Wigans goes there. Cadence!

[goggalor]

The suffering began on the road to Saltara eight days ago when Wiggins realised he had lost time through the first half of that day’s 54-kilometre time trial. Sure, he’d hit a hole in the road, got a slow puncture he mistook for mechanical trouble and after changing bikes, the new one felt different and he lost more time. At the halfway check he was sixth, which is no place for him to be in a time trial. Driven by fear, he produced one of the performances of his career. Through the last 15 kilometres, his average power output was 477 watts, just four watts slower than his best ever 20-minute effort. This was 20 minutes on top of 50 minutes of intense effort.

“What I did in the second half of that time trial was better than the ride that won the Olympic gold medal in London,” he says. “I was in very good shape.” That effort moved him up to second place in the time trial, fourth overall and within a minute and a half of new race leader Vincenzo Nibali. But that effort also took its toll. That evening Wiggins complained of feeling like he had a cold coming on. The medical team weren’t surprised for Wiggins sat alongside Christian Knees on the bus and the German was down with a bug.

Weird, he looked sick pretty much since the TTT. Kinda stupid riding if he was not at the front on the Abruzzo hills just because he cbf.

World famous attention to detail.

 

[heart_attack_man]

No one wants to sit next to the German.

It was a good idea.

"Ok, who here is sick? Knees? Wiggo go sit real close to Christian."

This made me LOL hard. It's THIS attention to detail that sets SKY apart, for sure.

Beaten by Goggalor...

 

[BroDeal]

The suffering began on the road to Saltara eight days ago when Wiggins realised he had lost time through the first half of that day’s 54-kilometre time trial. Sure, he’d hit a hole in the road, got a slow puncture he mistook for mechanical trouble and after changing bikes, the new one felt different and he lost more time. At the halfway check he was sixth, which is no place for him to be in a time trial. Driven by fear, he produced one of the performances of his career. Through the last 15 kilometres, his average power output was 477 watts, just four watts slower than his best ever 20-minute effort. This was 20 minutes on top of 50 minutes of intense effort.

Funny enough. Sixth in a long time trial IS where Wiggins was used to before last year.

When reading that statement, "diamonds out of dogsh!t" comes to mind.

Yup. A heroic effort in the last twenty minutes was too much for him, causing him to succumb to sickness.

 

[Ripper]

Thanks M Sport. People with no skin in the game appear to remain quite relaxed about things.

How much does Wiggins actually weigh is the magic question that no one really knows.

At 68kg to 69kg, his performance at the Giro suggests a likely FTP of 6.6 w/kg - 6.7 w/kg. That would seem to be the realm of insanely suspicious power to weight, no? That would mean he could climb the big cols at closer to 7 w/kg than 6 w/kg ... a bit mutant like, no?

FYI, I am going with a 95%-96% calculation of his 20 minute effort because when you factor in:

- TT for 50 beforehand,
- Mr. Pursuit supposedly is more aerobic in killing it for 4 minutes than most, and
- At this level and with Wiggo's main weapon being the long tt, of course he's developed his FTP as much as possible.

So to suggest his FTP would be anything lower than mid-90's of his 20 minute effort would be, silly.

 

[Netserk]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ao5-isr01pbpdG9lN3FoV1diNW9Cd2s4UkE3WjVhTUE#gid=0

Between the 1st (km 26) and 2nd (km 51.5) time check Wiggins took 1'08 (68s) on Nibali. That's 2.67s/km. Wiggins effort was 32'25.

The middle part had a hill and a descent. The descent was 3.6km long. *IF* they were equal in the ascent+descent (from km 30.9 to km 37), Wiggo took 3.5s/km in the flat part. *IF* Nibali was faster in the ascent+descent, then it'd be higher than 3.5s/km.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

http://www.teamsky.com/article/0,27290,28850_8706640,00.html

“I think I rode it pretty well," he continued. "I was a bit ruffled after the bike change and didn’t get the best out of myself on that technical part of the course. It was a bit damp still as well so I was a bit cautious – especially after crashing yesterday. But from Pesaro onwards I really got into my stride and I think physically I was as good as I’ve ever been. But it is the way it is. We’ll deal with it now, but I’m pleased at the same for Alex Dowsett. It’s a brilliant start to his Grand Tour career."

Fred Grappé also finds it interesting:
https://twitter.com/fredgrappe/status/336469469964673025

 

[ChewbaccaD]

Thanks.

Certainly incredible numbers, and you'd expect Wiggins to climb a lot better than he does with sustained w/kg in that range. Not sure if I believe them though. I'm pretty certain that Sky play mind games with the press, but hey everyone around here seems to lap it up so I guess it must be real.

Back the numbers when they support your thesis and question them when they don't. Who knew science was just like politics?

 

[The Hitch]

Back the numbers when they support your thesis and question them when they don't. Who knew science was just like politics?

And the funniest thing is he claimed all along sky was telling the truth on all these important issues.

But now, on this tiny issue, where they have absolutely no motive to lie, now they are lying.

Why would someone lie about some bull**** like this but tell the truth about say Lienders

 

[DirtyWorks]

At 68kg to 69kg, his performance at the Giro suggests a likely FTP of 6.6 w/kg - 6.7 w/kg. That would seem to be the realm of insanely suspicious power to weight, no?

Maybe. The performance was relatively early in a grand tour. If you check the 'data from clean riders' thread, you'll see some big numbers there too. The big numbers in that thread come from the fact those are one-day performances.

If he made it to this week and had that power, it would be all over for everyone else. The mystery of discovering grand tour podiums midway through one's career would have to have new, ridiculous, excuses because he will have done better than ever.

IMHO, After about the 10th day of racing is when a grand tour performer shine versus good stage racers. I've got no expertise in the matter, so that might not be very accurate.

 

[Ripper]

Maybe. The performance was relatively early in a grand tour. If you check the 'data from clean riders' thread, you'll see some big numbers there too. The big numbers in that thread come from the fact those are one-day performances.

If he made it to this week and had that power, it would be all over for everyone else. The mystery of discovering grand tour podiums midway through one's career would have to have new, ridiculous, excuses because he will have done better than ever.

IMHO, After about the 10th day of racing is when a grand tour performer shine versus good stage racers. I've got no expertise in the matter, so that might not be very accurate.

I'll have to check out the thread. I thought that an FTP greater than 6.5 w/kg (e.g. 1 hour power) would be suspicious.

 

[DirtyWorks]

I'll have to check out the thread. I thought that an FTP greater than 6.5 w/kg (e.g. 1 hour power) would be suspicious.

Not all the time in every case. Definitely check that thread. Plenty of good information in there.

Sir Brad has so many other NOT NORMAL factors that there's no way he's not doping. But, on straight numbers, it's not always clear. Which is a problem with using them to compare road cyclists and events.

 

[the sceptic]

The most impossible thing to explain about Wiggo is how he suddenly could podium the 2009 tour after all the years in the gruppetto. Everyone hadnt stopped doping in 2009, since it was one of the fastest tours of the 2000s.

1. Roberto Heras | Vuelta 2004 | 6,32 W/kg
2. Lance Armstrong | Tour 2003 | 6,18 W/kg
3. Alberto Contador | Tour 2009 | 6,17 W/kg
4. Aitor Gonzalez | Vuelta 2002 | 6,16 W/kg
5. Lance Armstrong | Tour 2004 | 6,09 W/kg
6. Lance Armstrong | Tour 2005 | 6,09 W/kg
7. Ivan Basso | Giro 2006 | 6,08 W/kg
8. Lance Armstrong | Tour 2001 | 6,07 W/kg
9. Denis Mentshov | Vuelta 2005 | 6,05 W/kg
10. Denis Mentshov | Vuelta 2007 | 6,04 W/kg
11. Denis Mentshov | Giro 2009 | 6,02 W/kg
12. Damiano Cunego | Giro 2004 | 6,01 W/kg
13. Angel Casero | Vuelta 2001 | 6,00 W/kg

Who in their right mind can think that a clean Wiggo can suddenly compete against dopers i 2009, but it was impossible to compete against them in 2008, 2007 etc.

 

[Inquitus]

Who in their right mind can think that a clean Wiggo can suddenly compete against dopers i 2009, but it was impossible to compete against them in 2008, 2007 etc.

They were all soft pedalling for Lance

 

[thehog]

The most impossible thing to explain about Wiggo is how he suddenly could podium the 2009 tour after all the years in the gruppetto. Everyone hadnt stopped doping in 2009, since it was one of the fastest tours of the 2000s.


Who in their right mind can think that a clean Wiggo can suddenly compete against dopers i 2009, but it was impossible to compete against them in 2008, 2007 etc.

Vaughters belives there was more doping in 2009 than in 2008.

Its on record.

 

[thehog]

The most impossible thing to explain about Wiggo is how he suddenly could podium the 2009 tour after all the years in the gruppetto. Everyone hadnt stopped doping in 2009, since it was one of the fastest tours of the 2000s.


Who in their right mind can think that a clean Wiggo can suddenly compete against dopers i 2009, but it was impossible to compete against them in 2008, 2007 etc.

“When people are put into extreme situations, like when you see when people’s kids are trapped beneath cars and they are able to lift up that car, they can go to unknown depths of human performance,” said Matt Parker, the head of marginal gains for Team Sky. “Performances like that come out in sports once in a while, too. So when someone does something incredible, why not believe it?”

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/11/sports/cycling/11climb.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

You just have to save a child’s life in every stage. Especially in the ITTs.

 

[taiwan]

I wouldn't have believed that quote if not for the link

Something else that can save a child's life: a blood transfusion

 

[thehog]

I wouldn't have believed that quote if not for the link

Something else that can save a child's life: a blood transfusion

Who knew the Dawg wasn't prepared to save children until the 2011 Vuelta.

 

[mikehammer67]

Matt Parker, the head of marginal gains for Team Sky

lol

 

[SeriousSam]

that quote, from someone whose title is head of marginal gains. comical

 

[Alex Simmons/RST]

It wasn't a race - it was a TT.

?

TTs are pure races against the clock, and especially so for GC contenders.

Whether or not the reported power is accurate, I do not share your confidence in the methodology you've used to predict with precision a rider's FTP from the reported power, nor any of the subsequent comments in this instance to substantiate such confidence.

 

[goggalor]

The most impossible thing to explain about Wiggo is how he suddenly could podium the 2009 tour after all the years in the gruppetto. Everyone hadnt stopped doping in 2009, since it was one of the fastest tours of the 2000s.


Who in their right mind can think that a clean Wiggo can suddenly compete against dopers i 2009, but it was impossible to compete against them in 2008, 2007 etc.

Yeah, I've always thought the 2009 Tour was the dirtiest of the last few years. Probably related to a certain someone returning to the sport. Some year to make the move from the bus to tête de la course.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

I've done hard races much longer than an hour and achieved 20-min power PB in the latter stages, and I'm sure I'm not alone in having done that.

?
TTs are pure races against the clock, and especially so for GC contenders.

A TT is ridden entirely differently to a road race. There are other riders for starters. Your example of PBing 20 minutes in the "latter stages" of a road race that was longer than the hour+ of Wiggin's TT seems highly suspect for someone as knowledgeable and experienced in this area as yourself.

?
Whether or not the reported power is accurate, I do not share your confidence in the methodology you've used to predict with precision a rider's FTP from the reported power, nor any of the subsequent comments in this instance to substantiate such confidence.

If I didn't know better, I'd think your posting in this instance is an attempt to argue Wiggins' FTP is less than 95% of that 20 minute effort, and not more.

Given he did 450W for the final 64minute TT in last year's TdF, at 69kg, I am pretty darn confident his FTP is around 6.5W/kg.

 

[Krebs cycle]

Back the numbers when they support your thesis and question them when they don't. Who knew science was just like politics?

Nah, creating some crack pot theory about the limits to performance and then cherry picking numbers to match the tinfoil hat is what the clinicbots do around here day in day out.

What I do is look at the numbers first, then examine what sources of ERROR could be affecting those numbers, then make a judgement call thereafter.

PEDs or no PEDs, sustaining 30-40W more at threshold on the flat compared to a climb seems pretty unreal to me. I'm not the gullible fool who is taking that paradox seriously.

And the funniest thing is he claimed all along sky was telling the truth on all these important issues.

But now, on this tiny issue, where they have absolutely no motive to lie, now they are lying.

Why would someone lie about some bull**** like this but tell the truth about say Lienders

oh yeah coz pro cyclists NEVER lie about their weight or power numbers :rollseyes:

The more events don't suit the prevailing mentality that nothing has changed in pro cycling wrt to doping, the more outlandish and bizarre the crackpot theories get to explain it.

 

[thehog]

that quote, from someone whose title is head of marginal gains. comical

I like Lim's comment.

Perhaps he can become the Dawg's new coach?

“In and of itself, these racers are doing amazing, unbelievable things on a daily basis because they are already a tiny part of the population, a very small percentage of the world,” Lim said. “They are already different. It’s when a rider has no history of good performances, then has massive changes. Now that’s when you should raise a red flag.”

 

[Krebs cycle]

I am pretty darn confident his FTP is around 6.5W/kg.

This is your problem wiggo, you're overconfidence in the rubbish data that you have available to you. You don't even consider that it is riddled with error and assumptions.

I'm saying that the error is far too large in order to know with a high degree of confidence whether or not Wiggins' FTP is showing the variability that might be expected if one were doping. Therefore, I don't know if Wiggins is doping, and I have never said he is clean.... ever. Nada. Not once.

When you get access to all of the SRM files and lab testing results for the past 10yrs then I'll start listening to you. Until then, you've got nothing and so your wannabe expert analyses mean nothing.