cycling, which had such a sterling performance in Rio, might the suspicion that his medical bag of tricks expanded to request aggressive TUE's (the nature of which immediately had everybody assuming it must be the work of Leinders) come back to haunt Team GB?
4. The ENT consultant, Mr. Hargreaves, who is listed in the TUE as the medical expert who deemed the treatment necessary, is he the Dr. Bonar of the north, or somebody with a level of specialist knowledge that could make any suspicions over the propriety of Brad's robust therapeutic strategy moot by delivering a diagnostic coup-de-grace?
5. Can the Wiggins' PR team recover from the usually fatal blow of being caught in, er, certain inconsistencies, in their attempt to make the questions go away that wouldn't go away by themselves?

Who else thinks this is only just starting?

Question 1 answered. The walls just started closing in a bit tighter on Wiggo. Walsh: "This looks bad, Brad."

 

[BullsFan22]

Re: Re:

Which way now?
1. Walsh has promised a Sunday Times' piece. It will be interesting to see if he doubles-down in his support of all things Team Sky or if we see the first sign of him creating some separation from Wiggins.
2. The distancing from Leinders is interesting, as it raises a new series of unanswered questions, notably: if not Leinders, then whom? Freeman? Peters?
3. Given that Dr. Freeman is the current doctor on British Cycling, which had such a sterling performance in Rio, might the suspicion that his medical bag of tricks expanded to request aggressive TUE's (the nature of which immediately had everybody assuming it must be the work of Leinders) come back to haunt Team GB?
4. The ENT consultant, Mr. Hargreaves, who is listed in the TUE as the medical expert who deemed the treatment necessary, is he the Dr. Bonar of the north, or somebody with a level of specialist knowledge that could make any suspicions over the propriety of Brad's robust therapeutic strategy moot by delivering a diagnostic coup-de-grace?
5. Can the Wiggins' PR team recover from the usually fatal blow of being caught in, er, certain inconsistencies, in their attempt to make the questions go away that wouldn't go away by themselves?

Who else thinks this is only just starting?

Question 1 answered. The walls just started closing in a bit tighter on Wiggo. Walsh: "This looks bad, Brad."

Or is Walsh simply writing a ruse, as in, 'well, i am going to pretend like I am being critical of a British athlete...'

 

[TeflonDub]

Re: Re:

Which way now?
1. Walsh has promised a Sunday Times' piece. It will be interesting to see if he doubles-down in his support of all things Team Sky or if we see the first sign of him creating some separation from Wiggins.
2. The distancing from Leinders is interesting, as it raises a new series of unanswered questions, notably: if not Leinders, then whom? Freeman? Peters?
3. Given that Dr. Freeman is the current doctor on British Cycling, which had such a sterling performance in Rio, might the suspicion that his medical bag of tricks expanded to request aggressive TUE's (the nature of which immediately had everybody assuming it must be the work of Leinders) come back to haunt Team GB?
4. The ENT consultant, Mr. Hargreaves, who is listed in the TUE as the medical expert who deemed the treatment necessary, is he the Dr. Bonar of the north, or somebody with a level of specialist The distancing from Leinders is interesting, as it raises a new series of unanswered questions, notably: if not Leinders, then whom? Freeman? Peters?
3. Given tknowledge that could make any suspicions over the propriety of Brad's robust therapeutic strategy moot by delivering a diagnostic coup-de-grace?
5. Can the Wiggins' PR team recover from the usually fatal blow of being caught in, er, certain inconsistencies, in their attempt to make the questions go away that wouldn't go away by themselves?

Who else thinks this is only just starting?

Question 1 answered. The walls just started closing in a bit tighter on Wiggo. Walsh: "This looks bad, Brad."

Or is Walsh simply writing a ruse, as in, 'well, i am going to pretend like I am being critical of a British athlete...'

No, I read the whole thing. It wasn't hard hitting, but it's definitely a shift. He refers a lot to the 13 weeks he spent living with them in 2013, and this article is the first sign that he now thinks that everything he saw there was not as pure as he was lead to believe. He insulates Froome completely from criticism, and looks over his schoolmarmish glasses to deliver a firm 'tut-tut' to Brailsford.

It's not a sea-change, but you sense that we have just reached an inflection point. Peak-Team Sky is behind us, and the tide is definitely starting to ebb. Write September 17, 2016 down, it will be an important day when the full history of Team Sky is written. They tried to brazen their way in a 'nothing to see here' fashion past hacked documents, found they couldn't quiet the storm once Lawton's DM piece was expanded on by Ingle in The Guardian. Wiggins issued a second statement that back-fired spectacularly with its literally incredible attempt to limit the scope of the 2012 "no injections" quote as if they hadn't read the full sentence in 'My Story' before finalizing their response. They ended up taking black eyes from previously staunch supporters in Swart and Walsh (the latter already so compromised in his inability to see the parallels with them and them and USPS to the point of being a laughing stock).

Shots fired. The dam is showing its first sign of cracking. More stones left to overturn.

 

[TeflonDub]

Tip of the hat to Shane Stokes at Cycling Tips who is one guy who will be able to look over his body of work with pride when all is said and done. Important interview today with Swart as referenced extensively earlier. ICYMI http://cyclingtips.com/2016/09/team-sky-tue-controversy-why-one-medical-expert-has-real-concerns/

 

[PremierAndrew]

Wiggins is in serious trouble here

Teflon, if you've read the whole article, could you post any interesting extracts onto here?

 

[thehog]

Re:

Wiggins is in serious trouble here

Teflon, if you've read the whole article, could you post any interesting extracts onto here?

Walsh gives Froome a pass saying prednisone is not performance enhancing. Wiggins is getting thrown under the bus but looks like Sky have closed up shop as well.

These are not performance-enhancing drugs and can now be used without a therapeutic exemption. It is the TUEs ­Wiggins received while riding for Team Sky that are problematic. First, the timing. In 2011, three days before the start of the Tour de France for which Wiggins was one of the favourites, he was given a TUE to have a one-off 40mg injection of the powerful corticosteroid triamcinolone acetonide.

A year later he was the favourite for the 2012 Tour and four days before the race was given permission for another one-off injection of triamcinolone. Ten months later and 12 days before the start of his major target for that year, the 2013 Giro d’Italia, Wiggins got another TUE for a 40mg injection of triamcinolone.

Between the second and third TUEs Wiggins wrote an autobiography, My Time, that covered his 2012 Tour victory. It may be understandable that Wiggins did not want to mention the TUEs, fearing that fans might think he was seeking an unfair advantage, but he went further than not mentioning them. “In British cycling culture, at the word ‘needle’ — or the sight of one — you go, ‘Oh s***’. It’s a complete taboo … I’ve never had an injection, apart from I’ve had my vaccinations and on occasion I’ve been put on a drip, when I’ve come down with diarrhoea or something.”

Yesterday Wiggins insisted that what he had meant in his reference to “needles” was that he had not had IVs, that is products fed into his system intravenously. In their seven-year history, Team Sky have applied for 13 TUEs. Given the number of races, especially the number of grand tours, that is not a high number. What is surprising is that Wiggins should have accounted for three, and the timing of them: shortly before his biggest race of that season.

Out of the question: Dave Brailsford has repeatedly voiced his opposition to doping practices

Opinions differ on the performance-enhancing qualities of triamcinolone acetonide but there is agreement that it is a potent steroid. In his first Tour de France “victory” it was the corticoid found in Lance Armstrong’s urine and the American only avoided a doping ban because his team backdated a medical prescription, which the cycling authorities then accepted.

One former Postal rider, who asked not to be named, said that in his career he had used the two drugs given to Wiggins and Froome under the TUE system. “Oral prednisolone works on clearing your airways but it doesn’t affect performance. Injected Kenalog [triamcinolone], that’s ­different. That is a powerful drug and it sure as hell helps performance.”

David Millar described having the same intramuscular injection given to Wiggins in 2011, 2012 and 2013. “It is probably the most potent drug out there,” he said, before adding: “With the right prescription it could be used legally.”

 

[TomLPC]

Damnit, I had money down on Richie pizzler or Little Pete being the first one to fall, but it looks like wiggos being closed in on here. The guy should've just kept quiet.

That pre-giro TUE is the smoking gun, shameful ***

 

[TomLPC]

Re:

Any chance of Froome being awarded a 4th TDF title retrospectively, now that would be funny for so many reasons. I know there isn't but still one can dream.

I think, however unlikely, if that were to happen it would be one of the funniest things in cycling history, along with the nuclear shitstorm that would follow

 

[thehog]

Re:

Just to recap:
1. Fancy Bears reveal Wiggins' TUE history.
2. Twitterati connects the dots around the timing of injections (June in TdF years, April before Giro). Switch from inhalers to injections in 2011 coincident with Leinders' arrival at Team Sky.
3. Wiggins responds with 'nothing to see here' statement
4. Lawton in DM reminds everyone that Wiggins said in his 2012 book "I never had an injection"
5. Jaksche makes hilarious statement that Wiggo must be allergic to GT's, but more tellingly highlights a quote from Brailsford associating TUE abuse with Lance.
6. Growing questions about possible Leinders role securing TUEs as Team Sky, Brailsford and Team Wiggo stay schtum.
7. Wiggins PR forced to come out with second statement. Clarified that Wiggins stands over his "never had an injection" quote as it only related to intravenous (IV) PED injections that were subject of the 2011 UCI rule change, not intramuscular (IM) injections. It also said Leinders was not involved in the TUE.
8. Wiggins' second PR statement started to blow up in their face on several levels.
- Firstly, it had been predicted the day before: https://twitter.com/TeflonDub/status/776732644067377156
- Secondly, it ignored the fact that the original quote included some qualifications to the "never had an injection" statement, including mention of vaccinations which are of course IM, not IV.
- Thirdly, the statement says the triamcinolone injection was for asthma, but the TUE was to treat his allergies.
9. Dr. Swart says all this collectively looks very bad for Wiggins and Team Sky, as it is littered with contradictions of private actions versus publicly stated policy, notwithstanding the dubious merits of the need for a triamcinolone injection in the first place.
10. The hilarity continued with Hog noting that the TUE for the Giro mentioned an allergy to Timothy Grass, noteworthy as "an abundant perennial grass native to most of Europe except for the Mediterranean region". :lol:

Which way now?
1. Walsh has promised a Sunday Times' piece. It will be interesting to see if he doubles-down in his support of all things Team Sky or if we see the first sign of him creating some separation from Wiggins.
2. The distancing from Leinders is interesting, as it raises a new series of unanswered questions, notably: if not Leinders, then whom? Freeman? Peters?
3. Given that Dr. Freeman is the current doctor on British Cycling, which had such a sterling performance in Rio, might the suspicion that his medical bag of tricks expanded to request aggressive TUE's (the nature of which immediately had everybody assuming it must be the work of Leinders) come back to haunt Team GB?
4. The ENT consultant, Mr. Hargreaves, who is listed in the TUE as the medical expert who deemed the treatment necessary, is he the Dr. Bonar of the north, or somebody with a level of specialist knowledge that could make any suspicions over the propriety of Brad's robust therapeutic strategy moot by delivering a diagnostic coup-de-grace?
5. Can the Wiggins' PR team recover from the usually fatal blow of being caught in, er, certain inconsistencies, in their attempt to make the questions go away that wouldn't go away by themselves?

Who else thinks this is only just starting?

A good analysis. The worrying aspect was if the Twitter wankers and pseudo-scientists didn't do the heavy lifting this would have got much further than Wiggins first statement. It wasn't until there was just too much evidence that it got picked up and carried further by the media.

 

[thehog]

I would add:

Kenalog injection is given by injection into the muscle of the buttock in situations where a lasting corticosteroid effect is needed. The triamcinolone is slowly absorbed into the bloodstream from this area, so one injection produces an effect for about three weeks.

He also left the 2013 Giro with a chest infection;

Corticosteroids decrease the body's natural immune and inflammatory responses. They may increase your susceptibility to infections and can also mask the symptoms of infections, making you think they are less serious than they are. For this reason, it is important to consult your doctor if you get any signs of infection during treatment.

And the anger, mood swings;

Corticosteroid treatment, especially with high doses, can alter mood and behaviour early in treatment. People may experience confusion, irritability

http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/medicines/a6953/kenalog-intra-articular-intramuscular-injection-triamcinolone/

 

[DirtyWorks]

Great work as always guys. How many years ahead of this story were The Clinic 12?

BC/Sky clearly laying this at Wiggo's feet. That might lead to some interesting revelations.

 

[Jacques (7 ch)]

Would dearly love to know who the Wiggo 'spokesperson' is.

Fran?

The mighty Lady Cath?

Sky PR?

The Times was putting the boot in yesterday, 'The key questions Sky need to answer'. End of piece: Team Sky declined to comment.

Last thing: wasn't Kenalog a brand name for dog food several (like 20 or 30) years ago, in he UK?

 

[tramadol]

Re: Re:

I wouldn't say Freeman is ecstatic to see Wiggins kick Leinders firmly off the island while holding on to his leg for dear life. I wouldn't say anybody in BC/Team GB enjoys having the general cloud of suspicion that had been cauterized by Leinders' release from Sky being reopened with everybody wondering if the brains behind suspiciously aggressive TUEs for IM injections is the same guy overseeing their, er, "preparations".

Dr Freeman was hired by Sam Allardyce at Bolton. It is worth noting that Sam Allardyce had an epiphany when he played in America...

How Sam Allardyce had a 'life-changing' experience at the Tampa Bay Rowdies

Sam Allardyce played just 11 matches for the Tampa Bay Rowdies in the summer of 1983 but he has described his brief time there as "life-changing"... “We had access to all the Bucs’ backroom staff and their training facilities. The way they prepared during the week opened my eyes and was... one of those life-changing experiences," Allardyce recalled in his autobiography Big Sam.

“I learned there was so much more to conditioning than what we did in England..."

Their attention to detail for every player was staggering. There were physios and doctors available on site and mobile scanners to instantly check on injuries...

"Between the Buccaneers and the University of South Florida, we had all the facilities. We used to practice over the road from the Buccaneers' facility and they had everything that we didn't have. Our physio [Ken Shields] was very good friends with the physios at the Buccaneers so we always had access to their physio room...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football...d-a-life-changing-experience-at-the-tampa-ba/

So Allardyce's eyes were opened by the professionalism and sports science displayed in America, particularly in regard to the Tampa Bay Buccaneers NFL team.

A word or two from their former players:

Grimes, a member of Baylor's 1980 Southwest Conference championship team, says he started using drugs in the NFL. Pro football, he says, was far more demanding than college ball; everybody hits hard in the NFL and the season is much longer. Grimes describes the Tampa Bay locker room during his playing days as a pharmaceutical free-for-all. He used steroids to build the muscle that fended off teammates who wanted his job and opponents who wanted his quarterback. He also started using sleeping pills after games: "When you play at the NFL level," he says, "it is hard to unwind."

Painkillers, Grimes adds, were readily accessible. Team doctors would pass them out freely. Teammates who had leftovers would share them with their friends. Grimes and other players would also break into the team drug cabinet and help themselves. "You could stick around until everyone was gone, then go raid the drug safe," Grimes says. "We'd take handfuls of stuff out of there. There was no accountability." http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/f...illers-retirement-talks-time-article-1.379932

"The game is violent, the players are in heavy combat and they need chemicals to survive.. those chemicals could be painkillers, cortisone shots or steroids... The 31 year old, who plans to entitle his book "war in the trenches, the chemical battlefield" said he used steroids for about 2 years, and was using them in 1984 while playing for Tampa Bay." https://news.google.com/newspapers?...AIBAJ&sjid=NXcNAAAAIBAJ&pg=3012,3873497&hl=en

So Allardyce learned about "professionalism" and "attention to detail" in an environment described as a "pharmaceutical free-for-all" facilitated by team doctors.

He later hired Dr Freeman.

It's all circumstantial of course, but thinking about it might help ease the boredom momentarily for bone idle Twitter wankers with nothing better to do with their time.

 

[samhocking]

I would add:

Kenalog injection is given by injection into the muscle of the buttock in situations where a lasting corticosteroid effect is needed. The triamcinolone is slowly absorbed into the bloodstream from this area, so one injection produces an effect for about three weeks.

He also left the 2013 Giro with a chest infection;

Corticosteroids decrease the body's natural immune and inflammatory responses. They may increase your susceptibility to infections and can also mask the symptoms of infections, making you think they are less serious than they are. For this reason, it is important to consult your doctor if you get any signs of infection during treatment.

And the anger, mood swings;

Corticosteroid treatment, especially with high doses, can alter mood and behaviour early in treatment. People may experience confusion, irritability

http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/medicines/a6953/kenalog-intra-articular-intramuscular-injection-triamcinolone/

You do realise that for Kenalog to have a steroid response to aid your performance/recovery/weight etc etc, you would need to be injected daily for it? A one time 40mg injection that the TUE covers is typical of hayfever treatment and only supresses your immune system for that 24 hours. For any another treatment it has to be daily because your body metabolises Kenalog in 24 hours.

It's complete nonsense what's being touted as doping with Kenalog, from one TUE. Wiggins would need a daily injection during the race to have any performance benefit. This would take him well above the MDL if tested and so without a daily TUE it can only point to allergy/asthma treatment.

Hay Fever/Pollen Asthma
Usual: 40-100mg single inj

Steroid Response
2.5-100mg/day

 

[thehog]

Stokes and CyclingTips are killing it, great interview with Jaksche on his use of the same drug as Wiggins:

Asked what the benefits were, Jaksche said that there were clear boosts.

“The effect was extreme. Cortisone reduces inflammation in your body, number one. It is also a little bit pushy as it is a hormone. So it causes a certain hormone rush.

“On one hand you are at [race] weight and you are more willing to perform, and then on the other hand it is a strong pain killer and an inflammation killer. So your recovery is shorter and the pain you are going through is less.

“It makes you very skinny. It burns fat. If you do it at the beginning of the Tour, you are going to lose another one to two kilos in the first week. You are going to suffer less. You are going to be less tired as your recuperation is faster because of the anti-inflammatory effects. It is the old school of doping.”

http://cyclingtips.com/2016/09/jaksche-on-skys-tue-controversy-we-used-the-same-excuse-in-my-era/

The latter comment has been in mind this week. While Wiggins’ use of Triamcinolone acetonide was permitted because of his TUE, it has raised unease. That’s partly because of his 2012 autobiography My Time, in which he categorically stated that he had not used injections.

It’s also generated questions as Triamcinolone acetonide is so potent and because British Cycling – and Team Sky – have publicly stated that they have a no needles policy.

“I think quite really that it is very eye-opening,” said Jaksche. “To be honest, after I’ve built a bit of a view on the whole thing, I was like ‘this is Brailsford and Sky.’ They are not a solution; they are part of the problem.

“I googled some of Brailsford’s quotes about the MPCC and TUEs. [Note: the MPCC is an anti-doping group of teams which has clear rules against racing with cortisone. Team Sky is not a member, with Brailsford saying in the past they wouldn’t join as they wanted to impose their own stricter regulations].

“I do not know Brailsford, but his words and the facts are not consistent and I question if he could have some slight issues with the truth,” Jaksche continues. “I think he uses this British approach of marginal gains and how pseudo-intelligent they are just to play with the intelligence of the audience a little bit.

“In the past he said that TUEs have a bad reputation because of Armstrong and the abuse of them. For me, what happened with Wiggins shows how Sky is really working. As I said, for me, they are not part of the solution, they are part of the problem. Bunch of hypocrites.”

“For me, personally, I don’t trust Brailsford. In my personal opinion, when someone claims that Sky is better than the rest because they train harder and their training is more effective than doping, it already shows me how he thinks. He deliberately makes nonsense of anti-doping in order to justify the exceptional performances of his team. I don’t trust him. I think he is a very clever person and I think he tries to outsmart the audience.

“I have this idea from the past about doping and how cortisone is used, and it is very similar to what Wiggins did. Five or seven days before the Tour, taking a huge injection of cortisone. That is enough for the Tour. I am not saying that he doped but I see high similarities between how it was done ten years ago and actually how he did it in 2011, 2012.”

 

[Benotti69]

Re:

Great work as always guys. How many years ahead of this story were The Clinic 12?

BC/Sky clearly laying this at Wiggo's feet. That might lead to some interesting revelations.

Yes. Wiggo will not take kindly to being thrown under the bus.

Wonder will sponsors flee Team Wiggins.....that will be interesting.

 

[Benotti69]

Stokes and CyclingTips are killing it, great interview with Jaksche on his use of the same drug as Wiggins:

Asked what the benefits were, Jaksche said that there were clear boosts.

“The effect was extreme. Cortisone reduces inflammation in your body, number one. It is also a little bit pushy as it is a hormone. So it causes a certain hormone rush.

“On one hand you are at [race] weight and you are more willing to perform, and then on the other hand it is a strong pain killer and an inflammation killer. So your recovery is shorter and the pain you are going through is less.

“It makes you very skinny. It burns fat. If you do it at the beginning of the Tour, you are going to lose another one to two kilos in the first week. You are going to suffer less. You are going to be less tired as your recuperation is faster because of the anti-inflammatory effects. It is the old school of doping.”

http://cyclingtips.com/2016/09/jaksche-on-skys-tue-controversy-we-used-the-same-excuse-in-my-era/

The latter comment has been in mind this week. While Wiggins’ use of Triamcinolone acetonide was permitted because of his TUE, it has raised unease. That’s partly because of his 2012 autobiography My Time, in which he categorically stated that he had not used injections.

It’s also generated questions as Triamcinolone acetonide is so potent and because British Cycling – and Team Sky – have publicly stated that they have a no needles policy.

“I think quite really that it is very eye-opening,” said Jaksche. “To be honest, after I’ve built a bit of a view on the whole thing, I was like ‘this is Brailsford and Sky.’ They are not a solution; they are part of the problem.

“I googled some of Brailsford’s quotes about the MPCC and TUEs. [Note: the MPCC is an anti-doping group of teams which has clear rules against racing with cortisone. Team Sky is not a member, with Brailsford saying in the past they wouldn’t join as they wanted to impose their own stricter regulations].

“I do not know Brailsford, but his words and the facts are not consistent and I question if he could have some slight issues with the truth,” Jaksche continues. “I think he uses this British approach of marginal gains and how pseudo-intelligent they are just to play with the intelligence of the audience a little bit.

“In the past he said that TUEs have a bad reputation because of Armstrong and the abuse of them. For me, what happened with Wiggins shows how Sky is really working. As I said, for me, they are not part of the solution, they are part of the problem. Bunch of hypocrites.”

“For me, personally, I don’t trust Brailsford. In my personal opinion, when someone claims that Sky is better than the rest because they train harder and their training is more effective than doping, it already shows me how he thinks. He deliberately makes nonsense of anti-doping in order to justify the exceptional performances of his team. I don’t trust him. I think he is a very clever person and I think he tries to outsmart the audience.

“I have this idea from the past about doping and how cortisone is used, and it is very similar to what Wiggins did. Five or seven days before the Tour, taking a huge injection of cortisone. That is enough for the Tour. I am not saying that he doped but I see high similarities between how it was done ten years ago and actually how he did it in 2011, 2012.”

So funny, Sky were selling themselves at the forefront of 'newness' and apparently squeezing every little gain they could, when it was all old school. HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

 

[doperhopper]

Re:

This is the end for wiggins. No way he's gonna get out of this one.

I actually thought he wasn't gonna get caught but 3 TEU's before major GT's and lied about it too...

expecting f***g w***rs moment in 3..2..1.. or the "pseudoscience" one

 

[samhocking]

The fact remains, for a steroid response to Kenalog it has to be injected everyday. For a hayfever response that lasts 30 days it only needs injecting once.
The TUE lasts 24 hours. Kenalog is metabolised in 24 hours.

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

This is the end for wiggins. No way he's gonna get out of this one.

I actually thought he wasn't gonna get caught but 3 TEU's before major GT's and lied about it too...

expecting f***g w***rs moment in 3..2..1.. or the "pseudoscience" one

That was Wiggins's way of justifying what he was doing. Problem is he is not Lance. Armstrong would be on the front foot with this one, he would be doing interviews putting doubt in everyone's mind that the injections were legimate. Wiggins on the other hand has gone into his cave and I don't with we will see him for a long time!

As for Brailsford, he is a nasty piece of work, trying to pretend Sky were on the forefront of antidoping whilst doping his own team.